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Questions about Sweden

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I see that several users are from Sweden. The more I hear news and look into them on net the more questions arise for me that I hope forum swedes could answer:

1) Apparently there is lot of self hatred among swedish people. Where does it originate from? How and when did it begin?

2) What does Sweden's army and generals have to say about the immigration insanity that is going on? Have they expressed opinion and are they involved in processes anyhow?

So far I see two theories about this great country's downfall:

1) The muslim world has bought Sweden and/or some of its elite. This would mean that part of elite are traitors of their own country and nation, and I remember in early 2000s there was news that Bin Laden has invested in dairy and other industries in Sweden.

2) Part of Sweden's elite somehow has gotten insane in their liberality due to great life and is unable to see and comprehend reality anymore.



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1: Define self-hatred. I think there are like two groups almost. The ones who don't want more mass-immigration into Sweden and dont want that many muslims. and the other one who says they have empathy and call everyone else racist. I belong to the first one. If you really want to categorise people. Wich i think is actually stupid. So you can say these two big groups have a big debate constantly going back and forth. Both groups take every oppurtunity to bash on the other.

So thats what alot of Swedes are thinking right now. We want to keep Sweden, Sweden, and not something else with political correctness. Corrupt news and shi**y goverment.

2: Well. if they do have an opinion about it. You can bet they are not allowed to say it out loud. Or they will get bashed by either of these two groups.  Also the military doesnt really have a saying in this. Its more of the police. And they say its just too much right now. They are underpaid. Too much work and they just say its chaos. They retreat from immigrant areas when they get too violent. Sometimes because maybe they want to be secure and some other times they are just too many



1. A better question would be where this myth comes from. People don't care much for Swedish culture, true, but they don't hate themselves.

Regarding Swedish culture, people on the far-left try to push the idea that it doesn't exist, as "multiculturalism is the most Swedish thing there is", which is a viewpoint that is often uplifted by the media. This, along with the fact that pretty much all political parties support feminist ideals, has allowed the nationalist party Sweden Democrats to grow into the largest political party among males, according to recent studies.

2. The remnants of our army (which has been slowly dismantled by left- and right governments through the ages to "regulate" their budgets) has expressed safety concerns, but our current socialist/feminist coalition government didn't decide to take action until late 2015, at which point it was far too late.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

1. A better question would be where this myth comes from. People don't care much for Swedish culture, true, but they don't hate themselves.

But why did they allow their country taken over by insane politicians then? I can't see it happening in any other country. Germany is already done, lets not count it. In any other country, immigration policy like that would mean instant revolution. I can't get my head around it, how can civilians be attacked and raped on daily basis yet there's no uprisings. I know that nordics are less collective but there must be point where a nation takes control to defend itself but it seems that point is far exceeded, like there should be mass protests at least. When I read that refugee centers are being burned down by nationalists I calmed down a bit but then I read that there are 55 or so areas in Sweden now that are controlled by muslims where police does not enter anymore because they get attacked instantly. If it is true, are there any plans? That's why I asked about army, it's like invaders are right under their nose but nothing is happening.

I can say about my little country Latvia that nobody wants those 'refugees' here. There were some public persons on mass media speaking about how latvian WW2 refugees were taken in by other countries and how we should do the same now but after new year cologne none of them dare to open their mouths. Anytime there is an article about this topic 99% of comments are very negative and many less bright people express direct threats on immigrant lives. Does that happen in Sweden?



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m0ney said:

I see that several users are from Sweden. The more I hear news and look into them on net the more questions arise for me that I hope forum swedes could answer:

1) Apparently there is lot of self hatred among swedish people. Where does it originate from? How and when did it begin?

2) What does Sweden's army and generals have to say about the immigration insanity that is going on? Have they expressed opinion and are they involved in processes anyhow?

So far I see two theories about this great country's downfall:

1) The muslim world has bought Sweden and/or some of its elite. This would mean that part of elite are traitors of their own country and nation, and I remember in early 2000s there was news that Bin Laden has invested in dairy and other industries in Sweden.

2) Part of Sweden's elite somehow has gotten insane in their liberality due to great life and is unable to see and comprehend reality anymore.

                              

1) Sweden has a lot of history, which explain much of our society today. We have always had a constantly evolving culture, from the Sami culture (the native population) to viking and nordic mythology, to christianity and later secularism. We also had massive emmigration during 18th and 19th century, mainly to the US. During the economic boom of the 20´s century, Sweden has gotten more and more immigration, especially in the latter half of the century. All this history has formed our society that we live in today. It is a society that has been formed by many different factors, and therefore is quite welcoming to change in different ways. So it´s not about self-hatred, but rather tolerance toward other cultures, and seeing their culture as a contribution to society.

That is not to say we don´t cherish some of the more common swedish traditions (some of which goes a couple of hundred years back in time). Christmas is huge, but not as a christian holiday. New years eve is big aswell. Halloween is big but has traditionally been celebrated in a different way than the US version. Easter is huge aswell, where kids dress up as witches and go around collecting candy. And the big one is Mid summers eve, where se drink schnaps, eat "sill", raise a celebratory pole and sing songs. We also have Cray Fish parties with funny hats and a party where we eat fermented fish.

So tradition is REALLY strong in Sweden, but a big part of that is that we should always welcome people from other countries in. I have a lot of friends from other countries, and they all love swedish traditions. But I also love to experience their traditions, because it doesn´t make my traditions any less important.

2) Sweden has been quite anti-military for the last 200 years. After WWII, our military grew, but has shrunk massively during the 21st century. There is now talks about growing the military again, which would be great. But the military has been more than just a defence force in case we are invaded. It has also helped in snow storms, flooding and such and would have been a great asset during the immigration influx we had. Overall I think the military is positive to immigration since it diversifies society which also makes the military diverse.

I think both your theories are wrong. There is no conspiracy and as a Swede, all the rethoric that we here now, is an echo of what we heard from the right-wing extremists in the 1930´s, 1990´s and now. Sweden is a very liberal country, and that will always create tension. We have a democratic system where we have 8 political parties in the parliament. One of those, the Sweden Democrats, has are very antiliberal and was a right-wing extremist party during the 90´s and has been ignored by the other parties, This upsets them, since they think that gaining 13% of the votes makes it obligatory for other parties to talk to them. Pverall, most parties are in agreement though that immigration is necessary for our economy to grow and for us to live up to our legacy of being tolerant and inclusive.



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m0ney said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

1. A better question would be where this myth comes from. People don't care much for Swedish culture, true, but they don't hate themselves.

But why did they allow their country taken over by insane politicians then? I can't see it happening in any other country. Germany is already done, lets not count it. In any other country, immigration policy like that would mean instant revolution. I can't get my head around it, how can civilians be attacked and raped on daily basis yet there's no uprisings. I know that nordics are less collective but there must be point where a nation takes control to defend itself but it seems that point is far exceeded, like there should be mass protests at least. When I read that refugee centers are being burned down by nationalists I calmed down a bit but then I read that there are 55 or so areas in Sweden now that are controlled by muslims where police does not enter anymore because they get attacked instantly. If it is true, are there any plans? That's why I asked about army, it's like invaders are right under their nose but nothing is happening.

I can say about my little country Latvia that nobody wants those 'refugees' here. There were some public persons on mass media speaking about how latvian WW2 refugees were taken in by other countries and how we should do the same now but after new year cologne none of them dare to open their mouths. Anytime there is an article about this topic 99% of comments are very negative and many less bright people express direct threats on immigrant lives. Does that happen in Sweden?

 

It all comes down to misguided benevolence. The media and government representatives tell our population that all other European countries, except Germany, are selfish and should be made to share our burden. Issues related to an excessively high immigration are "worth it", so to speak, because accepting all these people makes us the good guys.

Bolded: This used to be a thing years ago, when comments sections were still open. Most news sites support the establishment and won't let people comment anonymously, if at all, for the reasons that you mention. Which is unfortunate because the less bright individuals, as you call them, can only express themselves on websites criticizing the establishment since they still allow anonymous comments - which in turn gives readers the impression that only less bright individuals visit those websites.

Underlined: That's a disturbing thought. Burning down refugee camps won't solve any problems, which is confirmed even by key nationalist sympathizers who condemn such actions.



m0ney said:

But why did they allow their country taken over by insane politicians then? I can't see it happening in any other country. Germany is already done, lets not count it. In any other country, immigration policy like that would mean instant revolution. I can't get my head around it, how can civilians be attacked and raped on daily basis yet there's no uprisings. I know that nordics are less collective but there must be point where a nation takes control to defend itself but it seems that point is far exceeded, like there should be mass protests at least. When I read that refugee centers are being burned down by nationalists I calmed down a bit but then I read that there are 55 or so areas in Sweden now that are controlled by muslims where police does not enter anymore because they get attacked instantly. If it is true, are there any plans? That's why I asked about army, it's like invaders are right under their nose but nothing is happening.

I can say about my little country Latvia that nobody wants those 'refugees' here. There were some public persons on mass media speaking about how latvian WW2 refugees were taken in by other countries and how we should do the same now but after new year cologne none of them dare to open their mouths. Anytime there is an article about this topic 99% of comments are very negative and many less bright people express direct threats on immigrant lives. Does that happen in Sweden?

                               

People are raped on a daily basis in every country on the earth, and Sweden is sadly no exception. But you make it sound like there is some kind of open war and masses of people running around raping and murdering, and that is just insane :). About one percent of the population is exposed to sexual crime yearly, as far as reported crimes go.

And the underlined: are you serious? You think it is ok to burn down refugee centers?

And the bolded: Where do all these fantasies come from??? There are no areas controlled by muslims, the police try to treat everyone equal under the law. 2013 was a very violent year in terms on police shootings, where someone was shoot dead. The number? Three times.

In Sweden, the right-wing extremist groups are the most vocal, but represent maybe a few percent of the population (many vote for the right-wing extremist party because they are dissapointed with their own party, not because they are extremists).

EDIT: Also note that Sweden has a very broad definition of sexual crime. In terms of rape, about 70/100 000 citizens are subject to it yearly.



Sweden is becoming extremely polarized, it's hard to have any opinions somewhere down the middle since most people don't accept them. The extreme right and extreme left are helping one another grow by pushing harder and everyone caught in the middle feels like they need to choose sides, to some extent anyways.
The public debate has turned almost completely away from actual focus on issues and has become a pot-shot bonanza of semantics and moral and philosophical gobble gobble on who is the smartest, kindest, most realistic, most altruistic, economically sound, future-proof and tolerant/intolerant.

I thought Norway was polarized when I lived there; I was actually shocked to find out how bad it was here in Sweden and I often feel uncomfortable discussing things since people have incredibly thin skin and are very easily offended, especially on others' behalf, there's also a vast wellspring of double standards that people pour out on a daily basis, most without realizing it (or, at the very least admitting to it).



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Puppyroach said:                          

People are raped on a daily basis in every country on the earth, and Sweden is sadly no exception. 

And the underlined: are you serious? You think it is ok to burn down refugee centers?

And the bolded: Where do all these fantasies come from??? There are no areas controlled by muslims, the police try to treat everyone equal under the law. 2013 was a very violent year in terms on police shootings, where someone was shoot dead. The number? Three times.

That is true, but it is obvious that a large part of arab and black african immigrants are savages that canot be integrated. Women are treated like dogs and worse in the own countries. Arabs have a gang rape game Taharrush in their culture, I'm sure you heard of it after Cologne. Middle east and parts of Africa are some of the biggest shi*holes on earth, it is an objective fact, so it is no surprise that if you welcome them in your country your crime levels will increase drastically.

I read about burning down immigrant centers here http://newobserveronline.com/record-number-attacks-by-swedish-patriots/

it is called an eye for an eye. Do I support that - if I hear about immigrant crimes in my country, yes I will. We will receive 250 immigrants from EU this year, noone knows how many of them will be stone age scum, but I already hear that the existing immigrants in our single immigrant center are behaving badly, lazy bums who don't want to work and there have been reports of women harassment. If it goes beyond that it will get very ugly.

You can google on muslim controlled zones in Sweden, there's many hits https://www.google.lv/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sweden%20muslim%20controlled

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m0ney said:

That is true, but it is obvious that a large part of arab and black african immigrants are savages that canot be integrated. Women are treated like dogs and worse in the own countries. Arabs have a gang rape game Taharrush in their culture, I'm sure you heard of it after Cologne. Middle east and parts of Africa are some of the biggest shi*holes on earth, it is an objective fact, so it is no surprise that if you welcome them in your country your crime levels will increase drastically.

I read about burning down immigrant centers here http://newobserveronline.com/record-number-attacks-by-swedish-patriots/

it is called an eye for an eye. Do I support that - if I hear about immigrant crimes in my country, yes I will. We will receive 250 immigrants from EU this year, noone knows how many of them will be stone age scum, but I already hear that the existing immigrants in our single immigrant center are behaving badly, lazy bums who don't want to work and there have been reports of women harassment. If it goes beyond that it will get very ugly.

You can google on muslim controlled zones in Sweden, there's many hits https://www.google.lv/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sweden%20muslim%20controlled

                               

No, they are not savages. They are fully intelligent men, the moment you call them savages you legitimize what they do. Many of them have been brought up under extremely violent situations and often seek ways to enact that violence on other, and women and children are often the target for their crimes. Norway have shown that yoy can adress many of these issues by educating people, discussing differences in culture and what norms there are in our society. It has shown that through education, the number of sexual crimes are greatly reduced.

I suggest you look up what the term Taharrush actually mean. This is a perfect example of media being absolutely ignorant to how other cultures work. Taharrush is a terms used in arabic countries to describe sexual crimes committed by groups of people, usually men. It is therefore a term used within law enforcment, not a term for a "rape game".

You have an extremely derogatory attitude towards refugees, which is troublesome indeed. That you condone burning of reugee camps where families, kids and young men live, is even more disturbing.

Regarding these 55 areas, well they have nothing to do with immigrants as a group, but organized crime. It can be bikers, leagues that specialize in theft and vandalization, kids that rome around and, of course in some cases, immigrants. It has nothing to do with Islam and the list is quite laughable since it contain several areas where I have friends who live and that I have visited several times, and they are VERY calm. The "no-go" xone term was even used for the entire city of Birmingham by a so-called "expert" on Fox News who claimed it was a muslim-only city where none other was welcomed. i suggest you are a bit more critical when reading the news.