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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - the Wii U is not getting replaced this year, guys

DélioPT on 17 January 2016

Why should Nintendo keep Wii U alive until November 2017?
The console has been irrelevant to gamers; even if it's making money on it now, if you take out the R&D spent on the console, marketing over the years, how much of a profit will it have made in 2017?
The longer Wii U is around the more Nintendo risks facing irrelevance in the home console segment.

Nintendo needs a stronger source of revenue - as it is it's core focus.
They need NX to do that and most importantly to make amends with it's fanbase and be taken seriously again by gamers.

E3 last year showed pretty well that even if they have projects coming this for Wii U, those will be kept at a minimal. Had they any intentions of keeping it alive until 2017 and E3 2015 would have been a repeat of E3 2014. It wasn't.

You don't support a failed system more than you have to. That's how business is done.

NX will be presented and launched this year because that's the best way to hype people for a console that normally you wouldn't look twice.
It worked really well for Sony and MS, why not for Nintendo?



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PerturbedKitty on 17 January 2016
Conina said:
PerturbedKitty said:

you act like it is complete doom and gloom for nintendo. nintendo is in no way comparable to the stupid ass blackberry people. the difference is that nintendo is ALWAYS going to be around. nintendo is ALWAYS going to make a profit off of every generation. and Nintendo is ALWAYS going to be responsible for the greatest games to come out every generation. just stop with "nintendo needs to do this or else .... and they will forever be irrelevant to the industry"

Has Nintendo made profit of their 8th generation of handhelds & consoles yet? Let's see... they started the 8th gen with the launch of the 3DS end of February 2011 (Japan) and end of March 2011 (worldwide). In the 4.5 years after that (April 2011 - September 2015) they had an operating income loss of 86.4 billion Yen / 1 billion USD. Do you really think they can get the 8th gen profitable before they start their 9th gen?

Yeah, last year they made a profit of 25 billion Yen / 200 million USD, perhaps they can even enhance it this year to 30 billion Yen / 250 million USD if the holiday quarter went well... but will that be enough for the shareholder's expectations?

Even if we ignore the glory years of the DS + Wii combination: from 1990 to 2006 they had no year with profits less than 65 billion Yen (114 billion Yen on average in this time frame), now it has fallen to 25 billion Yen.

 

PerturbedKitty said:

well they seem to be doing pretty alright for being as irrelevant as they are dont you think? sony couldnt survive as a company selling 12 mil consoles in 3 years, and microsoft would just axe the xbox brand altogether if it were them. and what does nintendo do? theyre profiting off of it. nobody will ever be as good at making money off of video games decade after decade after decade. its just not going to happen.

No, they are not.

 

PerturbedKitty said:

hell, look at some of their software sales. there arent many games on the ps4, for example, that sold as much as mario kart 8, smash bros, splatoon, and mario 3d world.

so just stop. nintendo will be just fine. as always.

Yeah, let's take a look on their software sales. Even before the golden DS/Wii years, they managed to sell 100 to 150 million game units per year (all retail). Last year, they barely managed get over 100 million game units, and this number is inflated by small eShop-titles, which get counted the same as a retail game. VGC expects the cumulated software sales (DS+3DS+Wii+WiiU) to fall in 2015 compared to 2014, let's hope they are wrong.

 

Hardware sales look even worse. Even before the golden DS/Wii years, they managed to sell at least 22 million hardware per year (home consoles + handhelds). Last year, they were at 12.6 million hardware units, this year probably less than 10 million hardware units and I can't see an upwards trend next year without the NX launch. So no, not "all is fine" for Nintendo "as always".

 

The only chartz that you posted that are of any relevance is the money chartz because that is what my post was about. everybody knows that nintendo was in the red for the first time in HISTORY at the beginning of the generation. youre not educating anybody, here. their four years of going through a rough patch isnt going to be the end of them. yeah, it fucking sucks, but as i stated before, theyre going to be just fine. they are profitting off the wii u, were you trying to refute that point? theyre making money off of every console sold. the bigger point is that nobody is as good at making money off this industry as nintendo. they are 100% self sustaining. they have proven that to be true over the past two decades. 





Uabit on 17 January 2016

How, do you. Know?.,..,.,.,,,.,.,.,



Conina on 17 January 2016
PerturbedKitty said:

The only chartz that you posted that are of any relevance is the money chartz because that is what my post was about. 

Sure, constantly shrinking annual hardware and software sales are totally irrelevant in an discussion about the launch date of a new console/handheld, which could turn around these downwards trends. The performance in former years as comparison to the current performance is also totally irrelevant... because shareholders don't care at all about keeping their status quo and are happy with the tiniest profits. They would never pressure Nintendo to get their shit together and release a new device with chances of better profits rather sooner than later.

 

PerturbedKitty said:

The only chartz that you posted that are of any relevance is the money chartz because that is what my post was about. everybody knows that nintendo was in the red for the first time in HISTORY at the beginning of the generation. youre not educating anybody, here. their four years of going through a rough patch isnt going to be the end of them. yeah, it fucking sucks, but as i stated before, theyre going to be just fine. they are profitting off the wii u, were you trying to refute that point? theyre making money off of every console sold. the bigger point is that nobody is as good at making money off this industry as nintendo.

You wrote "nintendo is ALWAYS going to make a profit off of every generation." But they don't profit of this generation (as I have shown) yet and I doubt it will still happen this or next year. Your calculation "price of the console minus production costs = profit" is a bit too simple and ignores a lot of additional costs besides BOM.

 

PerturbedKitty said:

the bigger point is that nobody is as good at making money off this industry as nintendo. they are 100% self sustaining. they have proven that to be true over the past two decades. 

Nobody was as good at making money off this industry as nintendo. We will have to wait and see, if that is still the case in the future. The successes of the past are no "proof" for the success in the future. Nobody was as good at making money off the mobile phone industry as Nokia for decades.



Soundwave on 17 January 2016
Conina said:
PerturbedKitty said:

you act like it is complete doom and gloom for nintendo. nintendo is in no way comparable to the stupid ass blackberry people. the difference is that nintendo is ALWAYS going to be around. nintendo is ALWAYS going to make a profit off of every generation. and Nintendo is ALWAYS going to be responsible for the greatest games to come out every generation. just stop with "nintendo needs to do this or else .... and they will forever be irrelevant to the industry"

Has Nintendo made profit of their 8th generation of handhelds & consoles yet? Let's see... they started the 8th gen with the launch of the 3DS end of February 2011 (Japan) and end of March 2011 (worldwide). In the 4.5 years after that (April 2011 - September 2015) they had an operating income loss of 86.4 billion Yen / 1 billion USD. Do you really think they can get the 8th gen profitable before they start their 9th gen?

Yeah, last year they made a profit of 25 billion Yen / 200 million USD, perhaps they can even enhance it this year to 30 billion Yen / 250 million USD if the holiday quarter went well... but will that be enough for the shareholder's expectations?

Even if we ignore the glory years of the DS + Wii combination: from 1990 to 2006 they had no year with profits less than 65 billion Yen (114 billion Yen on average in this time frame), now it has fallen to 25 billion Yen.

 

PerturbedKitty said:

well they seem to be doing pretty alright for being as irrelevant as they are dont you think? sony couldnt survive as a company selling 12 mil consoles in 3 years, and microsoft would just axe the xbox brand altogether if it were them. and what does nintendo do? theyre profiting off of it. nobody will ever be as good at making money off of video games decade after decade after decade. its just not going to happen.

No, they are not.

 

PerturbedKitty said:

hell, look at some of their software sales. there arent many games on the ps4, for example, that sold as much as mario kart 8, smash bros, splatoon, and mario 3d world.

so just stop. nintendo will be just fine. as always.

Yeah, let's take a look on their software sales. Even before the golden DS/Wii years, they managed to sell 100 to 150 million game units per year (all retail). Last year, they barely managed get over 100 million game units. VGC expects the cumulated software sales (DS+3DS+Wii+WiiU) to fall in 2015 compared to 2014, let's hope they are wrong.

 

Hardware sales look even worse. Even before the golden DS/Wii years, they managed to sell at least 22 million hardware per year (home consoles + handhelds). Last year, they were at 12.6 million hardware units, this year probably less than 10 million hardware units and I can't see an upwards trend next year without the NX launch. So no, not "all is fine" for Nintendo "as always".

 

 

THANK YOU for this. So refreshing to hear from someone who actually has done their homework. 

People really need to understand how bad Nintendo's hardware situation is (and that's also causing a huge drop in their overall software sales too). 

They are reaching historic lows. They never ever sold under 20 million hardware/year from '97 onwards, this year they won't even hit 15 million. 



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PerturbedKitty on 17 January 2016
Conina said:
PerturbedKitty said:

The only chartz that you posted that are of any relevance is the money chartz because that is what my post was about. 

Sure, constantly shrinking annual hardware and software sales are totally irrelevant in an discussion about the launch date of a new console/handheld, which could turn around these downwards trends. The performance in former years as comparison to the current performance is also totally irrelevant... because shareholders don't care at all about keeping their status quo and are happy with the tiniest profits. They would never pressure Nintendo to get their shit together and release a new device with chances of better profits rather sooner than later.

 

PerturbedKitty said:

The only chartz that you posted that are of any relevance is the money chartz because that is what my post was about. everybody knows that nintendo was in the red for the first time in HISTORY at the beginning of the generation. youre not educating anybody, here. their four years of going through a rough patch isnt going to be the end of them. yeah, it fucking sucks, but as i stated before, theyre going to be just fine. they are profitting off the wii u, were you trying to refute that point? theyre making money off of every console sold. the bigger point is that nobody is as good at making money off this industry as nintendo.

You wrote "nintendo is ALWAYS going to make a profit off of every generation." But they don't profit of this generation (as I have shown) yet and I doubt it will still happen this or next year. Your calculation "price of the console minus production costs = profit" is a bit too simple and ignores a lot of additional costs besides BOM.

 

PerturbedKitty said:

the bigger point is that nobody is as good at making money off this industry as nintendo. they are 100% self sustaining. they have proven that to be true over the past two decades. 

Nobody was as good at making money off this industry as nintendo. We will have to wait and see, if that is still the case in the future. The successes of the past are no "proof" for the success in the future. Nobody was as good at making money off the mobile phone industry as Nokia for decades.

im sorry, i think we are confusing things here on your first point. what you posted is most definitely relevant to the OP, but it is not relevant to the post you were actually responding to in which i was talking strictly about nintendo's profits.

to address the point about the generation. if nintendo were to support the wii u and 3ds exclusively until the end of 2018, i believe they would overcome those numbers and profit off of the generation, or at least be extremely close to it. yes, no console manufacturer wants to break even on an entire generation, but nintendo is in the position to afford a hiccup. 





Miyamotoo on 17 January 2016
Conina said:
 
PerturbedKitty said:

The only chartz that you posted that are of any relevance is the money chartz because that is what my post was about. everybody knows that nintendo was in the red for the first time in HISTORY at the beginning of the generation. youre not educating anybody, here. their four years of going through a rough patch isnt going to be the end of them. yeah, it fucking sucks, but as i stated before, theyre going to be just fine. they are profitting off the wii u, were you trying to refute that point? theyre making money off of every console sold. the bigger point is that nobody is as good at making money off this industry as nintendo.

You wrote "nintendo is ALWAYS going to make a profit off of every generation." But they don't profit of this generation (as I have shown) yet and I doubt it will still happen this or next year. Your calculation "price of the console minus production costs = profit" is a bit too simple and ignores a lot of additional costs besides BOM.

 

 

 

 

Actually if look bottom of line and Net Income, Nintendo is making profit. For this fiscal year (year they will end on 31. March) Nintendo will have similar Net Income like previous year, so definitely Nintendo is making profit even this gen.





Illusion on 17 January 2016
PerturbedKitty said:

The only chartz that you posted that are of any relevance is the money chartz because that is what my post was about. everybody knows that nintendo was in the red for the first time in HISTORY at the beginning of the generation. youre not educating anybody, here. their four years of going through a rough patch isnt going to be the end of them. yeah, it ... sucks, but as i stated before, theyre going to be just fine. they are profitting off the wii u, were you trying to refute that point? theyre making money off of every console sold. the bigger point is that nobody is as good at making money off this industry as nintendo. they are 100% self sustaining. they have proven that to be true over the past two decades. 

I really think the reason why Nintendo has been somewhat profitable for the past 2 years has been partly because of the undervalued Yen and partly because of the 3DS.  Don't get me wrong, the Wii U has definitely been selling better since it's big titles started hitting in 2014, but Mario Kart and Splatoon could have been 10+ million sellers had they released on a console with an install base like the N64.  The Wii U is also missing out on the licensing fees from 3rd party developers, which are non-existent on the Wii U.

I can't prove this statement, but I really think if we knew the total dollars that Nintendo has inputted into the Wii U over it's lifetime versus earnings obtained, the ratio would be worse then what the Gamecube delivered (and Nintendo had gone on record saying that the Gamecube was a failure for them).





Thunderbird77 on 17 January 2016
Miyamotoo said:
Thunderbird77 said:

Doesn't anyone read here?

If for some reason the next contoller can't play all wii u games, at least the non gamepad focused will be playable.

Would be stupid to port a game that's already there. People who want to play Zelda U on the wii u successor can simply buy the wii u game either phisically or digitally, no need for an extra controller, like TP gamecube.

It seem you don't read here.

How you know that!? On Wii you needed GC controller for evre GC game, on Wii U you needed Wii controller for evre Wii game. You totally ignoring those facts.

Again you are assuming that NX will be BC but that is not certain at all. Also NX version will probably have some improvements or difference in comparison with Wii U version.

Check the difference in imputs between wiimote + nunchuck and other controllers. Now, what kind of imput the gamepad has that you think won't be there on wii u successor and is essencial for Zelda U? So far, I see nothing.





Thunderbird77 on 17 January 2016
Wyrdness said:
Thunderbird77 said:

Doesn't anyone read here? If for some reason the next contoller can't play all wii u games, at least the non gamepad focused will be playable. Would be stupid to port a game that's already there. People who want to play Zelda U on the wii u successor can simply buy the wii u game either phisically or digitally, no need for an extra controller, like TP gamecube.

 


You're kind of missing their point, Nintendo can always do that yes and likely will if Wii U has BC but an NX version seems more likely as like with TP it can be marketed more as an NX game to drive up sales of the latter. Being possibly the biggest and most expensive game the company has created they would more then likely want it to hit as many sales as possible and NX taking off is more important to Nintendo then how many copies it shifts on Wii U, if you have a Wii U now it's very likely you're getting Zelda regardless, an NX port would be more geared to people who don't have a Wii U and these are people who wouldn't want to buy any peripheral to play it if it was required.

Or they can just market the game intead of wasting their money on a port. oh, stop saying NX when you don't know what it is. If you want to talk about wii u successor, say exactly that, not NX.