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Forums - Politics Discussion - Virginia School District closes over Islam worksheet

 

Would you get angry if your child received this?

Yes! It is making my child submit to Islam! 77 42.78%
 
No, it is simply teaching... 62 34.44%
 
Who cares? Honestly. No need to be butthurt. 41 22.78%
 
Total:180
Shiken said:
hershel_layton said:

 

It was never banned. It simply gave kids the option to either do it or not.

 

Also, look at the class name: World religion

 

Not history, not math, not cooking class, a WORLD RELIGION class. If students are going to cry because they have to learn about another religion, then they shouldn't be in it!

 

I don't like many religions, but I'll be fine if I write down some religious text. 

 

Allow me to better explain my views on the situation then as I rushed my reply and worded it badly.  I was refering to the ridiculous uproar that the issue caused a time ago.  America is too sensitive and it drives me nuts!  It is to the point that if one person gets offended over the stupidest thing, others rights of freedom are affected and their views on a matter are considered "bigot" regardless of their opinion of the actual person who is claiming to be offended.  BUT that is another topic...

 

I have no problems with origin of other religions being taught in schools, as long as it is not preaching or in anyway an attempt at conversion.  This goes for all including Christian beliefs, which I am.  If there is any hint of possible intent conversion in an educational setting, shut it down.  Leave those aspects of your religion for outside of public education grounds, if only because you cannot teach someone who does not want to learn.

 

Now origins and history, by all means teach it all.  It is important to know it if you want any right to preach your own beliefs.

 

In short, I don't know the exact cause of all this crap but it goes like this for me.  If it is in ANY way teaching in a way that could be geared to conversion, it has no place in public schools.  But if it is purly for education and history, people need to suck it up and deal with it.  In the case of the later, refer to my rant above of america being oversensitive.

 

how is writing down some words suggest conversion though? Please, tell me.

 

People are too soft-hearted. The only reason why the kid would change/leave their religion is because:

a) They are forced

b) They saw a new religion, tried it out, and thought it was a nice religion

I'm quite sure the teacher probably has no clue on Islam. They found words that represent Islam, and said "we're just copying some words down, what can go wrong?!"...Well, a lot apparently

 

As George Carlin says- "...They're only words! It's the context that counts. It's the user! It's the intention behind the words that make them good or bad. The words are completely neutral!".

 

In this manner, the words aren't meant to make Islam look cool or horrible. It's an extremely neutral set of words that are used to help people know what a muslim believes in



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

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docholliday said:
hershel_layton said:

 


It's actually not religious texts(which makes this more ridiculous).  The group of words aren't even found in the Qur'an. 

 

Also, how is it nonsense? If you don't know, that's repeated hundreds of times in the Qur'an. yes, Islam is way more complex, but the most basic idea it spreads is that Allah is the one and only god, and Muhammad is his final messager.

"Here is the shahada, the Islamic statement of faith" Obviuosly a religious text regardless if place of origin within said religion.

 

It removed the shahada from world religion instruction. "A different, non-religious sample of Arabic calligraphy will be used in the future," it said.

Problem solved. Students still learn and the religious text is left out.



 

let's say they kept it. Why do people think they're suddenly under attack? Why do people in 2015 feel the need to always feel offended?

teachers were smart for doing this. However, the fact that people are this low is disappointing. If i had children, I honestly wouldn't care if they had to copy some words. They probably would just want to finish the homework and move on! 



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

Fei-Hung said:
Lawlight said:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2011-05-17/muslim-group-wants-sharia-law-in-australia/2717096

 

That article means very little. Umbrella bodies like that do not speak on behalf of everyone, which is why speaking to residents along with them is imperative. 

 

Secondly there is context missing - I've come across this before. In the UK, Muslims have a civil marriage and a religious ceremony, just like in other faiths. The mosques here have adopted a system under UK Law, where they work in conjunction with the local authority so that a religious ceremony is also recognised legally. The reason for this is simple, many people get married and do not legally register it. This in return causes complications regarding local statistics, legal issues of the is a divorce etc. By recognising the religious ceremony and streamlining the process, this actually works in favour of current law and legislation. 

 

Thirdly, every leader / representative says the world would benefit by adopting their way. Richard Dawkins is the greatest at this. I love star wars and I say the world would benefit by accepting the light side of the force. There is nothing important, special or newsworthy about it. It's literally click bait. 

 

It is the foremost islamic organisation in Australia. The vert fact that they want sharia law in a secular country demonstrates what they think of the country. Keep making excuses for these types of people.



SpokenTruth said:
docholliday said:

Wouldn't that be even more reason for parents of other faiths to not feel comfortable with the lesson? This same rule pretty much applies to all religions.

If you're that damn insecure about your religion that your child writing a line of script from a different religion as part of a world religion assignment (which makes me wonder why they allowed their child in that class to start with...what did they think they'd be learning about?) might tempt them to join the dark side, as it were, then you have far bigger issues.  And clearly need to study the history and teachings of your own religion.



 

Correct me if i'm wrong but the class was "World Geography" not "World Religion" like so many have quoted here, huge difference. The 1st being a requirement to take to graduate pretty much across the board. I'm far from religious myself. But I respect those that are regardless of their faith to understand how they could be unhappy with the lesson. Once again taking Christian vs Muslim out of the equation. You could insert any to faiths into this equation and there are gonna be ppl of said faith that are gonna take issue with this.



And a religion of 1.3B? How many of those are in countries with no choice of religion or with aposthasy laws?



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It's hilarious how you only made this thread because this shouldn't offend anyone and you said I was insulting you, out of freaking nowhere. Cognitive dissonance much?



hershel_layton said:
docholliday said:

"Here is the shahada, the Islamic statement of faith" Obviuosly a religious text regardless if place of origin within said religion.

 

It removed the shahada from world religion instruction. "A different, non-religious sample of Arabic calligraphy will be used in the future," it said.

Problem solved. Students still learn and the religious text is left out.



 

let's say they kept it. Why do people think they're suddenly under attack? Why do people in 2015 feel the need to always feel offended?

teachers were smart for doing this. However, the fact that people are this low is disappointing. If i had children, I honestly wouldn't care if they had to copy some words. They probably would just want to finish the homework and move on! 

 

Its not about ppl being "low". As its been point out, all 3 of the Abrahamic religions believe the same thing. That they are the one and only true religion. When your religion is based on such how do you not expect to ppl of these faiths to not take offense to such?

Personally I probably wouldn't give a crap about the lesson, but i'm not religious. So its not my place to tell those that are how they should feel about it.



hershel_layton said:
Shiken said:

 

Allow me to better explain my views on the situation then as I rushed my reply and worded it badly.  I was refering to the ridiculous uproar that the issue caused a time ago.  America is too sensitive and it drives me nuts!  It is to the point that if one person gets offended over the stupidest thing, others rights of freedom are affected and their views on a matter are considered "bigot" regardless of their opinion of the actual person who is claiming to be offended.  BUT that is another topic...

 

I have no problems with origin of other religions being taught in schools, as long as it is not preaching or in anyway an attempt at conversion.  This goes for all including Christian beliefs, which I am.  If there is any hint of possible intent conversion in an educational setting, shut it down.  Leave those aspects of your religion for outside of public education grounds, if only because you cannot teach someone who does not want to learn.

 

Now origins and history, by all means teach it all.  It is important to know it if you want any right to preach your own beliefs.

 

In short, I don't know the exact cause of all this crap but it goes like this for me.  If it is in ANY way teaching in a way that could be geared to conversion, it has no place in public schools.  But if it is purly for education and history, people need to suck it up and deal with it.  In the case of the later, refer to my rant above of america being oversensitive.

 

how is writing down some words suggest conversion though? Please, tell me.

 

People are too soft-hearted. The only reason why the kid would change/leave their religion is because:

a) They are forced

b) They saw a new religion, tried it out, and thought it was a nice religion

I'm quite sure the teacher probably has no clue on Islam. They found words that represent Islam, and said "we're just copying some words down, what can go wrong?!"...Well, a lot apparently

 

As George Carlin says- "...They're only words! It's the context that counts. It's the user! It's the intention behind the words that make them good or bad. The words are completely neutral!".

 

In this manner, the words aren't meant to make Islam look cool or horrible. It's an extremely neutral set of words that are used to help people know what a muslim believes in

 


Twist words much?  Nowhere did I state that they were using methods of conversion.  I said IF it is this way I feel this and IF it is another way I have a different view.  In fact I clearly stated that I don't know what the real cause is nor do I believe anything the media says as half the time it is blown out of proportion on their end as well.

 

Reel it in brah, you are trying too hard.  ;)



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hershel_layton said:
JWeinCom said:
Definite overreaction, but there is no way that students should be copying down "There is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is the messenger of Allah" in any language.

If I had some of my muslim students writing John 3:16 as a writing assignment, parents would be none too happy.

 

There's a difference though. One is stating the foundation of an entire religion, the other is a Bible verse saying if you're Christian, then to DisneyLand you go.

 

Personally, I don't care if you do so! Did the teachers ever say "Hey, we're gonna make you submit to all religions!" ? I recall people back then being able to visit churches, mosques, temples, and much more without people complaining. I don't see why 2015 people suddenly need to feel offended by everything that doesn't make them happy-dappy.

It's erroneous. It's childish. I assure you that if I had a child with an assignment such as this, I would let them do the assignment. Why? Because it helps the student understand the faiths of others. 

 

Name any religion- Jewdism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, as long as they aren't making it where they force them to believe in the religion(which never happened here), then let the child learn some basic information about other people!


How is this an attack on one's religion if you're simply writing down words? I'd love to know. I'm not a Christian. However, I would happily write down Bible verses talking about the foundation of Christianity. It's the tolerant thing to do. I am not fond on Christianity. BUT, I am not a bigot, and realize that it is important to understand the faith of 2.1 billion people on Earth. If I didn't think it was important, i'd probably sound as dumb as the parents crying over the assignment

 

Based on your responses so far I think you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrary.  But I'll humor you and see if I'm wrong.

"There's a difference though. One is stating the foundation of an entire religion, the other is a Bible verse saying if you're Christian, then to DisneyLand you go."

I don't see how it's different.  What does it matter if it's the foundation or not?  Children should never be forced to say anything that goes against their beliefs, verbally or in writing.  

And, if you're writing that Muhammed is the prophet Allah, then all the rest of the Quran kind of goes along with it.  It's no different from John 3:16 or whatever, because by extension you are saying implicitly the Quran is true, and everything Muhammed said is true.  So all the silly stuff like Muhammed cut the moon in two goes with that.

 

"Personally, I don't care if you do so! Did the teachers ever say "Hey, we're gonna make you submit to all religions!" ? I recall people back then being able to visit churches, mosques, temples, and much more without people complaining. I don't see why 2015 people suddenly need to feel offended by everything that doesn't make them happy-dappy."

This is a total non-sequitor.   People could go wherever they want and not be offended.  But, when a publicly funded institution instructs children to say "There is no god but Allah." That's a violation of the constitution.  This is not a new thing.

 

"It's erroneous. It's childish. I assure you that if I had a child with an assignment such as this, I would let them do the assignment. Why? Because it helps the student understand the faiths of others. "

You are free to have your child write whatever nonsense he wants.  My kids wouldn't do the assignment.  Unless they somehow wound up Muslim.  And this is not simply helping understand the religions of others.
There is a big difference between saying "Muslims believe that Allah is the one true god." And saying "There is no god but Allah."  If the kids were writing the first statement, there would be no issue.
If you don't get this, try this thought experiment.  Would you feel comfortable making a post on social media saying, "Jared Fogle believes it is ok to have sex with children?"  I'm guessing you would.  I mean, it'd be weird to say unprompted, but you may do it if there was a reason.

On the other hand, would you write on social media "It is ok to have sex with children."  I'm guessing you wouldn't post that one.
To sum it up "There is no god from Allah" =/= "Muslims believe that there is no god but Allah."
"Name any religion- Jewdism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, as long as they aren't making it where they force them to believe in the religion(which never happened here), then let the child learn some basic information about other people!"
And why does this education have to involve writing a statement that may violate many individuals personal beliefs, and in some cases their religious beliefs?  Nobody is saying it is wrong to teach about religion, so please stop using this strawman argument.  They are arguing against the specific way it is being taught.
"How is this an attack on one's religion if you're simply writing down words? I'd love to know. I'm not a Christian. However, I would happily write down Bible verses talking about the foundation of Christianity. It's the tolerant thing to do. I am not fond on Christianity. BUT, I am not a bigot, and realize that it is important to understand the faith of 2.1 billion people on Earth. If I didn't think it was important, i'd probably sound as dumb as the parents crying over the assignment"
Saying "I'm not a bigot" is a rather slimy way to imply that those who have a problem with the assignment are.
Do you know what the word tolerant means?  Because it doesn't seem like you do.
Tolerant means that if someone says that Allah is the one true god, you let them.  If your teacher is telling you about Islam, you listen respectfully.  It does not mean you have to actually participate or write something you don't agree with.  You would happily write bible verses?  Well grab a pen and a bible and knock yourself out.

As an atheist I am incredibly uncomfortable saying anything implying a belief in a deity.  It is something I totally don't believe, and I wouldn't want to say it, write it, sing it, trace it, or whatever.  And if something makes students or their parents uncomfortable, why is it necessary?
To sum it up, you don't have to respond to every point.  Just respond to this one.

You think teaching religion is important?  Fine, agreed.  Is it necessary to write "There is no god but Allah?" to learn about the religion?  Can students get a full understanding of Islam without writing that down?  If we can learn about Islam without this, why should we force students to do something which they may have intellectual, moral, or religious objections to?


Haha, there's nothing really to worry about. It would be ridiculous if your child would change religions simply from completing that assignment.