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Forums - Politics Discussion - Religion is the devil's work

Based on the thread title alone:

If religion is the devil's work, that means the devil exists. If the devil exists that means god exists. If god exists and is the opposite of the devil, then god's work is to oppose religion. Rol is opposing religion, therefore Rol is god.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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AlfredoTurkey said:
akhmenhawk said:
FunFan said:
Crazy people will be crazy regardless. Religion at worst is a scapegoat and if it didn't exist it wouldn't stop crazy people from being crazy. Crazy people will always find a reason to be crazy.

 


i dont think anyone is arguing against that. But we cannot deny, that many large groups of people could not have been influenced under evil pretenses had it not been for religion.

 

You could say the same thing about everything. Organized religion has it's flaws and it has it's positives just like almost everything else on this earth.

 

That's such a cop-out answer though. Religion is a tool. A tool for getting people to do what you want, and it's up to whoever holds that tool to decide whether it's used for peace, or used for war.

Now, if you look at religion like that than it's very easy to say that it's good and bad depending on how it's used. However, religion is powerful because it preys on people. It preys on the worst parts of who we are. Our fears, our greed, our egos...

"You have to live and act in a certain way, and if you do, you get to go to a paradise after you die! But if you don't act they way "god" says to, you suffer immeasurably, forever."

"Man was created in Gods image, and the Earth belongs to gods children"

On a more personal note, I don't  trust anything that discourages people from asking questions, or furiously, and often violently rallies against progress because shows one of it's teachings to be incorrect.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

RolStoppable said:
MegaManX said:

I could say the same thing about governments, dictators, socialism/communism, any militant with access to gun or a silver tongue. All these institutions are involved in executions, assassinations, genocides, murder of thousands for land, 6 million jews in Germany with Nazis, pick a country in the middle east, Assad or whoever the flavor of the month is, yeah let's elect a dictator, know who dictators hate and silence? Religion. So when you have Castro doing all that good in Cuba, you can pick a genocide over the years and relate it back to someone elected.  All these all happened recently, when we are more "civilizied' and less religious, and yet these continue happening to this day in places with no Christanity.   Don't worry about the Crusades 1000+ years ago and just ignore the causes of it.

And if the world is getting less religious (hilarious that you pick Catholics who do the most charity and help the poor regardless of race) than we should be seeing less crime and death and hatred right? Let me go check the news and see how much better things are...whoops guess not, crime is up, rapes, mass murders, how's the great progressive Obama doing these past 7 years, oh that bad. Maybe the further we get from religion the worse things will get as people abandon basic morals and values that Christianity teaches.

How do you feel about Islam, which seems to be the religion most associated with violence these days?

Not familiar with their teachings, but it seems obvious that it is commonly used to push people to perform disturbing crimes against other humans. Likewise, it seems obvious that if the belief in Islam on the whole weakens, crimes and intolerance would go down. You know, just like nowadays Christianity is neutered to the point that it doesn't have the same pull as in centuries of the past.

Religion isn't bad per se, but it's prone to be abused and has been repeatedly abused.

 

So if religion is prone to being abused as you just said, than you are saying that man is contorting the message and manipulating it to cause harm, then it's not religion that is the devil's work, but those men who use religion to their own evil intentions, right?  And if those people using the religion are not following the doctrines of the religion, then they don't represent the religion, and the beliefs aren't the problem.  Really it sounds like it's not the religion that's at fault by your own admission, but those explotiating it.  As you say, religion isn't bad.  

Because really I could say that dictators and governements are the devil's work because I would say more people die in wars between countries, pick a war or conflict in the last 1000 years.  More than likely the cause of it was, territory or some power hungry elected leader, some government using real or faked reason to invade or slavery.  Nothing to do with religion, God was not the reason or cause for these conflicts.  The only deaths associated with religion that I can think of in the last 500 plus years are from those using Islam between warring factions and those that want to spread Islam at the cost of those who refuse.  And even those aren't representative of Islam.  So really unless you can point to where Judiasm, Islam, Christanity or any other religion directly supports the horrors of the world, it sounds to me like you are scapegoating religion for the wrongs of the world.  



MegaManX said:
RolStoppable said:
MegaManX said:

I could say the same thing about governments, dictators, socialism/communism, any militant with access to gun or a silver tongue. All these institutions are involved in executions, assassinations, genocides, murder of thousands for land, 6 million jews in Germany with Nazis, pick a country in the middle east, Assad or whoever the flavor of the month is, yeah let's elect a dictator, know who dictators hate and silence? Religion. So when you have Castro doing all that good in Cuba, you can pick a genocide over the years and relate it back to someone elected.  All these all happened recently, when we are more "civilizied' and less religious, and yet these continue happening to this day in places with no Christanity.   Don't worry about the Crusades 1000+ years ago and just ignore the causes of it.

And if the world is getting less religious (hilarious that you pick Catholics who do the most charity and help the poor regardless of race) than we should be seeing less crime and death and hatred right? Let me go check the news and see how much better things are...whoops guess not, crime is up, rapes, mass murders, how's the great progressive Obama doing these past 7 years, oh that bad. Maybe the further we get from religion the worse things will get as people abandon basic morals and values that Christianity teaches.

How do you feel about Islam, which seems to be the religion most associated with violence these days?

Not familiar with their teachings, but it seems obvious that it is commonly used to push people to perform disturbing crimes against other humans. Likewise, it seems obvious that if the belief in Islam on the whole weakens, crimes and intolerance would go down. You know, just like nowadays Christianity is neutered to the point that it doesn't have the same pull as in centuries of the past.

Religion isn't bad per se, but it's prone to be abused and has been repeatedly abused.

 

So if religion is prone to being abused as you just said, than you are saying that man is contorting the message and manipulating it to cause harm, then it's not religion that is the devil's work, but those men who use religion to their own evil intentions, right?  And if those people using the religion are not following the doctrines of the religion, then they don't represent the religion, and the beliefs aren't the problem.  Really it sounds like it's not the religion that's at fault by your own admission, but those explotiating it.  As you say, religion isn't bad.  

Because really I could say that dictators and governements are the devil's work because I would say more people die in wars between countries, pick a war or conflict in the last 1000 years.  More than likely the cause of it was, territory or some power hungry elected leader, some government using real or faked reason to invade or slavery.  Nothing to do with religion, God was not the reason or cause for these conflicts.  The only deaths associated with religion that I can think of in the last 500 plus years are from those using Islam between warring factions and those that want to spread Islam at the cost of those who refuse.  And even those aren't representative of Islam.  So really unless you can point to where Judiasm, Islam, Christanity or any other religion directly supports the horrors of the world, it sounds to me like you are scapegoating religion for the wrongs of the world.  

 

First off, the world is much, much, much safer than it has ever been.

And you want to know why people aren't killing in the name of Christ anymore? Because religion is much weaker than it used to be. There was a time when the Pope could command Kings to wage wars or could have people killed for saying or believing the wrong thing. Religion ruled peoples lives. At it's peak, Christianity was to Europe what Islam is to the Middle East today, it permeated everything. Now? If the Pope says something that doesn't line up with a Christians political beliefs they denounce the Pope. Christanity is having trouble getting people to take an hour out of their Sunday to go to church, forget conducting a crusaide.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

pearljammer said:
Illusion said:

Now I could stoop to the level of this thread and take this opportunity to point out all of the heinous things that athiests have done over the past couple of centuries, but I am not going to. I believe, like Pope Francis, that athiests can also be good people and if they seek the truth then God can and will work in their lives.

There is a distinct difference between atheists who have committed awful evils and atheists who commit awful evils in the name of atheism. The latter, I'm sure, is largely disproportionate when compared to religions.

I agree that it's hard to kill in the name of atheism but that is because atheism defines itself by the lack of something.  Hatred towards religion by atheists, however, has lead to many great evils (look at how Christians were treated in the USSR or how they are being persecuted in communist China today).  I see this same hatred towards religion on this thread, and while it hasn't gotten to point of outright persecution I promise if you and American society continues to focus on the negative sides of religion and forcibly ignore the positives it's only going to be a matter of time until your hatred is great enough to take away another person's freedom and possibly even their life.





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Normchacho said:
MegaManX said:
RolStoppable said:
MegaManX said:

I could say the same thing about governments, dictators, socialism/communism, any militant with access to gun or a silver tongue. All these institutions are involved in executions, assassinations, genocides, murder of thousands for land, 6 million jews in Germany with Nazis, pick a country in the middle east, Assad or whoever the flavor of the month is, yeah let's elect a dictator, know who dictators hate and silence? Religion. So when you have Castro doing all that good in Cuba, you can pick a genocide over the years and relate it back to someone elected.  All these all happened recently, when we are more "civilizied' and less religious, and yet these continue happening to this day in places with no Christanity.   Don't worry about the Crusades 1000+ years ago and just ignore the causes of it.

And if the world is getting less religious (hilarious that you pick Catholics who do the most charity and help the poor regardless of race) than we should be seeing less crime and death and hatred right? Let me go check the news and see how much better things are...whoops guess not, crime is up, rapes, mass murders, how's the great progressive Obama doing these past 7 years, oh that bad. Maybe the further we get from religion the worse things will get as people abandon basic morals and values that Christianity teaches.

How do you feel about Islam, which seems to be the religion most associated with violence these days?

Not familiar with their teachings, but it seems obvious that it is commonly used to push people to perform disturbing crimes against other humans. Likewise, it seems obvious that if the belief in Islam on the whole weakens, crimes and intolerance would go down. You know, just like nowadays Christianity is neutered to the point that it doesn't have the same pull as in centuries of the past.

Religion isn't bad per se, but it's prone to be abused and has been repeatedly abused.

 

So if religion is prone to being abused as you just said, than you are saying that man is contorting the message and manipulating it to cause harm, then it's not religion that is the devil's work, but those men who use religion to their own evil intentions, right?  And if those people using the religion are not following the doctrines of the religion, then they don't represent the religion, and the beliefs aren't the problem.  Really it sounds like it's not the religion that's at fault by your own admission, but those explotiating it.  As you say, religion isn't bad.  

Because really I could say that dictators and governements are the devil's work because I would say more people die in wars between countries, pick a war or conflict in the last 1000 years.  More than likely the cause of it was, territory or some power hungry elected leader, some government using real or faked reason to invade or slavery.  Nothing to do with religion, God was not the reason or cause for these conflicts.  The only deaths associated with religion that I can think of in the last 500 plus years are from those using Islam between warring factions and those that want to spread Islam at the cost of those who refuse.  And even those aren't representative of Islam.  So really unless you can point to where Judiasm, Islam, Christanity or any other religion directly supports the horrors of the world, it sounds to me like you are scapegoating religion for the wrongs of the world.  

 

First off, the world is much, much, much safer than it has ever been.

And you want to know why people aren't killing in the name of Christ anymore? Because religion is much weaker than it used to be. There was a time when the Pope could command Kings to wage wars or could have people killed for saying or believing the wrong thing. Religion ruled peoples lives. At it's peak, Christianity was to Europe what Islam is to the Middle East today, it permeated everything. Now? If the Pope says something that doesn't line up with a Christians political beliefs they denounce the Pope. Christanity is having trouble getting people to take an hour out of their Sunday to go to church, forget conducting a crusaide.

The world being safe has to do with police, military, developed cities, not having to hunt for dinner and having cured basic diseases and understanding sanitation.  Still people are dying everyday, murder, rape, mass shootings, prisons are overcrowded, we are not some Bill and Ted utopia or something.  The world is still a cruel and uncaring place.  I don't see how if religion is on the decline the world isn't getting better as some here are saying.  If religion teaches peace, and to help your fellow man, 10 commandments, etc, and people follow those basic common sense ideals, than what is the harm in that.  If we elect a leader who launches a nuclear warhead, that is a 1000 times worse.  Plus it's government and not religion that is responsible for the death penalty and aborting babies, not religion.  

 

And I don't believe or care about heresay from something that happened a 1000 years ago.  The crusades are for another time, no pope following the religion would do those sort of things.  I don't know what the past has to do with the OP's message of today, the ills of the world are not caused by religion but in spite of it.  Are laws are largely based on Christanity anyway.  I am not going to generalize a religion based on the actions of a few, but I know a lot of younger people on here like to lump everything together.  It's like all the people that lump all of a political party together cause Trump says this or Hilary said that.  Christanity is only in decline in America where the media tries to bury and mock it, it's still respected in other parts of the world, its not as if there are only 30 people in the world who believe in it and Islam is on the surge, so religion is still the majority so I'm not to worried.  

But also understand that being religious does not mean you let someone murder you because it's wrong to kill.  There are times, war or self defense where it is accepted.  Of course I don't doubt that men of power could distort a message, it is not reflective of thousands of years of believers.  But if you think that the world is becoming better as religion declines, I think you are in for a lot of disappointment.  War and death is in man's nature, I'm more afraid of the general in charge of the army than the lady helping out at the soup kitchen, but that's just me.  





spurgeonryan said:
I like our gun laws. If people could not defend themselves from the criminals, then we would be screwed. Remember, we have Mexico right below us. I am sure a criminal is not just buying their guns from a gun store. There is a lot of paperwork and identification you must have. Along with passing background checks in most states. But Mexico is where drugs and I am sure anything else easily gets illegally transported to us. Plus we are not Canada. We like guns.

Oh, and Religion is cool!

 


Canadian's love guns as well...



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

Normchacho said:
AlfredoTurkey said:
akhmenhawk said:
FunFan said:
Crazy people will be crazy regardless. Religion at worst is a scapegoat and if it didn't exist it wouldn't stop crazy people from being crazy. Crazy people will always find a reason to be crazy.

 


i dont think anyone is arguing against that. But we cannot deny, that many large groups of people could not have been influenced under evil pretenses had it not been for religion.

 

You could say the same thing about everything. Organized religion has it's flaws and it has it's positives just like almost everything else on this earth.

 

That's such a cop-out answer though. Religion is a tool. A tool for getting people to do what you want, and it's up to whoever holds that tool to decide whether it's used for peace, or used for war.

Now, if you look at religion like that than it's very easy to say that it's good and bad depending on how it's used. However, religion is powerful because it preys on people. It preys on the worst parts of who we are. Our fears, our greed, our egos...

"You have to live and act in a certain way, and if you do, you get to go to a paradise after you die! But if you don't act they way "god" says to, you suffer immeasurably, forever."

"Man was created in Gods image, and the Earth belongs to gods children"

On a more personal note, I don't  trust anything that discourages people from asking questions, or furiously, and often violently rallies against progress because shows one of it's teachings to be incorrect.

 

It's not a cop out. It's the truth. You focus on the negatives of anything and you will have nothing but negative things to say about it. 



It is true that Religion has brought more pain and suffering to this world than possibly anything else out there; call it human nature, call it extremists, call it whatever you want, but no one with a slight degree of common sense can deny that, a simple history class will answer that.

As someone who was raised a Catholic but later (at the age of 15 to be exact) stop believing in the Church and God, it still baffles me how people can still follow a church...I'm not talking specifically about Religion but the actual institution.

Most churches are the same as any corporation or company out there, their clients are the followers; the more followers you have, the more money you generate, simple as that. I can only speak about the Catholic in specific, but I still can't understand how can someone still go to a place where so many people have suffered..again a quick history lesson will show how much pain the Catholic church has brought, from wars, torture, lack of free will, pedophile priests, money laundry, and the list goes on and on. Obviously not every people that goes to church is bad, anyone who says that is a complete idiot, but just because you fell "at peace" or you are "helping the community" it doesn't excuse what the church did and is still doing to this very day, where the higher ups are more corrupt than all politicians in world combined.

Now for Religion itself have similar opinions, but I think I brought myself enough flame with the comment from above.

Would there be violence without the Church or Religion? of course not, but those two are arguably the most common denomitor in big scale conflicts thoughtout history.



Nintendo and PC gamer

Maybe this was mentioned somewhere, but I figured this was worth 2 cents... Again.

To the OP, read Von Beck, by Michael Moorcock.  

It basically suggests that men's evil deeds are a misunderstanding of the Bible, or a product of their own darkness. In fact, the devil has simply been in woe since his fall from heaven and only serves to do good, as he would hope to seek the ability to speak to god once more. 

In doing these things, the devil has saved us from ourselves more than once. 

That is over simplifying the book, but at its core, is a fascinating piece of fiction. Check it out.

Alright, going back under my rock.