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Twilight princess HD actually looks a lot better

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Twilight princess HD actually looks a lot better

I never had, and still don't, have a problem with the polygon count in this game. With the exception of the castle towers in the market scene. The character models especially are more than fine, even good, to me, and that wouldn't have been my focus for this remaster either. Texture work needed the biggest upgrade, and they did their work very well in that respect. From newer footage the shadows also seem sharper compared to the initial trailer. I would have liked the implementation of a modern lighting technology like they did in Wind Waker HD, but it's not terrible.



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Did they ever say what resolution this is at? I'm wondering if they found a way to make it fly at 1080p like WWHD.



bunchanumbers said:
Did they ever say what resolution this is at? I'm wondering if they found a way to make it fly at 1080p like WWHD.

With these visuals, there's really no excuse for it not to be 1080p, when you consider that Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Smash Bros, and WWHD all were.



curl-6 said:
bunchanumbers said:
Did they ever say what resolution this is at? I'm wondering if they found a way to make it fly at 1080p like WWHD.

With these visuals, there's really no excuse for it not to be 1080p, when you consider that Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Smash Bros, and WWHD all were.

 

I'm guessing that we're going to have to wait for the DF analysis, but I'm impressed with what I've seen. The frame rate is smoother too. 1080p would be gravy.



Looks alright. Nothing mindblowing. Will be interesting to see the final version in real life..



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Kennel83 said:
HoloDust said:
Kennel83 said:
HoloDust said:
Kennel83 said:
I can't understand how can people compare dolphin with this tp hd. What are the specs needed to play that game on dolphin? Aren't they far higher than a wii u? It's like comparing a beetle with a bmw. I think the game looks great, though I still hate the tree models in hyrule field, god they look awful even in hd xD

Learning how emulators work and why such (relatively) powerful PCs are needed to accurately emulate old hardware would go a long way in helping you understand that.

There are plenty of games on WiiU that look much, much better than this TP HD remaster or even Dolphin - comparing remaster with Dolphin versions is to show how little effort Nintendo has actually put into it.

Well, could you explain to me if the specs needed to perfectly emulate TP in Dolphin are actually higher than a wii u or not? Because as I´m no expert I would love to know it. All I know is what I´ve read on forums, and it looks like there needs to be a powerful computer to play the games. I would love to replay Xenoblade Chronicles with all the packs installed, but as my laptop is six years old I read it was useless for this. 

Actually, we agree on this topic, I also think this wasn´t the best remaster of the world, and I agree that they could have done a lot better than this, but I don´t know how lazy they´ve been with this. 

But as you seem to know the answer, wouldn´t it be easier to remaster TP with a powerful pc rather than for the wii u? Or is it more like how much time and effort they put into the game? Is it hardware related or time/effort related? I´ve always wondered this kind of things :P




Yes, the specs are higher - not as high as some might expect though - Dolphin is (mostly) 2 core beast and high clock Intel CPU is required for smooth sailing (due to much better IPC than AMD's CPUs), but that means $60 Pentium G3260 slightly overclocked will more than suffice...$350-400 rig is quite enough honestly.

This is of course much faster than WiiU...but said PC actually has to emulate Wii. WiiU on the other hand does not...I'm not sure what was last concensus on WiiU's architecture, but, IIRC, it pretty much has TEVs from Wii, CPU is more or less upgraded Wii's CPU, so this is why backward compatibility is so easy. There are actually no technical obstacles for this remaster to have much better geometry and lighting.

So, yeah, in the end, it is indeed lack of effort on their part...it is not fully unexpected however, proper TP remaster would require much more work than WW, and they obvisouly don't think they have to do it in order to sell TP HD.

Thanks for your answer! Now I think I get it a bit more. The bolded part is really interesting. So if they actually can rework geometry and lighting as well as the rest, then I get all the complaints about this remaster. The sad thing is that, as you say, Nintendo knows they don't need to redo all of that in order to sell, let's say, another 2 million of TP. In the end is their loss, people will look at it and think that although it looks great it's a cheap remaster to cash money, and that kind of things are bad for their image. Games like amiibo festival and mario tennis ultra smash as well.

I always thought that, as people talk about how underpowered the wii u is, that they were unable to remaster so many things in the game due to hardware limitations, but if that isn't true, well, then I just can't understand it, they should always give their best on their games, what's the point of being a great developer if you don't push yourself and just be content with the minimum effort.

Because it's extra cost. Redoing the textures is easier than smoothing out all the models. Because, once you do that. The model bones have to be re-connected to the model. And then you have to check all the animations for deformation errors. That is man hours. When you smooth out models. You're adding polygons. And more vertices. Which weren't there in the old setup. Those extra points can get pulled in wrong directions. You could have midna's right thigh move with her left. Because the skin mapping is crossing over the new area. This is the testing that takes time.

If you are redoing all the people in the game. Which is thousands of animations. The more complicated, being bosses. Since they're non human. Also time could be a problem. They have a 6 month window to release. BUt redoing character models would make the time, say  8 months. It's dropped.

Here's an example. I was rigging 6 MVC3 player models. So I could make wallpapers with them. The right thigh is being moved with the left leg. And the left kneecap is not being fully pulled with the rest of the leg.





archer9234 said:

Because it's extra cost. Redoing the textures is easier than smoothing out all the models. Because, once you do that. The model bones have to be re-connected to the model. And then you have to check all the animations for deformation errors. That is man hours. When you smooth out models. You're adding polygons. And more vertices. Which weren't there in the old setup. Those extra points can get pulled in wrong directions. You could have midna's right thigh move with her left. Because the skin mapping is crossing over the new area. This is the testing that takes time.

If you are redoing all the people in the game. Which is thousands of animations. The more complicated, being bosses. Since they're non human. Also time could be a problem. They have a 6 month window to release. BUt redoing character models would make the time, say  8 months. It's dropped.

Here's an example. I was rigging 6 MVC3 player models. So I could make wallpapers with them. The right thigh is being moved with the left leg. And the left kneecap is not being fully pulled with the rest of the leg.



 

Yeah, that sounds like a lot of work. I don't know how many people are working on the remaster but if they are really working on it for more than a year I'm guessing that could have been done, though I have no complaints about that honestly. From the little we have seen my main concern is that they should have worked the lighting a little bit more, adding more contrast would have been great. Anyway, I'm really hyped for this remaster what can I say, it's Zelda :P



onionberry said:
collint0101 said:
am i the only one that thinks the hosts feel really fake and artificial? its honestly kind of distracting. aside from that yeah the new textures look great

 


yeah they work for Nintendo so it's more like a PR video.

They feel more real than any PR person i seen





97alexk said:
onionberry said:

 


yeah they work for Nintendo so it's more like a PR video.

They feel more real than any PR person i seen



looks like they're enjoying their job, best job ever imo. 





Kennel83 said:
archer9234 said:

Because it's extra cost. Redoing the textures is easier than smoothing out all the models. Because, once you do that. The model bones have to be re-connected to the model. And then you have to check all the animations for deformation errors. That is man hours. When you smooth out models. You're adding polygons. And more vertices. Which weren't there in the old setup. Those extra points can get pulled in wrong directions. You could have midna's right thigh move with her left. Because the skin mapping is crossing over the new area. This is the testing that takes time.

If you are redoing all the people in the game. Which is thousands of animations. The more complicated, being bosses. Since they're non human. Also time could be a problem. They have a 6 month window to release. BUt redoing character models would make the time, say  8 months. It's dropped.

Here's an example. I was rigging 6 MVC3 player models. So I could make wallpapers with them. The right thigh is being moved with the left leg. And the left kneecap is not being fully pulled with the rest of the leg.



 

Yeah, that sounds like a lot of work. I don't know how many people are working on the remaster but if they are really working on it for more than a year I'm guessing that could have been done, though I have no complaints about that honestly. From the little we have seen my main concern is that they should have worked the lighting a little bit more, adding more contrast would have been great. Anyway, I'm really hyped for this remaster what can I say, it's Zelda :P

It's possible that the team could of tested WW bloom lighting. And it just looked horrible, in TP. That could be a reason why the lighting wasn't really changed as much as WW. This games main complaint is that it's brown. And they fixed that. The rest was left as is.

Or it's possible Nintendo had no intendtion of doing TP now. And was like. Well, we delayed Zelda. What can we do. We can port TP in half a year. So it's now just a rush job. I'd also add in the time wasted for the outcource team familuizing themselves with TP. WW had a nintendo team work on it. So they would know how the game was built.