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Is Faith Reasonable?

Yes 72 32.88%
 
No 116 52.97%
 
I don't know 10 4.57%
 
Darn skeptics 4 1.83%
 
Results 17 7.76%
 
Total:219
Nem on 10 January 2016
ohmylanta1003 said:
hershel_layton said:
This shouldn't be political.

99% of conservatives are die-hard Christians. They still think evolution is a "myth". They also think that anything in the Bible means it's true.

99% of liberals won't even give a response. They'll call you racist(even though religion has nothing to do with race). They also have a funny idea of what freedom of speech is. They can criticize everything they want, yet they'll cry that they're being harassed if someone says one word against them.


Leave this to scientists(and real ones. Not those idiot creationists in the south that claim to be "professionals"). When scientists debate, there usually isn't any bias or feelings brought into the argument. It can create great arguments that'll usually find an answer(even if it isn't clear).

 


This is ridiculous. First of all, you made up the first stat. Secondly, I love your last paragraph. That's what every non-creationist says when this topic comes up. "It's proven by science done by scientists". Don't you get tired of saying that? Do you realize how uninformed you sound? Or how little evidence there actually is to explain anything about the start of the universe?

 

He is not misinformed at all. You are. Probable been forced fed all sorts of lies and half-truths to believe that way. The thing about evolution is that it's been verified in countless fossils and verified in the lab looking at the DNA strings. Unsurprisingly they coincide at the start with things like plants - i know... creationists can't even begin to fathom that because they never understood how evolution works. Usually a creationist can only picture things fully grown or non-existant and thinks he understands the world better than evidence. There is a full picture of evolution. This isn't just one piece of evidence, its many that fit perfectly with many other paralel ones and can be understood from the simple to the complex and later predicted.

Oh and for that always enlighted claim that a "theory" doesnt have proof. "theory of gravity" would like a word with you. Theories don't graduate to like laws or something. But scientific theories are supported by evidence and are fact. Make no mistake, evolution is a fact. Anyone saying it isn't is in complete denial.

Cool statements like "how can something come from nothing?" when adressing the beggining of the universe, like simple human logic can be applied in the sub-atomic level. Besides, "nothing" has never been observed. It is not observable, its merely a human created concept. Our minds weren't originally built to understand more than the world around us. Of course using its most basic tools isn't going to give us the answer to the most complicated question. And the answer has to be structured. From simple to complex. When the answer starts with a more complex beeing than the answer to the question you are trying to answer, it merely raises more questions and goes against everything else observed in the universe.

It's still absolutely amazing to me, how there are people who still believe religion has any sort of evidence or even reasonable doubt. I understand hope, that i do. But religion was merely a tool created to control the masses in a time where there was no law and no policement. We have those things now. Religion only remains due to its fanaticism and is used as the excuse for violent behaviour, and that makes it the sorce for potencially the worst people alive, because they are willing to violate the preciousness of human life in the name of ancient charlaton schemes. You are capable of kindness yourself, you don't need a book to tell you that.



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MTZehvor on 11 January 2016
Nem said:

It's still absolutely amazing to me, how there are people who still believe religion has any sort of evidence or even reasonable doubt. I understand hope, that i do. But religion was merely a tool created to control the masses in a time where there was no law and no policement. We have those things now. Religion only remains due to its fanaticism and is used as the excuse for violent behaviour, and that makes it the sorce for potencially the worst people alive, because they are willing to violate the preciousness of human life in the name of ancient charlaton schemes. You are capable of kindness yourself, you don't need a book to tell you that.

I'd be careful with the word evidence, because evidence can be just about anything. I could cite, for instance, the willingness of so many members of the early church to die for something they would have known for certain was a lie, or the consistency of similar stories found in religious texts all across the globe dating back to times where people could not have possibly interacted, or really something as simple as an example of people claiming that religion changed their life. Evidence can be anything that suggests that something exists, and evidence that may be entirely uncompelling to one person might be very much so to another.





Nem on 11 January 2016
MTZehvor said:
Nem said:

It's still absolutely amazing to me, how there are people who still believe religion has any sort of evidence or even reasonable doubt. I understand hope, that i do. But religion was merely a tool created to control the masses in a time where there was no law and no policement. We have those things now. Religion only remains due to its fanaticism and is used as the excuse for violent behaviour, and that makes it the sorce for potencially the worst people alive, because they are willing to violate the preciousness of human life in the name of ancient charlaton schemes. You are capable of kindness yourself, you don't need a book to tell you that.

I'd be careful with the word evidence, because evidence can be just about anything. I could cite, for instance, the willingness of so many members of the early church to die for something they would have known for certain was a lie, or the consistency of similar stories found in religious texts all across the globe dating back to times where people could not have possibly interacted, or really something as simple as an example of people claiming that religion changed their life. Evidence can be anything that suggests that something exists, and evidence that may be entirely uncompelling to one person might be very much so to another.

 

Fair enough, lets go with proof then. Though i wouldn't even consider made up stories and hallcinations as evidence. Religious texts are the same as saying fantasy texts.



S.T.A.G.E. on 11 January 2016
MTZehvor said:
Nem said:

It's still absolutely amazing to me, how there are people who still believe religion has any sort of evidence or even reasonable doubt. I understand hope, that i do. But religion was merely a tool created to control the masses in a time where there was no law and no policement. We have those things now. Religion only remains due to its fanaticism and is used as the excuse for violent behaviour, and that makes it the sorce for potencially the worst people alive, because they are willing to violate the preciousness of human life in the name of ancient charlaton schemes. You are capable of kindness yourself, you don't need a book to tell you that.

I'd be careful with the word evidence, because evidence can be just about anything. I could cite, for instance, the willingness of so many members of the early church to die for something they would have known for certain was a lie, or the consistency of similar stories found in religious texts all across the globe dating back to times where people could not have possibly interacted, or really something as simple as an example of people claiming that religion changed their life. Evidence can be anything that suggests that something exists, and evidence that may be entirely uncompelling to one person might be very much so to another.

 

If you get people to believe in your cause and become completely behind it they have great potential to die for it. Remember that people way back when were not educated in Europe when they fought in the name of god, or were even taught about god and kept in line. They didnt need scientific proof because back then that type of proof did not matter. People died for honor at the whim of their governments or even their monarchy. Its actually fairly recent that scientific facts and evidence came into the picture. Its also fairly recent that Christians have been so educated in the amount of years of Christianity's existence. With the evolution of law and science over the past two hundred years, many things have changed. The secular world has had an effect of on the modern Christian and they evolve their practice to match it.



tiffac on 11 January 2016
S.T.A.G.E. said:
tiffac said:

I really like these kinds of discussions, it actually gives me faith in humanity that we can all work together and live together by respecting each other inorder to save the world.

 

The spread of religion across the globe had little to do with respect for ones faith but the need to force it upon others so future generations would follow without question.

I wasn't talking about religion.



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ohmylanta1003 on 11 January 2016
Nem said:
ohmylanta1003 said:

 


This is ridiculous. First of all, you made up the first stat. Secondly, I love your last paragraph. That's what every non-creationist says when this topic comes up. "It's proven by science done by scientists". Don't you get tired of saying that? Do you realize how uninformed you sound? Or how little evidence there actually is to explain anything about the start of the universe?

 

He is not misinformed at all. You are. Probable been forced fed all sorts of lies and half-truths to believe that way. The thing about evolution is that it's been verified in countless fossils and verified in the lab looking at the DNA strings. Unsurprisingly they coincide at the start with things like plants - i know... creationists can't even begin to fathom that because they never understood how evolution works. Usually a creationist can only picture things fully grown or non-existant and thinks he understands the world better than evidence. There is a full picture of evolution. This isn't just one piece of evidence, its many that fit perfectly with many other paralel ones and can be understood from the simple to the complex and later predicted.

Oh and for that always enlighted claim that a "theory" doesnt have proof. "theory of gravity" would like a word with you. Theories don't graduate to like laws or something. But scientific theories are supported by evidence and are fact. Make no mistake, evolution is a fact. Anyone saying it isn't is in complete denial.

Cool statements like "how can something come from nothing?" when adressing the beggining of the universe, like simple human logic can be applied in the sub-atomic level. Besides, "nothing" has never been observed. It is not observable, its merely a human created concept. Our minds weren't originally built to understand more than the world around us. Of course using its most basic tools isn't going to give us the answer to the most complicated question. And the answer has to be structured. From simple to complex. When the answer starts with a more complex beeing than the answer to the question you are trying to answer, it merely raises more questions and goes against everything else observed in the universe.

It's still absolutely amazing to me, how there are people who still believe religion has any sort of evidence or even reasonable doubt. I understand hope, that i do. But religion was merely a tool created to control the masses in a time where there was no law and no policement. We have those things now. Religion only remains due to its fanaticism and is used as the excuse for violent behaviour, and that makes it the sorce for potencially the worst people alive, because they are willing to violate the preciousness of human life in the name of ancient charlaton schemes. You are capable of kindness yourself, you don't need a book to tell you that.

 


Wow. You must be incredibly smart to understand all that sciency stuff. I wish I was more like you.

I never said anything about theories or about nothing, so I'm not really sure why you brought those up. Is this your copy paste argument that you throw around whenever this topic comes up? And what do you mean we don't "understand how evolution works"? Most people are taught it in school. I really don't understand any of your response. Kind of just seems like you threw something at me that you've written before.



I bet the Wii U would sell more than 15M LTD by the end of 2015. He bet it would sell less. I lost.

mcnol012 on 11 January 2016

Well, another topic about Politics but they make a war instead



Nem on 11 January 2016
ohmylanta1003 said:
Nem said:

 

He is not misinformed at all. You are. Probable been forced fed all sorts of lies and half-truths to believe that way. The thing about evolution is that it's been verified in countless fossils and verified in the lab looking at the DNA strings. Unsurprisingly they coincide at the start with things like plants - i know... creationists can't even begin to fathom that because they never understood how evolution works. Usually a creationist can only picture things fully grown or non-existant and thinks he understands the world better than evidence. There is a full picture of evolution. This isn't just one piece of evidence, its many that fit perfectly with many other paralel ones and can be understood from the simple to the complex and later predicted.

Oh and for that always enlighted claim that a "theory" doesnt have proof. "theory of gravity" would like a word with you. Theories don't graduate to like laws or something. But scientific theories are supported by evidence and are fact. Make no mistake, evolution is a fact. Anyone saying it isn't is in complete denial.

Cool statements like "how can something come from nothing?" when adressing the beggining of the universe, like simple human logic can be applied in the sub-atomic level. Besides, "nothing" has never been observed. It is not observable, its merely a human created concept. Our minds weren't originally built to understand more than the world around us. Of course using its most basic tools isn't going to give us the answer to the most complicated question. And the answer has to be structured. From simple to complex. When the answer starts with a more complex beeing than the answer to the question you are trying to answer, it merely raises more questions and goes against everything else observed in the universe.

It's still absolutely amazing to me, how there are people who still believe religion has any sort of evidence or even reasonable doubt. I understand hope, that i do. But religion was merely a tool created to control the masses in a time where there was no law and no policement. We have those things now. Religion only remains due to its fanaticism and is used as the excuse for violent behaviour, and that makes it the sorce for potencially the worst people alive, because they are willing to violate the preciousness of human life in the name of ancient charlaton schemes. You are capable of kindness yourself, you don't need a book to tell you that.

 


Wow. You must be incredibly smart to understand all that sciency stuff. I wish I was more like you.

I never said anything about theories or about nothing, so I'm not really sure why you brought those up. Is this your copy paste argument that you throw around whenever this topic comes up? And what do you mean we don't "understand how evolution works"? Most people are taught it in school. I really don't understand any of your response. Kind of just seems like you threw something at me that you've written before.

 

Lol! You think i care enough about what others think to keep a handy pre-made post? Good joke! Though i guess if its that impressive maybe i should keep it.

I did go far beyond the point you raised and also adressed some nosense brought up in this thread. But i guess that did bring the point across and i adressed the most common nonsense points commonly brought up.

Creationists typically don't understand how evolution works because they keep asking fr proof for every tiny step of the process and when they don't see it they claim it to be false. That obviously is something very much left to chance, as the conditions that allow the preservation of fossils is very rare. But we have so many fossils and DNA string analysis that prove it, that its laughable to make claims like: Oh the reptile grew feathers and wings, but there was a point wherehe had neither feathers nor arms... how does that work? Derp, derp! 

That is a common creationist claim that reveals complete ignorance of how evolution works and how they can only think of things either complete or not there. In-between stages are obviously unthinkable. Its hysterical! 



Saeko on 11 January 2016
twintail said:
If someone believes in a God or religion, let them be.
That is their choice. Respect it, unless those ppl are extremists.

Best writing ever !

I don't believe in any god, but my GF really trust in god and follow lot of what bible saying, and we can talk each other about what is in bible and what we trust is good or not..

Religion help a lot of people on the world, the only real downside is there is some extremiste ideologie and people !




The Fury on 11 January 2016

Faith in a religion is beneficial for society as most religions teach respect and love for all people but this only works if the faith is had by a singular person. A singular person can have great faith in something and build their own life on that (this is reasonable as it makes a person better), a single person with a twisted view of that faith is just hurting themselves. When a 'faith' gets twisted and infects a larger group of people, 'herd mentality' sets in and this is dangerous for both faith and individuals. Faith is reasonable but only on a individual case.

I'm generally against organised religions and believe people need to follow whatever path they want themselves, even if this is a religion. Make up their own mind on teachings or their on views on the world and live the best you can for you, not to live up to what someone else tells you to and certainly do not disrespect other people's lives or choice in faith.

... I think that made sense.



Hmm, pie.