Quantcast
Men of "Arab or North African Appearance" commit mass sexual assault/muggings in Germany on NYE

Forums - General Discussion - Men of "Arab or North African Appearance" commit mass sexual assault/muggings in Germany on NYE

ratuscafoarterea said:
I really don't get what you're trying to say,  fact is that even the Cologne officials have said that the group of attackers were made of Arab North African origin, even Merkel has said it ... and you, some guy from Australia you're trying to say that "no, it's not true" ?

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/eve-attacks-women-cologne-stun-154859101.html

What I'm saying is that everyone's working off exactly the same information - a "claim". It's still a rumour at this point in time, as they have not identified any of the perpetrators, have not provided anything more than hearsay to justify the claim that they were "arab or north african appearance", and most notably "arab" and "north african" appearances are actually quite different from each other.

Do you want to know how easy it is for things to get twisted? It only takes ONE perpetrator having relatively dark skin (even Greek or Italian would be sufficient - heck, just a tan would be sufficient), and the victim interpreting the perpetrator as arab, and then when other victims hear about it, having not gotten a good enough look at the perpetrator, they fill in the gaps with the information they've heard, and suddenly they're "remembering" an arab.

It's called the Misinformation Effect.

There are other, similar effects that can also influence it. And we haven't even touched the possibility of things like mass delusion (note: I'm not asserting the assault didn't happen, I'm asserting a delusion about the perpetrators).

 

But I do like how you invoke my nationality, as though that somehow invalidates my understanding of the media, the trustworthiness of information, and my right to comment.

Note that nowhere did I say that the stories are false. What I said was that we can't take this information as absolute fact just because a lot of media ran with it.

Also, when did Merkel say anything about their appearance? The only thing I can find her saying is that the perpetrators have to be punished as quickly as possible without regard to origin or appearance.



Around the Network
Aura7541 said:
This is a strawman fallacy. The topic is about criticizing Islam and its religious texts.

But to entertain your response, one religous group has already realized parts of its religious texts are wrong while another is still following it literally. As much as I dislike Ted Cruz, he actually had a point when he said that he preferred letting in Christian immigrants over Muslim immigrants.

It's not a strawman to point out similarity. I'm not sure you even understand what the "strawman fallacy" is - it's where a person creates a totally different argument that has weaknesses not found in the original argument (the strawman), claims that's what the original argument was, and then proceeds to destroy the strawman.

The argument at hand is that Islam promotes anti-female sentiments, supports rape, etc, and that this has some connection with events in Germany. By pointing out the equivalent lines from the bible, what deskpro has done is demonstrated, quite efficiently, that the same attitudes are found in the Bible, and therefore if there's a connection, a similar connection should be able to be made elsewhere due to the influence of the Bible. If such a connection doesn't exist, then there's no reason to assume the presence of that sentiment in the Quran has any connection to recent events, either.

This is an entirely legitimate form of argument, not a fallacy.

Incidentally, many Christians still follow the bible literally (see Westboro Baptist Church, for instance), while many Muslims will tell you that the verses you refer to are being misinterpreted - which implies that those verses aren't literal, in their view. Therefore, YOU are the one who has constructed a strawman, when you implied that the difference is literalism.



This is f-cked up if true. I have not heard anything about this in the U.S. but well be checking sources. However Religion has been the main cause of all this crap. It's always some Religious dude thinking he is doing gods work and in U.S. you have a lot more to worry about a right wing christian than you do a Muslim. However I blame religions. We need to use the Scientific method and grow out of these myths before they kill us all.



Aielyn said:
Aura7541 said:
This is a strawman fallacy. The topic is about criticizing Islam and its religious texts.

But to entertain your response, one religous group has already realized parts of its religious texts are wrong while another is still following it literally. As much as I dislike Ted Cruz, he actually had a point when he said that he preferred letting in Christian immigrants over Muslim immigrants.

It's not a strawman to point out similarity. I'm not sure you even understand what the "strawman fallacy" is - it's where a person creates a totally different argument that has weaknesses not found in the original argument (the strawman), claims that's what the original argument was, and then proceeds to destroy the strawman.

The argument at hand is that Islam promotes anti-female sentiments, supports rape, etc, and that this has some connection with events in Germany. By pointing out the equivalent lines from the bible, what deskpro has done is demonstrated, quite efficiently, that the same attitudes are found in the Bible, and therefore if there's a connection, a similar connection should be able to be made elsewhere due to the influence of the Bible. If such a connection doesn't exist, then there's no reason to assume the presence of that sentiment in the Quran has any connection to recent events, either.

This is an entirely legitimate form of argument, not a fallacy.

Incidentally, many Christians still follow the bible literally (see Westboro Baptist Church, for instance), while many Muslims will tell you that the verses you refer to are being misinterpreted - which implies that those verses aren't literal, in their view. Therefore, YOU are the one who has constructed a strawman, when you implied that the difference is literalism.

 

You are way more likely to be killed by a Christain than a Muslim in U.S. That's just the facts. Our Screening process of refugee's is the best in the world. We do this for over 2 years with massive investigations etc... However you can get a tourist visa with in weeks, with out all these back ground checks etc. Ted Cruz is using the fear card for something that is very well vetted. Getting past as a Refugee would be almost impossible, if not impossible. We destabilized the area, we should help as much as we destroyed. If you want to be sure, Let in the Woman and kids only. The Men are the over all massive percentage of terrorist and this is who we have been letting in.

If anything Ted Cruz and Donald Trump make us way less safe by the racism they use. This is what happens. You get used in terror regruitment video's and it works. You catch more bee's with Honey than you do with Vinegar. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-al-shabaab_56874dcbe4b0b958f65bd383



This story appeared in Swedish newspapers today. I'm almost proud that they actually reported on it.



Around the Network

Pity that lots of media will be very happy to raise this on the "racial" level.



    CU......or CF ?

I thought this was like a hoax then I saw on the news earlier that 31 people has been identified for actually taking part in this incident and some of them were refugees. This will just add unnecessary tensions.



There are tons of reports of women being harassed and even some raped at Germany's Oktoberfest by German locals ... I wonder how many of the "outraged" people here were "outraged" by that

http://www.thelocal.de/20131002/52191

http://www.thelocal.de/20121004/45349

http://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-society/at-oktoberfest-sexual-assault-and-abuse-on-the-rise/oktoberfest-germany-violence-rape-beer/c3s9753/


Not even men are safe apparently, a British man was even raped and a 16 year old ripped the clothes off a woman:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11127814/British-man-raped-at-Germanys-Oktoberfest.html

Should we have a discussion about the problems with rape in Christian culture? I'm not religious, but the double standard is pretty glaring here. 



Soundwave said:

There are tons of reports of women being harassed and even some raped at Germany's Oktoberfest by German locals ... I wonder how many of the "outraged" people here were "outraged" by that

http://www.thelocal.de/20131002/52191

http://www.thelocal.de/20121004/45349

http://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-society/at-oktoberfest-sexual-assault-and-abuse-on-the-rise/oktoberfest-germany-violence-rape-beer/c3s9753/


Not even men are safe apparently, a British man was even raped and a 16 year old ripped the clothes off a woman:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11127814/British-man-raped-at-Germanys-Oktoberfest.html

Should we have a discussion about the problems with rape in Christian culture? I'm not religious, but the double standard is pretty glaring here. 

Was there a Vgchartz thread written about it?  If so, you should be able to check to see how many responses it has.  Not sure why you even need to ask the question when you can search it yourself.

Additionally, go ahead, have a discussion about rape in the Christian and Catholic culture (Start with the sex abuse scandal and the Vatican...I think I heard something about that, once.../facepalm).  Those however, are straw men, the fact that these men allegedly perpetrated sexual violence against these women, in no way says anyone 'condones' other acts of sexual violence by other individuals.  That's what we call a logical fallacy.  You are countering an argument that was never made, in what is most likely a lame attempt at getting a rise out of other religious individuals.  Go for it.  I welcome the discussion, no religion is untouchable, even though you know, "Arab and North African" are not religions.

The "Arab or North African" appearance, is the description given by the alleged victims, in this case.  Have some right-wing loons used it as a xenophobic bullet point?  Undoubtedly, but right and left wing loons come out of the wood work when anything bad happens.   We don't ignore those things, just because it also brings crazies out of the wood work, in fact, it's our ability to talk amongst ourselves about the facts as we know them, that separates us from the crazies.  And yes, sometimes the topics are uncomfortable, but ignoring them does nothing.

I've asked this on Twitter, but I'll ask here as well, exactly how should this have been phrased by the news, that would've been acceptable to everyone(Other than the alleged victims, since what they have to say is apparently crossing a line)?  There's a very real duty by the news, to notify persons potentially at risk in Germany (or wherever), of potential dangers they may face.  That's their job.   So, seriously, how can the news media convey this information to the public, without giving a description of the alleged perpetrators?  We're not talking about one person here...we're talking about large groups of people who allegedly were assaulting women (again, there's well over 100 reports by now throughout Germany). 



This can't be true, why would muslims do this? women in muslim countries have so many rights and freedom, they totally don't get stoned to death after being raped, right?

 

 

It's always funny seeing the mental gymnastics some have to do to defend this.

 

Now the occidental culture is to blame here, yup, we should learn from muslims in how to treat woman.

 

Fucking lol

 

http://www.allenbwest.com/2015/10/mainstream-media-wont-tell-you-why-sweden-is-now-rape-capital-of-the-west/

 

“Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country, violent crime has increased by 300 percent and rapes by 1,472 percent.