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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Macronix Claims NX Releasing This Year, They are Providing Memory Slots

SJReiter said:
PerturbedKitty said:
spemanig said:
PerturbedKitty said:

 

Personally, I don't think reggie would be that cryptic. I think he was using simple language that we would understand. He knows there is a conversation about physical vs digital and when you take what he said in thay context, it's very clear he is talking about physical media. 

I understand your point about CDs vs games, but ihonestly don't think that's why CDs still sell. why are people still buying CDs? Its because they prefer physical media. Simple as that. 

Wait, do people still actually buy CDs though? Genuinely curious about this. I wouldn't even know where to buy a CD nowadays lol



What zorg said. Personally, I like CDs.





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Hiku said:
bigtakilla said:

More than likely to move save data from home console to handheld. I doubt this would be the home consoles main source of memory though. 

There is speculation that all games for NX will run on these cards (home and hh) so it's far from impossible. That seems rather odd too though. No matter how cheap they are, they're still more expensive than a dual layer bluray. And it would be far cheaper to not habe physical games at all. 

When the text was translated by a Chinese guy on GAF (the text in the OP used Google translate), the word console was used. Not sure how accurate that is, but either way, if carts are to be used for the console, I would think it's so that people will be able to use it in either the console or the handheld. If the console uses disc media, you wont be able to put it into the handheld. (Unless Nintendo come up with a smaller sized disc, but I don't think thats a good idea).

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of digital-only, but I don't find it realistic today, or a successful strategy if Nintendo choses to go that route.
Their prevous console had a bare minimum of storage space, and the people who wanted digital only would have to buy an externnal HDD. It was a similar situation on 3DS. Going from that directly to digital-only doesn't sound likely to me. Even Sony and MS, who have been accomodating towards their digital userbase for the past 10 years, wouldn't do that. MS certainly wanted to "ease" people into it with their DRM policies. But even amidst all that, their games would still be sold physically as well.

spemanig said:

I'm not remotely worried of that happening.

It isn't too soon. Every single electonics media platform has a digital only offering aside from consoles. Nintendo will fix that. They've been all but confirming it for the past two years. Retailers would get over it like they got over every other digital only platform.

Here's what Miyamoto said in June 2014 on the subject of what, in hindsight, is obviously the NX:

"So, particularly with digital downloads now and the idea that you're downloading the right to play a game, that opens up the ability to have multiple platform digital downloads where you can download on one and download on another. Certainly from a development standpoint there is some challenge to it, because if you have two devices that have different specs and you're being told to design in a way that the game runs on both devices, then that can be challenging for the developer—but if you have a more unified development environment and you're able to make one game that runs on both systems instead of having to make a game for each system, that's an area of opportunity for us."

Miyamoto is literally saying that the unified platform is coming to light because of the advent digital downloads.

The answer to offering some things in digital form only would be to offer some things in digital form only. Not everything.
You can still buy movies, books or even music in physical form. There may be some exceptions, but that's not the norm. Even in the music industry, the revenue for digital music didn't pass the revenue for physical format sales until 2015. And it wasn't by a long shot. $6.85 billion vs $6.82 billion.
So that's still around 50/50.
In the console industry, we're looking at something like a 20/80 split. And those 20% don't translate into 20% of people who buy digital only. I buy some games digitally, so I factor into that number as well.

As for what Miyamoto said, that the unified platform came to light because of digital downloads is your interpritation. What he said was that it opens up the ability for multi-platform digital downloads. Which already exists today between systems that do not have a unified platform. I interpret this as one factor they intend to make use of for their unified platform. Not that this means it revolvs around digital media only. And the reason I think he used this particular example is because it's something that exists today so that people can relate to the situation better. Namely the other parts you highlighted. Why isn't this the case for most digital downloads? He highlights the issue of how each version of the game has to be reprogrammed to fit the different architecture and specs of the different platforms. When you download Resident Evil Remake for PS3, it also lets you download the game for PS4. But that's not the same version of the game. It's another version developed separately and specifically for PS4. And that's what I think he is highlighting here. With a unified platform sharing the same type of architecture, this wouldn't be a concern, and the games could be adjusted as simply as they can between two PC's with different specs.
The reason I believe he used digital downloads as an example is because they are currently the only form of "cross-platform buy" on consoles/handhelds today. Nintendo and Sony console storage media have never been compatible with their handheld system. And there has never been a reason for it, since the the games wouldn't work natively on the other system anyway.

spemanig said:
RolStoppable said:

The lion share of video game software sales comes from physical media. Ignoring the majority of the market by going digital-only won't be perceived as a positive aspect by third parties.

And no, physical media does not go against a unified platform.

PC begs to differ. Mobile begs to differ. Digital is growing on consoles faster every year. People aren't buying physical. They're buying games. Those sales don't just evaporate on a digital only platform - they migrate. If the NX offers only one option, consumers will simply adapt that option, especially when it's more convenient like with digital.

Are you joking? Third parties want all digital. No used games. Profit forever. Higher profit margin because they don't have to manufacture anything.

Yes, it absolutely does.

When people buy physical, they tend to do so out of preference. And the reasons for that can vary a lot. It's not that most of them are unaware that they can opt to go digital. The question is how many of them can be forced into digital only. If it was a simple matter, Sony, MS, the music, movie and book industry, etc, would have done so already. I agree that third parties would love digital only. No storage or shelf space needed, no manufacturing costs, low distribusion cost, etc. Yet physical still remains an option that's very commonly chosen.
Steam have been successful in this, but this is the result of many years of making the transition, along with very low sale prices even for new games, and all the while physical copies on PC games still exist for the most part for people who want to go that route.
We saw what happened when MS even tried to force people into their DRM plan, which had everything to do with moving towards digital only down the line. PS4 pre-orders ran circles around XB1, and they're still feeling the effects of the backlash today, in spite of dropping all those plans.

spemanig said:
shikamaru317 said:

PC was eased into digital over the course of a several years, it wasn't an overnight "sorry, you have to buy digital now". Even now physical is still an option on PC for many of the bigger games. 

Also, as an Xbox fan I surely haven't forgtten what happened to MS when they tried to announce a DRM heavy console that would hurt things like used game sales and rentals. Console gamers want things like used games and rentals, that's why MS got so much hate after the initial Xbox launch. Do you really want to see Nintendo go through what MS went through?

The iPod didn't. It was absolutely an overnight "sorry, you have to buy digital now," and now Apple is inarguably the most powerful tech company in the world because of it.

The NX will be the same, only it won't be even remotely risky because PC, mobile, and ebooks have been getting people ready for it for over a decade.

I've already address the flimsy MS argument far to many times here to be worth going into it again. When rumors arise that the NX turns into a brick where you can't play games your console after 24 hours of not being connected to the internet, we'll talk about the situation being even remotely coparable. Until then, it's not.

Digital media for portable music meant not having to lug around those huge portable CD players, or the casette tape players that couldn't skip tracks. Music would also lag when you made sudden movements with a portable CD player, making it very unpracticle for having with your when you're out running, besides its huge size. Along with being able to easily download your music for free, these conveniences were the biggest benefits from MP3 players.
Not much of this applies to consoles or handhelds, aside from being able to carry multiple games with you on a handheld gaming device.

So of course people will prefer the format that doesn't force them to lug around huge CD players or cassette tape players with all the drawbacks that came with them. There was no reason to sell anything but digital for mp3 players. Even for home use, mp3 is very convenient nowadays.
That said, as I already mentioned, people still buy physical albums in droves. Just not to bring it with them on the go.

Another big benefit from mp3 purchases is being able to pick and chose exactly which songs you want from an album, and which ones you don't want. You may only be interested in three tracks from Kanye's new album. Ok, 3 dollars. Previously you could buy the singles released from these artists, but they may not be all the tracks you want from the album.
While there are some video games sold in an episodic manner, or have extra DLC content, there's no directly similar benefit to be found in videogames since most games are designed in a way where just playing one small portion of it without the context of the rest doesn't give the experience you expect from a game.

Obviously, we both know all this, and you've still formed your opinion around this and believe Nintendo will go all digital.
For me, these things tell me that digital-only would be a big mistake, and I'm not expecting it for the NX.

But there is one thing you said which I don't understand, that maybe you could explain to me?

"The amount of consumers Nintendo will gain in this move will exponencially eclipse the insignificant few consumers who will refuse to buy an all digital platform no matter what games they want comes out for it purely on principal."

Why would you gain consumers by limiting their purchase options to digital only, rather than offering both options (physical or digital)?
I don't see anything being gained from excluding the option of physical purchases in terms of consumers. It's not like someone will brush off a game that's available in both physical and digital form, but then all of a sudden be interested in it if it's only available in digital form. In that sense it's certain that they will only lose consumers, when considering this move alone. Not gain a single one.
The only gains to be made here when it comes to the consumers will come from the other aspects of NX and how they handle their games. Will they work on multiple platforms? Etc. But as mentioned, this is possible with both physical and digital games being made available.

I just want to acknowledge your post because you bring up some good points. There's just no way I can reply to all of that with the amount of detail and attention it deserves without going crazy with the stress of the next impending counter-counter argument. I read everything though, so I just didn't want you to think I'm ignoring you lol.



I strongly believe the new NX system will use tiny license only cartridges and have extremely small amounts of data storage.

I.e. the console itself has lets say 8 slots. Each slot can take a security chip and these security chips are sold at retail and can be freely resold through retail but without the security chip in the slot you cannot run the game.

The games themselves are downloaded.

At the moment you buy a ps4/xbone game and often you put in the disc and it starts transferring data to the hard drive plus it downloads a huge patch. It's reliant on the internet for the full experience but you can run the game without an internet connection but there may be issues.

With the NX you simply insert a tiny security cartridge and the game is downloaded.

The huge advantage is very low costs to manufacture. The console can hold digital rights for many games at once so you don't have to keep getting up to change discs. They are small and cheap so good profit at retail and retailers will love them plus there is s/hand resell.

The console itself is cheaper to manufacture as it 8 cartridge slots is a lot cheaper to manufacture than an optical drive.

The console will still have a hard drive and of course you will still have digitally purchased games. The security chips will be tiny so they can be used on both the home console and handheld. Something like 8 slots in the console and only 1 in the handheld possibly.

Surely this is the logical approach to a situation where Nintendo cannot afford to lose retail but want good margins in both retail games and the consoles themselves. It free's up money for better tech in both devices.

There are no losers except those without an internet connection.

Retailers could even provide a super fast download service. I.e. you buy the security chip and they also download it directly to your handheld so you can use it straight away.

I really think there is a strong chance of this happening it just makes total sense all round.



SJReiter said:
PerturbedKitty said:

I understand your point about CDs vs games, but ihonestly don't think that's why CDs still sell. why are people still buying CDs? Its because they prefer physical media. Simple as that. 

Wait, do people still actually buy CDs though? Genuinely curious about this. I wouldn't even know where to buy a CD nowadays lol.

 

I love buying CDs for my colleagues who still favor them. "Sure I can order it for you without shipping costs." 

Thanks to Amazon Auto-Rip I get that album instantly for free in my own digital collection and can hand over the unopened CD to my colleage 1 or 2 days later. ;)



Werix357 said:
JEMC said:
Werix357 said:
JEMC said:
Werix357 said:

 

Yeah AMD has an ARM chip coming out but the first ARM CPU's are being made for servers not sure they have any other plans for them yet.

AMD/Nintendo wouldn't have many problems using those ARM processors for a console as they use the known A57 chips

http://www.amd.com/Documents/A-Heirofalcon-Product-Brief.pdf

 

They could go for the 4-core version and get rid of the extra stuff that's not needed on a console

I don't think it's that easy.



Well, it's not "easy" to pick up THAT processor and remove the parts you don't want, but AMD could develop a "simple", reference based processor based on those same A57 chips for Nintendo.

It's posible but unlikely for this year as AMD are apparently conscentrating on ZEN first.

There's a difference between concentrating on something and doing only that.

Besides, AMD announced that they had won a design win for a console all the way back to December 2014

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/amd-hints-at-a-new-gaming-platform-to-be-announced-in-2016

so whatever Nintendo uses, AMD has been working on that for quite some time.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

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Hiku said:

No, it's understandable. A side effect of coming into the discussion late is the wall of text. lol We've never had this discussion though, so I wanted to at least express why I've reached the conclusions I have had on this matter. I think we have discussed things enough times to know that the other person has probably done their reasearch well enough to not change their mind, so there wouldn't be much point to the counter-counter-counter argument replies other than perhaps providing some info the other may have missed. I appreciate the notice though, and that you read it.

Although I'm curious about two things.
One is the last question I brought up. I'm assuming I either missunderstood you, or when you said "this move", you weren't specifically refering to just the digital only aspect, but Nintendo's plan with the NX as a whole?
Or perhaps I'm missing something. Are there any benefits for the consumers that are only possible with digital-only?
Because the only direct benefits I see from digital-only as opposed to digital and physical, is for the devolpers/publishers regarding logistics. Then it becomes a question of whether or not the developers/publishers want to pass on the savings to the consumers by offering cheaper prices. It's not a guarantee, but it's certainly a possibility.

The second thing is regarding your interpretation of what Miyamoto meant with his statement.
Are you sure that your interpretation is the only plausible one, or could mine also be possible?

You don't have to go into detail explaining why if you don't want to. A simple Yes or No will suffice as well.
I just wanted to know because you sounded very certain, and I'm curious how dead set you are on that.

Yeah, that was my mistake. When I said "this move," I was talking about the broad brand transition from the Wii/DS brand to the NX brand. I wasn't referring to digital specifically, though it's obvious to me in hindsight how context made that unclear. I was just referring to all the changes that NX is making to Nintendo's game platform environment that will undoubtably make for an extremely apealing line of hardware. I was saying that that would get so many people to buy the NX that Nintendo won't care about the, what I believe to be neglidgable amount of, people who won't buy the NX, even when they like everything else about it from a hardware and software and OS POV, solely on the principle being against digital media.

There are benefits specifically to digital over physical like having all your games instantly accessible on the console without taking up space and not needing to constantly switch disks/carts in an out, which would be especially cumbersome on the kind of unified platform being described, but that's not what I was addressing in that paragraph.

And yes, I think that's the only plausible one, genuinely. I understand your point, but I honestly think you're misunderstanding what "multiple-platform digital downloads" is referring to here, because the ResiRev example you bring up is not what that is at all. I think you're thinking of "multiple-platform" in the same way with think of multiplat games, which isn't what he's referring to. The PS3 version of ResiRev is a different, indepentent game from the PS4 version of ResiRev. On the other hand, the Windows version of ResiRev on a PS3 level PC is the exact same game as the Windows version of ResiRev on a PS4 level PC. They just run at different settings. He's referring to games built like the latter. What he's referring to is "multiple platform" games like the Minecraft iOS where one game build is then optimized for different hardware SKUs of the same firmware platform. That's something that has not been done at all on consoles because there has never been a family of consoles build to work that way, and that's something that would be severely hampered by physical media.



RolStoppable said:

But how exactly? PC games have shipped physical media for decades with assets for different settings, so why would it be a problem for NX?

You're only expected to own one PC at a time. You don't buy every game on PC with the primary selling point and expectation of the platform being that they can all run, heavily optimized, seamlessly between multiple hardware SKUs that are meant to complement each other while each having key fundemental and distinct differences in play experience and environment like with the NX.



RolStoppable said:

I don't understand your logic.

If I bought a physical PC game in the past, the same copy could run at different settings on my own PC and the PCs of my friends. Or if I upgraded my PC, I could switch to higher settings without having to buy the game a second time. It all came on the same disc, after all.

Regardless of the NX device you plugged your card into, the device would recognize which assets and features it had to access from the card in order to offer the optimized experience.

...But you're only expected to own one PC at a time, like I just said. You aren't expected to constantly switch between playing your entire library of games on your PC and your friends PC or your old PC and your new PC. That was never intended to be a pleasent, convenient, complementary, or superior experience like the way Nintendo is positioning the NX platform. Doing all that is a huge pain in the ass on PC if your entire library is physical, and would be a completely unreasonable pain in the ass on NX.



This thread should have a title change xD



I suspect even if NX has a physical card format, it'll largely be a "placeholder" format in the sense that you'll plug it in and then you'll have to download like 70% of the game from the internet. Hell, it's even like this for disc games. This will allow devs to use the cheaper, lower end cards.