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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The next Nintendo Handheld needs to be more powerful

RolStoppable said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
I would have to agree.


Sony's Playstation Vita proved once and for all that powerful hardware is essential in the fight against the growing smartphone market. Nintendo would be foolish not to follow their lead.

Best post so far.

On topic: As if anyone who is interested in handheld gaming would compare specs of dedicated devices and tablets/smartphones. All that matters is that Nintendo settles for reliable and affordable parts to keep hardware costs reasonable and don't make the relationship between their upcoming home console and handheld a headache.

I'm thinking NX portable will be a modest leap over Vita similar to 3DS vs PSP and NX console will be a modest leap over Wii U similar to Wii vs GC.





When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
RolStoppable said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
I would have to agree.


Sony's Playstation Vita proved once and for all that powerful hardware is essential in the fight against the growing smartphone market. Nintendo would be foolish not to follow their lead.

Best post so far.

On topic: As if anyone who is interested in handheld gaming would compare specs of dedicated devices and tablets/smartphones. All that matters is that Nintendo settles for reliable and affordable parts to keep hardware costs reasonable and don't make the relationship between their upcoming home console and handheld a headache.

I'm thinking NX portable will be a modest leap over Vita similar to 3DS vs PSP and NX console will be a modest leap over Wii U similar to Wii vs GC.



 

They might as well start applying for a Playstation 4/XBox One license, because they're done as a console maker if they do that. 

The Wii model doesn't work without a miracle controller to go with it. It's like saying you're going to put all your energy into becoming a model when you're not good looking to begin with. The Wii got away with this strategy, much like a hot supermodel gets away with a lot of things a normal woman wouldn't ... but if Nintendo doesn't have that magic controller, then this route does not work. 

The portable would do well in Japan, but their portable marketshare in US and Europe would continue to shrink too. They need to bring a product with more "wow" to the market than that. 



Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:

I'm thinking NX portable will be a modest leap over Vita similar to 3DS vs PSP and NX console will be a modest leap over Wii U similar to Wii vs GC.



 

They might as well start applying for a Playstation 4/XBox One license, because they're done as a console maker if they do that. 

The Wii model doesn't work without a miracle controller to go with it. It's like saying you're going to put all your energy into becoming a model when you're not good looking to begin with. 

The portable would do well in Japan, but their portable marketshare in US and Europe would continue to shrink too. They need to bring a product with more "wow" to the market than that. 

 

I don't see them trying to compete head on with Sony/Microsoft, I see them trying to blur the lines between what mobile & console game are, something that falls into its own middle ground market that can appeal to both sides of the spectrum.

To say Wii's success was solely due to a miracle controller is both naive & ignorant, it was a major factor but far from the only one, a controller doesnt mean shit without the right marketing, price, and software to push it. Besides who ever said Wii levels sales are required from the console portion to be a success?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:

 

They might as well start applying for a Playstation 4/XBox One license, because they're done as a console maker if they do that. 

The Wii model doesn't work without a miracle controller to go with it. It's like saying you're going to put all your energy into becoming a model when you're not good looking to begin with. 

The portable would do well in Japan, but their portable marketshare in US and Europe would continue to shrink too. They need to bring a product with more "wow" to the market than that. 

 

I don't see them trying to compete head on with Sony/Microsoft, I see them trying to blur the lines between what mobile & console game are, something that falls into its own middle ground market that can appeal to both sides of the spectrum.

To say Wii's success was solely due to a miracle controller is both naive & ignorant, it was a major factor but far from the only one, a controller doesnt mean shit without the right marketing, price, and software to push it. Besides who ever said Wii levels sales are required from the console portion to be a success?

 

If they're making a dedicated video game console .... I'm sorry but the reality that they're going to have to accept is they ARE competing with Sony/MS whether they want to or not. Wii could alter that because the controller brought in tons of casuals, but that doesn't happen without that controller. 

Kids know the XBox and Playstation brand, they're not going to buy a "Nintendo" that's 1/2 the power of the other two and has 10 games versus 2000 for the PS4 by that time just to save $50-$100 on a five year hardware investment. 

Third parties won't support an underpowered Nintendo console ever again either. After Wii U, EA, Activision, and many others are out for sure for that type of proposition. 

There would HAVE to be a mind blowing, industry altering controller for your equation to work. 

I don't think they could even get to GameCube level sales. Just being "cheap" isn't good enough.

Like I don't mean to sound rude about it, but I'm just being real here and not looking at it from "Nintendo fan" rose tinted glasses. This is a system no one but Nintendo hardcore fanatics would buy realistically. NX needs to be much more bold and change many more aspects of Nintendo's (flawed) hardware equation that exists today. 

The Wii did not sell because it was "cheap". At $250 it wasn't even that cheap (about $300 today after inflation, so the Wii U today is the same price and actually comes with 2 free games instead of 1). You could get an XBox 360 for $50 more from day 1 back then too. The reason it sold was because the controller absolutely offered an industry shaking revolution that attracted a completely new audience that was having basically 0 games made for it. 

If Nintendo has *that* idea just waiting in the wings, great, try that again, but my guess is they don't, and if they don't, that's not the end of the world but they have to start thinking outside of the box. 



Soundwave said:

If it's about as powerful as a 360/Wii U (roughly) ... they may as well make it a micro-console too (as in you can use it as a mobile console). Make it run Android apps too (as per that Nikkei leak). I mean it would be easy to make it stream to the TV right? Or even have a physical mini-HDMI port. 

This would add lots of value to the device which is the key. Just crapping out a cheap handheld won't work, parents aren't stupid they know $199.99 is not cheap with $40+ games when Android tablets are $129.99 or less these days with free games.

Nintendo needs to change the value proposition they offer, if the leading point of a dedicated handheld is that it can play "real games", then they need to emphasize that more and widen the gap between Android/Apple tablets and what they offer.

NX Portable - $229-$249, can be used as a mini-console AND a portable (can your Android tablet do that?). Also runs Android apps and tons of Virtual Console titles (GCN and Wii and Wii U too). Bundle it with a free Amiibo + Amiibo game. Versus a $199.99 3DS XL, this a waaaaay better value. Slightly better than Wii U graphics.

NX Console - Now, this would be a different proposition, as the console market has changed so much (ie: dead in Japan), make the console a higher end product for adult players primarily, because that's all that's left of the console market. NX Console can play all the portable games (so it can play all the Nintendo games) at better graphics. But it can also run high-end ports of PC games/PS4 games with even better graphics. 3 TFLOP+ and upgradable so Sony/MS can't cut Nintendo's knees off 2-3 years with better hardware. $349.99 for hardcore gamers first and foremost.

Most/all Nintendo games run on both the portable and console, the portable just runs them at 720p with lower end graphical effects, if you have the big fat console, they run in 1080P to 2K/4K resolution with added effects. 

I think this would be a good balance. Budget/kid gamers can get the portable and with the added value of being a mini-console that can stream games to your TV. Japan would go crazy over this model. Older hardcore gamers can get the console, if you have both great. US/Europe would probably prefer this model.

No, just, please no.





NNID: garretslarrity

Steam: garretslarrity

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garretslarrity said:
Soundwave said:

If it's about as powerful as a 360/Wii U (roughly) ... they may as well make it a micro-console too (as in you can use it as a mobile console). Make it run Android apps too (as per that Nikkei leak). I mean it would be easy to make it stream to the TV right? Or even have a physical mini-HDMI port. 

This would add lots of value to the device which is the key. Just crapping out a cheap handheld won't work, parents aren't stupid they know $199.99 is not cheap with $40+ games when Android tablets are $129.99 or less these days with free games.

Nintendo needs to change the value proposition they offer, if the leading point of a dedicated handheld is that it can play "real games", then they need to emphasize that more and widen the gap between Android/Apple tablets and what they offer.

NX Portable - $229-$249, can be used as a mini-console AND a portable (can your Android tablet do that?). Also runs Android apps and tons of Virtual Console titles (GCN and Wii and Wii U too). Bundle it with a free Amiibo + Amiibo game. Versus a $199.99 3DS XL, this a waaaaay better value. Slightly better than Wii U graphics.

NX Console - Now, this would be a different proposition, as the console market has changed so much (ie: dead in Japan), make the console a higher end product for adult players primarily, because that's all that's left of the console market. NX Console can play all the portable games (so it can play all the Nintendo games) at better graphics. But it can also run high-end ports of PC games/PS4 games with even better graphics. 3 TFLOP+ and upgradable so Sony/MS can't cut Nintendo's knees off 2-3 years with better hardware. $349.99 for hardcore gamers first and foremost.

Most/all Nintendo games run on both the portable and console, the portable just runs them at 720p with lower end graphical effects, if you have the big fat console, they run in 1080P to 2K/4K resolution with added effects. 

I think this would be a good balance. Budget/kid gamers can get the portable and with the added value of being a mini-console that can stream games to your TV. Japan would go crazy over this model. Older hardcore gamers can get the console, if you have both great. US/Europe would probably prefer this model.

No, just, please no.



 

Eh? Anything specifically you didn't like? 



hershel_layton said:

The 3DS is a disappointment when it comes to specs. 240p screen, mediocre battery life, ridiculously low RAM amount, and so on.

It is now 2016, and I think the wide range of options for a handheld device is very beneficial for Nintendo...that is, if they pay attention.

Now, without a do, here are the specs I think Nintendo's next handheld should be.

 

1) a 720/1080p screen(and a lower resolution screen for the bottom[if they make the handheld like the 3DS])

2) No less than 1 GB of ram. 2 or 3 is recommended

3) A processor along the lines of Qualcomm's Snapdragon 400/600 series(slightly less wouldn't hurt).

4) No 3D. The gimmick isn't needed. Even the "improved stable 3D'' is still flawed. Besides, 3D isn't that much of an attraction point for people nowadays.

5) Improved OS. The 3DS(and Wii U) really need a better OS for their future replacements. Getting a friendcode and needing the other person to add you is extremely frustrating. An ID and message board would be much better( and if people care so much, they can put restrictions for the kiddies).

6) Reasonable price tag- Nintendo screwed up when they made the 3DS $250 in the beginning. If they're making a regular sized handheld and a larger version, they should make the prices at the most 200. 

 

 

Now, some of you may think the specs I am recommending will make the NX handheld too much. However, many gadgets nowadays can easily have said specs(and better) for a low price. Demanding top-tier specs is out of the question. However, after seeing many budget tablets and phones be much more powerful than the 3DS and only cost along the lines of $50-200 is ridiculous. 

 

Hopefully Nintendo doesn't stick with weak hardware.

I disagree with your design philosophy.  What makes handhelds, specifically Nintendo handhelds, successful is that they are cheap.  You could say the same about consoles, but to a lesser extent than handhelds.

 

1.  Way too high.  Even with their handheld screens getting larger, that kind of resolution is not necessary.  It would look nice, but come at the cost of 1. more powerful components to run the system at that resolution 2. a more expensive screen and 3. lower battery life due to #1.  They could include a larger battery, but this just further increases the costs on top of what #1  and #2 already have.  Low resolutions are the way to go with handhelds.

 

2. This I agree with.  We saw with the 3DS how it was limited by the amount of RAM (with games such as Smash and Monster Hunter 4 having to disable the web browser and Miiverse to play the game), and unlike with having a more powerful CPU, having more RAM does not consume more power and lead to decreases in battery life.

 

3. I don't know exactly how powerful those CPUs are, but just keep in mind what I mentioned earlier, how adding a more powerful CPU not only increases costs due to the CPU itself, but by the additional power it requires. 

 

4. This I agree with you on 100%.  It increases the costs, requires more resources (which therefore increases costs again) and consumes battery for both the aforementioned reasons.  

 

5.  Of course.

 

6.  Absolutely.  Just realize you can't have this if you want an HD screen (or two of them for that matter) and a powerful CPU.  It's one or the other, and I think the reasonable price tag is by far the better option for Nintendo and its customers.





NNID: garretslarrity

Steam: garretslarrity

Soundwave said:
garretslarrity said:

No, just, please no.



 

Eh? Anything specifically you didn't like? 

 

Specifically?  Well, honestly, all of it.



NNID: garretslarrity

Steam: garretslarrity

garretslarrity said:
hershel_layton said:

The 3DS is a disappointment when it comes to specs. 240p screen, mediocre battery life, ridiculously low RAM amount, and so on.

It is now 2016, and I think the wide range of options for a handheld device is very beneficial for Nintendo...that is, if they pay attention.

Now, without a do, here are the specs I think Nintendo's next handheld should be.

 

1) a 720/1080p screen(and a lower resolution screen for the bottom[if they make the handheld like the 3DS])

2) No less than 1 GB of ram. 2 or 3 is recommended

3) A processor along the lines of Qualcomm's Snapdragon 400/600 series(slightly less wouldn't hurt).

4) No 3D. The gimmick isn't needed. Even the "improved stable 3D'' is still flawed. Besides, 3D isn't that much of an attraction point for people nowadays.

5) Improved OS. The 3DS(and Wii U) really need a better OS for their future replacements. Getting a friendcode and needing the other person to add you is extremely frustrating. An ID and message board would be much better( and if people care so much, they can put restrictions for the kiddies).

6) Reasonable price tag- Nintendo screwed up when they made the 3DS $250 in the beginning. If they're making a regular sized handheld and a larger version, they should make the prices at the most 200. 

 

 

Now, some of you may think the specs I am recommending will make the NX handheld too much. However, many gadgets nowadays can easily have said specs(and better) for a low price. Demanding top-tier specs is out of the question. However, after seeing many budget tablets and phones be much more powerful than the 3DS and only cost along the lines of $50-200 is ridiculous. 

 

Hopefully Nintendo doesn't stick with weak hardware.

I disagree with your design philosophy.  What makes handhelds, specifically Nintendo handhelds, successful is that they are cheap.  You could say the same about consoles, but to a lesser extent than handhelds.

 

1.  Way too high.  Even with their handheld screens getting larger, that kind of resolution is not necessary.  It would look nice, but come at the cost of 1. more powerful components to run the system at that resolution 2. a more expensive screen and 3. lower battery life due to #1.  They could include a larger battery, but this just further increases the costs on top of what #1  and #2 already have.  Low resolutions are the way to go with handhelds.

 

2. This I agree with.  We saw with the 3DS how it was limited by the amount of RAM (with games such as Smash and Monster Hunter 4 having to disable the web browser and Miiverse to play the game), and unlike with having a more powerful CPU, having more RAM does not consume more power and lead to decreases in battery life.

 

3. I don't know exactly how powerful those CPUs are, but just keep in mind what I mentioned earlier, how adding a more powerful CPU not only increases costs due to the CPU itself, but by the additional power it requires. 

 

4. This I agree with you on 100%.  It increases the costs, requires more resources (which therefore increases costs again) and consumes battery for both the aforementioned reasons.  

 

5.  Of course.

 

6.  Absolutely.  Just realize you can't have this if you want an HD screen (or two of them for that matter) and a powerful CPU.  It's one or the other, and I think the reasonable price tag is by far the better option for Nintendo and its customers.



Nintendo handhelds are losing popularity, they're really only "massively" successful in Japan, the erosion of their marketshare in the US and Europe is bordering on a full-on collapse if you study their actual hardware shipments in these regions and look at what even the GBA and GBC sold here (if you want to discount the DS). 

What's happened is the smartphone/tablet thing wasn't a "one time" thing. Imagine being kicked in the balls. Now imagine being kicked in the balls like four times in a row. That's more like what's happening to Nintendo with portables, smartphones was the first kick in the balls, then came the iPad (tablet), and then the huge kick in the balls .... cheap Android tablets. Kids can now get tablets for $99 that play tons of games (if it had just stayed at the iPad for $500 a pop, Nintendo might have been OK). 

This is also why the first half of the 3DS' life cycle was relatively OK, they were still insulated from phones and tablets. No 10 year old was going to have their own iPad, it was a luxury item at first only for a select audience when it first came out. The iOS shop really didn't even gain traction until 2010, there were no cheapo tablets until about 2012/2013. But we've seen since about 2013 that 3DS sales have nose-dived like crazy even despite the introduction of big games like Pokemon X/Y and the 2DS. 

Ask yourself if "cheap" is the be-all, end-all for Nintendo portables why is the most expensive 3DS model, by far the best selling one? 

The actual market for 3DS these days are actually adults, not kids (outside of Japan). If it was kids, the 2DS should be the best selling model as its basically Nintendo painfully marketed "for kids 3DS model" right down to the cheap Fisher Price plastic design. Nintendo's adult fans are the ones saving their ass right now, not kids. Those 30-year-old grown men buying Princess Peach Amiibos? Those guys are the ones saving Nintendo's ass right now, not little Johnny, little Johnny is more impressed with the PS4 and trying to trick his mom into buying him GTA4. 



Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:

 

I don't see them trying to compete head on with Sony/Microsoft, I see them trying to blur the lines between what mobile & console game are, something that falls into its own middle ground market that can appeal to both sides of the spectrum.

To say Wii's success was solely due to a miracle controller is both naive & ignorant, it was a major factor but far from the only one, a controller doesnt mean shit without the right marketing, price, and software to push it. Besides who ever said Wii levels sales are required from the console portion to be a success?

 

If they're making a dedicated video game console .... I'm sorry but the reality that they're going to have to accept is they ARE competing with Sony/MS whether they want to or not. Wii could alter that because the controller brought in tons of casuals, but that doesn't happen without that controller. 

Kids know the XBox and Playstation brand, they're not going to buy a "Nintendo" that's 1/2 the power of the other two and has 10 games versus 2000 for the PS4 by that time just to save $50-$100 on a five year hardware investment. 

Third parties won't support an underpowered Nintendo console ever again either. After Wii U, EA, Activision, and many others are out for sure for that type of proposition. 

There would HAVE to be a mind blowing, industry altering controller for your equation to work. 

I don't think they could even get to GameCube level sales. Just being "cheap" isn't good enough.

Like I don't mean to sound rude about it, but I'm just being real here and not looking at it from "Nintendo fan" rose tinted glasses. This is a system no one but Nintendo hardcore fanatics would buy realistically. NX needs to be much more bold and change many more aspects of Nintendo's (flawed) hardware equation that exists today. 

The Wii did not sell because it was "cheap". At $250 it wasn't even that cheap (about $300 today after inflation, so the Wii U today is the same price and actually comes with 2 free games instead of 1). You could get an XBox 360 for $50 more from day 1 back then too. The reason it sold was because the controller absolutely offered an industry shaking revolution that attracted a completely new audience that was having basically 0 games made for it. 

If Nintendo has *that* idea just waiting in the wings, great, try that again, but my guess is they don't, and if they don't, that's not the end of the world but they have to start thinking outside of the box. 

 

Yes, they will compete in the general sense that every consumer product competes with one another in some form but that does not mean they are in DIRECT competition. Are $300 laptops direct competitors to $1000 Macbooks? What about cheap $100 android tablets, are they competing directly with the $800+ Surface Pro or iPad Pro? Does the $200, 32", 720p TV compete directly with the $1000, 50"+, 4k TV? Do cheap sub-$100 off contract phones compete directly with the flagship Galaxy or iPhone? The answer to all these questions is no, they are similar products but clearly aimed at different demographics just like NX will be to PS/XB.

Casual is not a demographic, it's a stupid term that "hardcore" gamers came up with to discredit sales of devices and games that dont cater specifically to them. And again, controller was not the only selling point of Wii, the combination of software+marketing+price+aiming at a demographic that the others were neglecting were huge factors as well, without those things a controller is useless. So yes the Wii Remote was a major factor in the success of Wii but it was not even close to the only major factor. And once again, why does the console need to replicate the sales of Wii to be a success?

Japanese & indie developers will be on board, Nintendo has strong relations with these types of developers. As far as Western 3rd parties, there are basically 6 major western publishers, EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Warner, Bethesda, Take Two. Bethesda & Take Two have never supported Nintendo in a meaningful way so not having them doesn't really affect Nintendo. As far as the other 4, they will surely give at least minimal support at the beginning and further support will rely on whether or not their games sell well and are profitable, at the bare minimum it just gets the kid/family friendly titles from them that Nintendo currently gets. So worst case scenario is that Nintendo has a strong software output of Nintendo games+Japanese games+indie games+kid/family friendly games.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.