Danuch said:
Slimebeast said:
Of course I'm a Sweden Democrat. Yes, they were somewhat racist in the past, but first and foremost they were nationalist.
What do you mean by white-washing? Because I objected towards Puppyroach's claim that "racists" also are nasty against women and children?
The 22 year old woman that was killed by the Somalian refugee, she was a Lebanese Christian I think. What does that have to do with anything?
You say "But to out right blame every none ethnic Sweden for majority of the crimes is just a pure lie.". Now you are lying, man! I didn't say anything like that. What I am saying is, is that many of the refugees that come to Sweden belong to cultures that are chauvinistic towards women and that are much more prone to violence - meaning that less provokation, frustration, or whatever triggering factor is needed for them to resort to violence, than what is needed for a Swede to commit violence. The threshhold for violence is dangerously low, and that's a problem for society. Especially for a soceity and culture that is so sensitive and defenseless as the Swedish.
About deportations, I don't get the point. Could you explain what you mean?
I disagree with your analysis on integration. The main problem is with foreigners who won't integrate. Yes, Swedish social codes are weird and hard to learn, and it's hard to become friends with Swedes because we're playing theater, but there's so many factors that compensate for this. For example, most employers are willing to give a foreigner a chance even if it's apparent that he lacks the qualifications for a job. I see it all the time.
Swedes have the mentality that it's Sweden's fault that immigrants can't integrate. So much self blame. It's ridiculous and I'm sick and tired of this debate that has lasted for at least 30 years.
Yes, like you say. Shut the border, problem solved.
I agree that it's strange that USA doesn't do more. It's a huge country with a tough, strong culture, strong self-confidence about its position, and has a determined police force. USA has shown time and time again how excellent it is to take in and assimilate foreign people. Not sure what Americans think of this, but I think the USA has capacity to receive a large part of these refugees.
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"Of course I'm a Sweden Democrat. Yes, they were somewhat racist in the past, but first and foremost they were nationalist."
Gottcha you! :)
About White-washing:
"Wow, you seriously don't see that Swedish media hides and tries to whitewash (skönmåla) immigrant crime?"
So your true purpose is to say that most crime (se below) are in fact being commited by immigrants and media is white-washing it. Your own word literally.
About immigrants and crime, your own word:
"small percentage"? No, it's a large percentage of immigrants in Sweden that are prone to violence.
Wow, you seriously don't see that Swedish media hides and tries to whitewash (skönmåla) immigrant crime?"
Now if the number is large how large is it? Is immigrants commiting more crimes then Sweds, if so how much? You said they where commiting violence and then later that most crimes is commited by immigrants. Its not like your infront of a court for beating a woman saying "I didnt know I couldnt use violence on X gender/race because I didnt know its a crime" See my point? Especially in this case since its a crime they have commited with violence or havent the immigrant commited a crime since they only used violence? So are you saying that the somali dude just acted out violence and killed the Lebanese woman was not a crime? Please clarify.
I disagree with your analysis on integration. The main problem is with foreigners who won't integrate. Yes, Swedish social codes are weird and hard to learn, and it's hard to become friends with Swedes because we're playing theater, but there's so many factors that compensate for this. For example, most employers are willing to give a foreigner a chance even if it's apparent that he lacks the qualifications for a job. I see it all the time.
Not really its quite the opposite Swedes dont want to live close to immigrants, hence the Swedish Democrats. And they dont want to hire them i hear this at work all the time, even after 6 months of internship (free work). Why do have so many dentist, enigneers etc working as cleaners, at pizzieras, taxi drivers? If you want to integrate people we need a system for it. But we, me and you Swedes are afraid of immigrants, but we can eat thier kebabs and pizzas. Se now the problem here is how do we integrate them and get them to work and get them to pay taxes instead of the opposite. If you been a Dentist Iraq let them "praktisera" as a dentist in Sweden and learn the rest (teory lessons) in school. I dont think being a dentist in Iraq is hard then being one in Sweden, acctually the opposite. Or are they just taking our jobs? What stopping us really? We need good engineers, let them praktisera. Give them a chance, we are allready paying for them. Två fluggor i en smäll!
About deportations, I don't get the point. Could you explain what you mean?
If thier are seeking or have an assylm and commite a crime send them back.
The 22 year old woman that was killed by the Somalian refugee, she was a Lebanese Christian I think. What does that have to do with anything?
Alot! My point is even none sweds gets killed/robbed etc by immigrants not just Sweds, it is not rational thinking. You only telling half of the thruth. And you dont see a majority of Lebanese people wondering around beating Somalis? Since Lebanese/middle-eastern are immigrants they are prone to more violence!
I agree that it's strange that USA doesn't do more. It's a huge country with a tough, strong culture, strong self-confidence about its position, and has a determined police force. USA has shown time and time again how excellent it is to take in and assimilate foreign people. Not sure what Americans think of this, but I think the USA has capacity to receive a large part of these refugees.
Something we agree on, but you dont see my point. This is, believe it or not what America wants, to confuse everyone. Södertälje has taken more refugees from Iraq and Syria then hole America. Thats screwed up. As you mentioned America is better to assimilate then Sweden. Why? Because when you get an American citizenship you become American and they hire Dentist/doctors from Iraq. I have customers (work in ICA) some of them are Syrian/Assyrian/Iraq refugees I speak to them alot. They all say the opposite of what the media want us to believe about Bashar Al-Saddad and Saddam (but they agree they where controlled regims) but they gave education, safety to everyone regardless of religion or ethnicty. Not what we see today with ISIS. None of this would have happen if Saddam would have been killed. Saddam was rotten, but America helped him take power, same thing with Irans leader, Egypt and Morrocos. See where iam going with this? Theese are all the areas with problem, wonder why. Its not about helping its about money. And they (capatalism) dont give a damm how many people has to die (1,5 million Iraqies has died since the invasion of Iraq). According to my customers (Syrian/Iraq) where safe countrie. But the people werent ready for democracy and they stilla arnt, just look at Iraq. I call it a climate/ideology war. But there where extremist groups (like the one we saw in Stockholm) a small group how ruined it for everyone and they saw thier chance when America invaded Iraq especially in Syrian. We have alot of Engineers, dentists, doctors etc from theese countries.
I understand your reactions. Most people do react this way and its your human right to do so. But we cant let fear or fascist control a counrty. We have great resources (talking about our walefare system its bascially free) in this country. I meet a customer today he used to have his own dentist clinic i Syrian his been in Sweden for 3years not a single f*ck was given to help him to pursue a jobb as a dentist in Sweden. His applying everywhere no one is helping him. There should be a system!
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lol, now you're condescending too. That's a part of the mass immigration arsenal too.
So you are this sophisticated, tolerant guys who has seen the truth, while the common Swedes react by instinct and fear? Laughable. The majority of Swedes are like you - explain away foreigner, criticize Swedes - and act as if they're morally above everyone else. I despise that.
Gonna try to reply to this segment although I don't quite understand you still:
About immigrants and crime, your own word:
"small percentage"? No, it's a large percentage of immigrants in Sweden that are prone to violence.
Wow, you seriously don't see that Swedish media hides and tries to whitewash (skönmåla) immigrant crime?"
Now if the number is large how large is it? Is immigrants commiting more crimes then Sweds, if so how much? You said they where commiting violence and then later that most crimes is commited by immigrants. Its not like your infront of a court for beating a woman saying "I didnt know I couldnt use violence on X gender/race because I didnt know its a crime" See my point? Especially in this case since its a crime they have commited with violence or havent the immigrant commited a crime since they only used violence? So are you saying that the somali dude just acted out violence and killed the Lebanese woman was not a crime? Please clarify.
Fact is that people in Sweden with immigrant background are 5-10 more likely to commit crime than ethnic Swedes, depending on the type of crime. Does that answer your question? Whitewash it all you want.
I don't understand what you're trying to say when you make a distinction between violence and crime. Violence is crime.
About the Somali man who killed the Lebanese woman aid worker. It was violent crime. That's not hard to understand. Some groups are prone to violence, and violence against other people usually counts as crime.
The 22 year old woman that was killed by the Somalian refugee, she was a Lebanese Christian I think. What does that have to do with anything?
Alot! My point is even none sweds gets killed/robbed etc by immigrants not just Sweds, it is not rational thinking. You only telling half of the thruth. And you dont see a majority of Lebanese people wondering around beating Somalis? Since Lebanese/middle-eastern are immigrants they are prone to more violence!
Of course non-swedes too are victims of this violence. I didn't imply anything else. I not even once implied that violence and crime committed by people of immigrant background would be racist or targeted only against Swedes. Where the hell did you get this from?
Why do have so many dentist, enigneers etc working as cleaners, at pizzieras, taxi drivers? If you want to integrate people we need a system for it. But we, me and you Swedes are afraid of immigrants, but we can eat thier kebabs and pizzas. Se now the problem here is how do we integrate them and get them to work and get them to pay taxes instead of the opposite. If you been a Dentist Iraq let them "praktisera" as a dentist in Sweden and learn the rest (teory lessons) in school. I dont think being a dentist in Iraq is hard then being one in Sweden, acctually the opposite. Or are they just taking our jobs? What stopping us really? We need good engineers, let them praktisera. Give them a chance, we are allready paying for them. Två fluggor i en smäll
Sorry, but this is naive. These questions were asked in the mid 80's already. I'm gonna adress them:
* that there are so many highly educated among taxi drivers is a myth
* those who are educated and driving taxis and making pizzas, usually have an education that is incompatible with the Swedish labor market. Engineer and economist from the third world, it's very hard to make those useful here. It's different with doctors, it only takes a couple of years to make a third word doctor be able to work in Sweden, and thus we see many many foreign doctors in Sweden. Stop blaming Swedes when the problem is complicated.
* fact is that the vast majority of immigrants don't even have a university eductation.
I have customers (work in ICA) some of them are Syrian/Assyrian/Iraq refugees I speak to them alot. They all say the opposite of what the media want us to believe about Bashar Al-Saddad and Saddam (but they agree they where controlled regims) but they gave education, safety to everyone regardless of religion or ethnicty. Not what we see today with ISIS. None of this would have happen if Saddam would have been killed. Saddam was rotten, but America helped him take power, same thing with Irans leader, Egypt and Morrocos. See where iam going with this? Theese are all the areas with problem, wonder why. Its not about helping its about money. And they (capatalism) dont give a damm how many people has to die (1,5 million Iraqies has died since the invasion of Iraq). According to my customers (Syrian/Iraq) where safe countrie. But the people werent ready for democracy and they stilla arnt, just look at Iraq. I call it a climate/ideology war.
Yes, perhaps it was a mistake to kill Saddam but that doesn't explain Syria and Assad or Somalia, Erithrea, Afghanistan etc. Don't blame everything on the west only because an immigrant told you so.
I have had tons of immigrant friends through the years and a common factor they shared was that they all blame everyone else for their problems.
(varför är svennar alltid så stolta för att de känner invandrare? Patetiskt)
