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The Force Awakens sucks! *MAJOR SPOILERS*

Forums - Movies Discussion - The Force Awakens sucks! *MAJOR SPOILERS*

OP Try watching A New Hope again and think about the criticism you've made about The Force Awakens. You'll find that when introducing a new saga, that's intended to run across multiple films/episodes, the writers do not reveal all unnecessary back story just for the sake of it straight way. Just as is the case with the originals, more will come - be patient and enjoy it for what it is, the brilliant rebooting of an awesome story.



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Virlando said:

1. I am sory mate but you need to see this. If one can easily deflect or just stop incoming laser shots, then one can easily do that with another single shot from far distance. Unless he doesn't consider wookies to be any good at shooting, or maybe he thinks that shot from a crossbow won't do to much harm to him. It's just silly and unexplainable. One way he is perfect of what he's doing, and the other he doesn't know how to do it any more. Just bad writing if you ask me. 

2. And when it comes to Ray... and her knowledge of the force. Why something so serious as the force, and so intelligently ballanced now becomes nothing special really. Just something that happens like that and no one needs any master ever. It was a long journey for Luke to know how to use the force. And I can accept that she can sense something, because she was told that the force exists and she can now be aware of that and find herself sensitive about it. But I will never accept the fact that she can beat someone properly trained as a Jedi/Sith the same day she learned she might be talented. This is just another misunderstanding.

The movie, overal, has very serious problem being sensible. 

Dude... Kylo Ren just killed his dad. It's perfectly explainable why he didn't dodge this one shot.





I must say I can understand the criticism behind it being very similar to A New Hope. It certainly borrow some elements from that movie. But I find it fresh. The characters are not remotely similar to those of that film. And the villain is entirely different to Darth Vader. I see the movie as an fabulous tribute to that film, while presenting some new and interesting characters. And we can't talk about plot holes, because it's intended to be a trilogy. So let's wait, and then we'll see.



superchunk said:

1) He was not clued in or stable due to killing his father. How could you not see that in his expressions / emotions and the movie had just shown numerous times how powerful the crossbow was... as in far more powerful than other blasters.

But you don't know that. There is one thing that he couldn't choose on which side he wants to be and he chooses on this platform killing his father. But there is another explanation for this: he knew what he wants to do and he was playing, luring Solo to come closer. I don't know if this moment should be very plain or not but it doesn't matter. I never saw Jedi/Sith died like this or get a shot. Now, someone would like to think that he didn't defend against this shot for a reason, to punish himself. It doesn't matter. The story lacks reasoning. If Chewie saw him taking a shot already, why didn't he finished him in the first place? There wasn't any better chance to do this. It's another silly thing in this. Oh, I shot him, he killed my best friend, now he's bleeding, cool, that is enough for me, let's head to the ship and forget about what happen. Stupid things happened throughout the movie but no one seems to care about it. I am speaking about the storyline... it wasn't good. To many things happened by chance. Actually all of it... And tell me. If Ray was so strong with the force, why she didn't use it before, but just let him trap herself. Things Kylo Ren did before doesn't allow me to think that he wasn't properly trained. We've been there and we saw what he was capable of doing. Power of the blaster has nothing to do with it. It's about the force and focus. Besides, if the Crossbow was so powerful, then it would blast him off of that ramp he was standing on, like it did with the armored stormtrooper before. Again, lack of consistancy. The only reason he was shot in my opinion was to make his fight with the others more explainable. Just to let you think that he was wounded (he didn't seem to be to be honest) and so the fight would go according to what they visioned for the storyline, so they had an excuse. And that is a bad written story too, to look for excuses in the least appropriate way. So, I need you to ask yourself, maybe you didn't pay attention. I love STAR WARS and I will forever. But I care about it even more now, because I truly believed that no one can make it so uneven and unreasonable.

superchunk said:

2) It didn't just happen. She touched Luke's/Vader's light saber and had the vision. She was told how to listen to the force. The trauma of being force mind raped by kylo ren all pushed her to begin to feel the force. Luke started the same way when he started to deflect laser shots in the melinnium falcon with helmet on or anakin as a boy and his reflexes during pod racing. No different. Lastly, kylo ren is no master. He's not 'properly trained'. That was evident in the movie more times than can be counted especially at the end when it is explicitly stated.

ya'll people are just not paying attention.

Yes, my friend, she had a vision. I don't like that part at all. I don't like the fact that she touched an item and she had a vision. She didn't need to touch anything, if you asked me, to had a vision. But I won't focus on this, it's a minor thing. I love Ray, she was played by great actress, so natural that I'd love to see her again in STAR WARS and I will. But it's not her fault that the story was weakly composed. Luke had a Master to train him. And remember, we don't know how often he had those trainings with Obi One, and how many lessons about the force. The movie doesn't show everything. And after trainings he didn't use the force at all. He did it only with the help of Obi-One when shooting to the Death Star. He was influenced, he had him by his side through the force. Ray didn't know nothing. Didn't experience anything like this before. Anakin never used force but only his relfexes. So I won't go any deeper into this, just to say it WAS different case scenario. And Kylo Ren may not be a Master, I bet he isn't, but you cannot say, after wat you did see in the movie, that he wasn't properly trained. You saw what he was capabe of doing. And that's pretty it. 

My friend, I wish that this episode VII would do it for me, and I was actually sure that it will be amazing. But I am disappointed. I could forget about all the things that annoyed me but again, I like to be true to myself. I saw what I saw. He played on us, tricked us, used those little bricks of nostalgia to build the wall behind which lies ignorance and lack of story. I wasn't expecting that for sure.

I really care about STAR WARS as I said before, that's why I won't remain silent on this.





DarthVolod said:

I pretty much agree with everything the op said ... maybe taking it too far to say it was worse than the prequels, but yeah it was pretty disgusting.

Credit where credit is due, I did enjoy Harrision Ford's performance (he basically carries the 2nd act), and I liked the idea of Finn's character as a traitor stormtrooper it was one of the few original ideas in the film (ok so it wasn't 100% original as it happened in the expanded universe with other characters but still). Also, Finn was at least presented as a likable character with flaws and talents that make sense considering his upbringing ... unlike godmode Rey that is a master in piloting, engineering, lightsaber duels, the use of the force and being a world class athlete that can climb / scale anything all without any training and while spending her life as an orphan scrapping old ships for bread rations...

Don't get me started on Supreme Leader Snookie (as I call him). I have seen Scooby Doo villains with more menace than whatever that thing was supposed to be. That name alone ... I never thought I would hear a sith name more silly than Count Dooku, but Abrams topped it.

 

Her life as a scavenger does explain a good portion of her talents. In the beginning you see that looking for scrap parts requires her scalling huge abandonned ships. We also see that she always carries her staff with her and it's easy to understand that fights must occur quite often over scraps which means that in order to survive she had to learn to fight. Her skill with the staff translate to fighting with other weapons like the lightsaber. Also, she has to be able to tell the valuable, good quality scraps from the worthless crap so that explains why she knows apart ships parts and engineering.

I'll give you that I don't know where she gets her pilotting skills from though as someone living from ration to ration wouldn't be able to afford a ship.



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WolfpackN64 said:
Virlando said:

1. I am sory mate but you need to see this. If one can easily deflect or just stop incoming laser shots, then one can easily do that with another single shot from far distance. Unless he doesn't consider wookies to be any good at shooting, or maybe he thinks that shot from a crossbow won't do to much harm to him. It's just silly and unexplainable. One way he is perfect of what he's doing, and the other he doesn't know how to do it any more. Just bad writing if you ask me. 

2. And when it comes to Ray... and her knowledge of the force. Why something so serious as the force, and so intelligently ballanced now becomes nothing special really. Just something that happens like that and no one needs any master ever. It was a long journey for Luke to know how to use the force. And I can accept that she can sense something, because she was told that the force exists and she can now be aware of that and find herself sensitive about it. But I will never accept the fact that she can beat someone properly trained as a Jedi/Sith the same day she learned she might be talented. This is just another misunderstanding.

The movie, overal, has very serious problem being sensible. 

Dude... Kylo Ren just killed his dad. It's perfectly explainable why he didn't dodge this one shot.



Ye, from that point on Kylo just isnt himself, hes head is not there, he is conflicted you can see hes far from 100%.


@Virlando youre complaining about Rey having a vision seriously ? Theres this thing in the Star Wars universe called The Force, and thats how The Force works, Force visions is one of the most commong manifestation of The Force and happens even to younglings that are sensitive and never even tought about training. The movie makes it very clear that Rey is very strong with the Force, its more than natural for her to have a Force vision after coming in contact with the lightsaber of another very powerfull Force user. If you dont like the Force being exactly like it always was on a Star Wars movie, maybe you shouldnt be watchign a Star Wars movie.



Holy crap you totally put what I was thinking into words amp.

I also hated the two other things I hated about this film that they did in TPM.

1. The black comic relief character - The worst part of TPM (jarjar) and they have the gal to try it again. Whats almost even worse is that he is doing an American accent when it would have been more natural to him and probably would have been a better performance if he used his native British accent. What a waste of a role that could have been something exceptional if the script wasn't so crap.

2. multiple things going on in the end battle - I think they wanted it to be more like ROJ but man they just should have focused on just blowing up the deathstar 3 ( or whatever its called.) What they did in a new hope was perfect , just focus on blowing it up,but man those swaps between events just gave me TPM vibes again.

I also hated how they Ninja gaiden 3/ Spiderman 3 the villan so freaking stupid.

I also am nitpicking that Rey is shown being pretty good with a bowstaff and then at the end she is also a master with a lightsabre. Different weapons people. Even the ninja turtles know this. (I can't believe I would see more logic in ninja turtles than star wars.)

I also hated the winks and nods by saying the old lines. Felt stupid in the star trek movies and its worse in this one.


I would say the only improvement of this film is that when it can it uses practical effects, I thought that was a great choice.

I can't believe people are calling this movie good, no less great and a return to form for the series. I even kept myself in the dark for the last week just to avoid any hint of spoiler and now I am just over this stupid manufactured hype. I almost would have put this above attack of the clones but then I remembered that movie had Christopher Lee and Samuel L Jackson who out acted anyone in this film ( including Ford.)

What a waste of time, talent, and money.



don't waste time

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WolfpackN64 said:

Dude... Kylo Ren just killed his dad. It's perfectly explainable why he didn't dodge this one shot.

I understand your point of view. I respect it my friend. But it doesn't change my mind. Read my answer for 'superchunk' above, please.

I am just into little things. So many little things that made this movie bad for me. And the big things? The big things like seeing my old heroes, x-wings, tie fighters, millenium falcon, etc... Those big things should be small things next to big story plot. It wasn't the case...





 

Ye, from that point on Kylo just isnt himself, hes head is not there, he is conflicted you can see hes far from 100%.

Please read my answer for superchunk on this matter. 

@Virlando youre complaining about Rey having a vision seriously ? Theres this thing in the Star Wars universe called The Force, and thats how The Force works, Force visions is one of the most commong manifestation of The Force and happens even to younglings that are sensitive and never even tought about training. The movie makes it very clear that Rey is very strong with the Force, its more than natural for her to have a Force vision after coming in contact with the lightsaber of another very powerfull Force user. If you dont like the Force being exactly like it always was on a Star Wars movie, maybe you shouldnt be watchign a Star Wars movie.

My friend, I am not speaking about the vision itself, I am saying that she didn't need to touch anything to have a vision. That's my point. Visions are something very common in the Universe. I understand the visions, but they're coming from the force not from any objects used as triggers.



Virlando said:

But you don't know that. There is one thing that he couldn't choose on which side he wants to be and he chooses on this platform killing his father. But there is another explanation for this: he knew what he wants to do and he was playing, luring Solo to come closer. I don't know if this moment should be very plain or not but it doesn't matter. I never saw Jedi/Sith died like this or get a shot. Now, someone would like to think that he didn't defend against this shot for a reason, to punish himself. It doesn't matter. The story lacks reasoning. If Chewie saw him taking a shot already, why didn't he finished him in the first place? There wasn't any better chance to do this. It's another silly thing in this. Oh, I shot him, he killed my best friend, now he's bleeding, cool, that is enough for me, let's head to the ship and forget about what happen. Stupid things happened throughout the movie but no one seems to care about it. I am speaking about the storyline... it wasn't good. To many things happened by chance. Actually all of it... And tell me. If Ray was so strong with the force, why she didn't use it before, but just let him trap herself. Things Kylo Ren did before doesn't allow me to think that he wasn't properly trained. We've been there and we saw what he was capable of doing. Power of the blaster has nothing to do with it. It's about the force and focus. Besides, if the Crossbow was so powerful, then it would blast him off of that ramp he was standing on, like it did with the armored stormtrooper before. Again, lack of consistancy. The only reason he was shot in my opinion was to make his fight with the others more explainable. Just to let you think that he was wounded (he didn't seem to be to be honest) and so the fight would go according to what they visioned for the storyline, so they had an excuse. And that is a bad written story too, to look for excuses in the least appropriate way. So, I need you to ask yourself, maybe you didn't pay attention. I love STAR WARS and I will forever. But I care about it even more now, because I truly believed that no one can make it so uneven and unreasonable.

No, he was obviously troubled the whole movie between dark and light. It's obvious that he's not sure on what to do when he first encountered Solo, as it was stated in the film that he has his doubts about the dark side. And plenty of Jedis were shot on the saga. Look at the Order 66 on Revenge of the sith. Or that colisseum scene on Attack of the Clones. 

About Rey, she was awakening (you see, the movie is called The Force Awakens from some reason), and we see her improving her powers in that scene with the Stormtrooper when she was captured. So, no, she didn't know how to use The Force before, that's very, very obvious. She's learning. Force is awakening in her. More, you are complaining because Ren is not powerful. Well, you saw all the movie how powerful that Chewbacca's crossbow is. So it's impressive that he could take the shot and not being killed. Which proves he was actually severely wounded in that battle. And how do you not see that he is severely wounded? Jesus, he was just hitting himself the whole fight because of the pain. I don't want to be rude, but I think you missed some parts of the movie, or just don't pay attention and think it's inconsistent, and it's not. It has its flaws, true. Like taking an awful lot of references from A New Hope. But it's fairly consistent.