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Forums - Movies & TV - The Force Awakens sucks! *MAJOR SPOILERS*

Guitarguy said:
The movie introduced nothing new. George Lucas(as much as he fucked up the prequels) knew this. He said the ultimate story of Star Wars was the tradegy of Darth Vader, which was completely resolved in part 6 when he redeemed himself. He regained his humanity only by the love of his son. It was a beautiful story and that's why it still resonates through multiple generations today and will continue to do so. VII just rehashes the A New Hope with elements of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi infused into it.

 

Thanks to Lucas it didn't introduce anything new. If he had not messed up the prequels that bad, they would not have been forced to re-establish the whole franchise with a soft reboot like that. It may even take another movie to gain the trust of the fanbase back before they really can do anything new.

This movie did exactly what it was set out to do. Repair the damage that Lucas himself did to the Franchise. If Lucas don't like it, he should not have sold it. 



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

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Porcupine_I said:
Guitarguy said:
The movie introduced nothing new. George Lucas(as much as he fucked up the prequels) knew this. He said the ultimate story of Star Wars was the tradegy of Darth Vader, which was completely resolved in part 6 when he redeemed himself. He regained his humanity only by the love of his son. It was a beautiful story and that's why it still resonates through multiple generations today and will continue to do so. VII just rehashes the A New Hope with elements of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi infused into it.

 

Thanks to Lucas it didn't introduce anything new. If he had not messed up the prequels that bad, they would not have been forced to re-establish the whole franchise with a soft reboot like that. It may even take another movie to gain the trust of the fanbase back before they really can do anything new.

This movie did exactly what it was set out to do. Repair the damage that Lucas himself did to the Franchise. If Lucas don't like it, he should not have sold it. 

 

I agree with the last part. But putting the blame of the soft reboot onto the prequels doesn't make sense to me as the stories were not connected. If anything the original trilogy could be faulted for essentially tying up every loose end and leaving no where for VII to go but another "jedi turned evil/death star/emperor/apprentice etc.

Even when I heard VII was greenlit I feared that they would have no where else to go but to rehash the story again with the imperials(now First Order) coming back even though every ember of that faction was wiped out in VI. But alas, Disney saw the dollar signs and I don't fault them for doing what they did. Millions of fans begged for a sequel and going by the box office success, Disney made the right choice. I just didnt enjoy the movie :(



I watched it again and really enjoyed it even more the second go around. I really have no qualms about anything the movie did. Sure I have some questions, but I also have theories that answers those questions. Makes me want to see the future movies even more. Therefore, JJ, mission complete.

The more I think about Rey, she definitely has to be either Luke's daughter (too obvious?) or someone he adopted and trained personally (she was still very young when she got dropped off at Jakku). She's definitely NOT Kylo's twin sister. The lightsaber vision could have been Rey's but I believe it to be Luke's. My smoking gun for Rey being with Luke is that when Kylo is interrogating her, he mentions that she dreams of an ocean and an island, which is clearly where the movie ends.

Last theory (don't know if this was mentioned): all of the EU stuff is not canon, but the movies are. Mara Jade is in RotJ thanks to George's bastardizing of those films. So a Luke + Mara could very well have happened and produced a Rey.



Guitarguy said:
Porcupine_I said:
Guitarguy said:
The movie introduced nothing new. George Lucas(as much as he fucked up the prequels) knew this. He said the ultimate story of Star Wars was the tradegy of Darth Vader, which was completely resolved in part 6 when he redeemed himself. He regained his humanity only by the love of his son. It was a beautiful story and that's why it still resonates through multiple generations today and will continue to do so. VII just rehashes the A New Hope with elements of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi infused into it.

 

Thanks to Lucas it didn't introduce anything new. If he had not messed up the prequels that bad, they would not have been forced to re-establish the whole franchise with a soft reboot like that. It may even take another movie to gain the trust of the fanbase back before they really can do anything new.

This movie did exactly what it was set out to do. Repair the damage that Lucas himself did to the Franchise. If Lucas don't like it, he should not have sold it. 

 

I agree with the last part. But putting the blame of the soft reboot onto the prequels doesn't make sense to me as the stories were not connected. If anything the original trilogy could be faulted for essentially tying up every loose end and leaving no where for VII to go but another "jedi turned evil/death star/emperor/apprentice etc.

Even when I heard VII was greenlit I feared that they would have no where else to go but to rehash the story again with the imperials(now First Order) coming back even though every ember of that faction was wiped out in VI. But alas, Disney saw the dollar signs and I don't fault them for doing what they did. Millions of fans begged for a sequel and going by the box office success, Disney made the right choice. I just didnt enjoy the movie :(

I am old enough to remember the hype around the first movie and the original trilogy, and Lucas himself said that he had at least 9 episodes planned back then. These days he just comes across as a bitter old man who doesn't actually understand Star Wars and for me the prequels are proof of that and also that he is neither a competent director or screen writer.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the movie. I liked it very much, because it was a sign that the franchise is on the right track again and in the hand of people who are actually know what they are doing. I'm looking forward to see where it goes from here.



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

Porcupine_I said:
Guitarguy said:
The movie introduced nothing new. George Lucas(as much as he fucked up the prequels) knew this. He said the ultimate story of Star Wars was the tradegy of Darth Vader, which was completely resolved in part 6 when he redeemed himself. He regained his humanity only by the love of his son. It was a beautiful story and that's why it still resonates through multiple generations today and will continue to do so. VII just rehashes the A New Hope with elements of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi infused into it.

 

Thanks to Lucas it didn't introduce anything new. If he had not messed up the prequels that bad, they would not have been forced to re-establish the whole franchise with a soft reboot like that. It may even take another movie to gain the trust of the fanbase back before they really can do anything new.

This movie did exactly what it was set out to do. Repair the damage that Lucas himself did to the Franchise. If Lucas don't like it, he should not have sold it. 

Wow!  So you're actually blaming George Lucas for the shortcomings of a movie that he had absolutely nothing to do with?  What a bunch of mularkey.  Disney now owns Star Wars and can do whatever they want with it.  By your own admission they chose to do a soft reboot.  Not Lucas' choice, now is it? Honestly, all of the Lucas hate needs to end.  Without him there would be no Star Wars at all...  I will admit this though.  It is his fault that The Force Awakens exists.  He sold Star Wars to Disney which allowed them to make this garbage movie. 





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Episode VII WAS Lucas' idea. You guys do understand that right? He started the process and already had signed the original cast to come back and had Michael Arndt writing an outline/script.

He then got married and it seems like that was the trigger for the sale of Star Wars as he had a choice ... spend time making these new movies or spend time with his new family. He made his choice.

Once he sold it to Disney, Kathleen Kennedy (wisely) realized that there were problems with the Lucas scriptment, and chose to get JJ Abrams and let him make the film as something that would take the franchise back to its roots. Disney paid for the franchise fair and square and they have the right to use it how they want.

And now The Force Awakens going to crush every one of George's prequels in box office and probably overtake at least Titanic as the no.2 biggest movie of all time and the no.1 movie domestically. Not bad.

And yes I agree, Disney was *forced* to make Episode VII a relatively safe/soft reboot type of film because the prequels had done heavy damage to the Star Wars brand. If I'm investing $4 billion in something, I don't want the audience base for it bitterly divided, it's not good business. Disney also quickly moved to can The Clone Wars TV series and stop the 3D re-releases of Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, because they want to move those movies as far into the background as possible.

From Disney's POV the prequel fanbase are generally Star Wars lifers, who will like pretty much anything with lightsabers in it. The greater appeal that the OT had to general movie goers (read: non-nerds) and the older Star Wars fans who did not like the prequels however was always going to be a more challenging audience for Disney to bring back. They opted to go in a fairly obvious direction which was to make Episode VII a big love letter to the original movie and re-center the entire franchise around that. 



Soundwave said:

Episode VII WAS Lucas' idea. You guys do understand that right? He started the process and already had signed the original cast to come back and had Michael Arndt writing an outline/script.




Yes, Episode VII was Lucas' idea.  He gave Disney his original stories for VII through IX to show what happened next in his universe.  Disney said , " Screw it!  Let's just make a movie for the "fans".





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Tag "Sorry man. Someone pissed in my Wheaties."

"There are like ten games a year that sell over a million units."  High Voltage CEO -  Eric Nofsinger

amp316 said:
Soundwave said:

Episode VII WAS Lucas' idea. You guys do understand that right? He started the process and already had signed the original cast to come back and had Michael Arndt writing an outline/script.




Yes, Episode VII was Lucas' idea.  He gave Disney his original stories for VII through IX to show what happened next in his universe.  Disney said , " Screw it!  Let's just make a movie for the "fans".



 

No they opted to make a movie that brought back the fun nature of the original movie that appealled to non-nerds. Everyone saw the first Star Wars when it came out, grandparents, stoner rock girls, jocks, not just comic book nerds.

That's the thing with Star Wars is the "fans" are all obsessed with geeky details like what's the relationship of the Empire/Republic and what are politics of it, what's a Super Star Destroyer vs. a Star Destroyer, what can a Jedi do versus what he can't do, etc. etc. ... here's a newflash ... the general public never gave a shit about any of that. 

Star Wars was always about fun, likable characters in a mythic, fairy tale like space opera, but it was about those characters first and foremost. Their struggles, their joys, their fear, their friendships. The rest of it was just window dressing. 

Somewhere along the way, George Lucas forgot this, and started making movies more focused on the politics, midichorlians, cartoon rabbits stepping in space dog shit, power levels, trade blockades, and all the other dull stuff and pushed the characters into the background. 

Nobody quotes any line from the prequels (unless it's to mock them), because none of the characters are relatable or likable in any way. But people constantly quote the OT all the time. Disney was smart to throw Lucas' scriptment out the window and give it to someone else. 



Soundwave said:
amp316 said:

Yes, Episode VII was Lucas' idea.  He gave Disney his original stories for VII through IX to show what happened next in his universe.  Disney said , " Screw it!  Let's just make a movie for the "fans".



 

No they opted to make a movie that brought back the fun nature of the original movie that appealled to non-nerds. Everyone saw the first Star Wars when it came out, grandparents, stoner rock girls, jocks, not just comic book nerds.

That's the thing with Star Wars is the "fans" are all obsessed with geeky details like what's the relationship of the Empire/Republic and what are politics of it, what's a Super Star Destroyer vs. a Star Destroyer, what can a Jedi do versus what he can't do, etc. etc. ... here's a newflash ... the general public never gave a shit about any of that. 

Star Wars was always about fun, likable characters in a mythic, fairy tale like space opera, but it was about those characters first and foremost. Their struggles, their joys, their fear, their friendships. The rest of it was just window dressing. 

Somewhere along the way, George Lucas forgot this, and started making movies more focused on the politics, midichorlians, cartoon rabbits stepping in space dog shit, power levels, trade blockades, and all the other dull stuff and pushed the characters into the background. 

Nobody quotes any line from the prequels (unless it's to mock them), because none of the characters are relatable or likable in any way. But people constantly quote the OT all the time. 

And there you have it.  You just admitted that this film isn't for the real fans (comic book nerds as you call them), but for the general public. 

Oh, and please give me a quote from the new movie.  Maybe a joke by Finn?  Those were hilarious, huh?  Cool non-nerds love that stuff.  Indestructible women that can do everything and anything without effort or even a bit of struggle are hip too.  It's a sign of the times I guess...  I'm far to dorky get it or this super cool movie filled to brim with pure unadulterated awesomeness.  Time to make sure that my first issue of The New Mutants is still in mint condition.



Proud member of the SONIC SUPPORT SQUAD

Tag "Sorry man. Someone pissed in my Wheaties."

"There are like ten games a year that sell over a million units."  High Voltage CEO -  Eric Nofsinger

amp316 said:
Soundwave said:
amp316 said:

Yes, Episode VII was Lucas' idea.  He gave Disney his original stories for VII through IX to show what happened next in his universe.  Disney said , " Screw it!  Let's just make a movie for the "fans".



 

No they opted to make a movie that brought back the fun nature of the original movie that appealled to non-nerds. Everyone saw the first Star Wars when it came out, grandparents, stoner rock girls, jocks, not just comic book nerds.

That's the thing with Star Wars is the "fans" are all obsessed with geeky details like what's the relationship of the Empire/Republic and what are politics of it, what's a Super Star Destroyer vs. a Star Destroyer, what can a Jedi do versus what he can't do, etc. etc. ... here's a newflash ... the general public never gave a shit about any of that. 

Star Wars was always about fun, likable characters in a mythic, fairy tale like space opera, but it was about those characters first and foremost. Their struggles, their joys, their fear, their friendships. The rest of it was just window dressing. 

Somewhere along the way, George Lucas forgot this, and started making movies more focused on the politics, midichorlians, cartoon rabbits stepping in space dog shit, power levels, trade blockades, and all the other dull stuff and pushed the characters into the background. 

Nobody quotes any line from the prequels (unless it's to mock them), because none of the characters are relatable or likable in any way. But people constantly quote the OT all the time. 

And there you have it.  You just admitted that this film isn't for the real fans (comic book nerds as you call them), but for the general public. 

Oh, and please give me a quote from the new movie.  Maybe a joke by Finn?  Those were hilarious, huh?  Cool non-nerds love that stuff.  Indestructible women that can do everything and anything without effort or even a bit of struggle are hip too.  It's a sign of the times I guess...  I'm far to dorky get it or this super cool movie filled to brim with pure unadulterated awesomeness.  Time to make sure that my first issue of The New Mutants is still in mint condition.

Nope he said this film is for everyone, everyone includes fan. You can enjoy the movie if you allow yourself to, but youre too caught up in the fact that Rey is a powerfull jedi. Super powerfull male characters have been plentyfull and no one have problems with them, Swazeneger is one on every movie he ever made and he isnt even a jedi, but Rey somehow is a problem, even tough she clearly has training in hand to hand combat and lived 20 years alone in a planet full of criminals where she either learned to figth and fend for herlself or died, and its still up in the air if she has or has not ever had jedi training.

And amongst the 92% viewer aproval this movie have Im pretty sure theres millions of handcore fans (me included) that read books, comics, watch the animated series and some even like the prequels a bit. JJ Abrahms put the franchise back on track, now Ep VIII is free to go wherever it like, it recaptured the spirit of what made Srar Wars great, gave us awesome characters and an interesting story that still has a lot to give.

And I can give you at least 1 quote: "you will remove these restraints and leave this cell with the door open". "Ill tighten those restraints you rebel scum!!!"