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(Rumour) Rise of the Tomb Raider sells less than 200k in November (U.S.)

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PxlStorm said:
Who thought releasing this alongside Fallout 4 was a good idea?

No one on vgc did... and if we knew it was a bad idea, the guys in management must have known as well.

Which is why people in this thread are makeing up conspiracy theorys to explain why it was done.





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binary solo said:
MS bought the exclusivity and then decided to ignore the game, except when it came to list wars. The literally did the minimum necessary under whatever obligations they had in the contract and left the game to its own devices. Who the hell does a retailer exclusive bundle for a fecking platform exclusive game? That's an outrage.

I am really mad at MS. Not because they have RoTR exclusive for a year, but because they put the survival of the franchise at risk. PC and PS4 are going to have to save the day, and a game should never be put into that kind of position. Especially since there is no guarantee at all that PC and PS4 can save the day.

I am soo pissed at the complete bullshit spin that came out of Crystal Dynamics when the exclusivity was announced. MS are great partners blah blah, take the franchise to the next level blah blah (paraphrasing here). Looking back on that PR crap and seeing what little effort MS actually put into helping to sell the game about the only obvious contribution MS made was handing over a wad of cash to keep the game off PS4. And making a few Tomb Raider themed cardboard boxes.

Terrible to say, but this is exactly what happened. MS bought exclusivity and then left it to die.

I doubt S-E/MS relations are the same after this trash. They bought to say "Look, we have an Uncharted-type game!". Then when Uncharted got pushed back they no longer gave a damn.

 

This deal may have likely killed the franchise.

 

If I were S-E, I would not trust MS with exclusivity for a 4-5M selling franchise, especially when they show they don't give a damn. They can really only wait until summer, after Uncharted releases, to release TR on PS4, complete with all DLC and a $40 price tag in hopes that sales are high enough to keep the franchise worth investing further.

 

S-E seriously F'd up by trusting the franchises future with MS. Sucks to say it, but that's the truth.



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Euphoria14 said:
binary solo said:
MS bought the exclusivity and then decided to ignore the game, except when it came to list wars. The literally did the minimum necessary under whatever obligations they had in the contract and left the game to its own devices. Who the hell does a retailer exclusive bundle for a fecking platform exclusive game? That's an outrage.

I am really mad at MS. Not because they have RoTR exclusive for a year, but because they put the survival of the franchise at risk. PC and PS4 are going to have to save the day, and a game should never be put into that kind of position. Especially since there is no guarantee at all that PC and PS4 can save the day.

I am soo pissed at the complete bullshit spin that came out of Crystal Dynamics when the exclusivity was announced. MS are great partners blah blah, take the franchise to the next level blah blah (paraphrasing here). Looking back on that PR crap and seeing what little effort MS actually put into helping to sell the game about the only obvious contribution MS made was handing over a wad of cash to keep the game off PS4. And making a few Tomb Raider themed cardboard boxes.

Terrible to say, but this is exactly what happened. MS bought exclusivity and then left it to die.

I doubt S-E/MS relations are the same after this trash. They bought to say "Look, we have an Uncharted-type game. Then when Uncharted got pushed back they no longer gave a damn.

 

This deal may have likely killed the franchise.

 

If I were S-E, I would not trust MS with exclusivity for a 4-5M selling franchise, especially when they show they don't give a damn.

 

PC and PS4 ain't going to save the day.  By the time, it comes out on PS4 (late 2016), it'll be a forgotten game.   As for PC, people are not going to pay full price either.  I'm waiting until a cheap Steam sale (< $10). 






bevochan said:
Euphoria14 said:
binary solo said:
MS bought the exclusivity and then decided to ignore the game, except when it came to list wars. The literally did the minimum necessary under whatever obligations they had in the contract and left the game to its own devices. Who the hell does a retailer exclusive bundle for a fecking platform exclusive game? That's an outrage.

I am really mad at MS. Not because they have RoTR exclusive for a year, but because they put the survival of the franchise at risk. PC and PS4 are going to have to save the day, and a game should never be put into that kind of position. Especially since there is no guarantee at all that PC and PS4 can save the day.

I am soo pissed at the complete bullshit spin that came out of Crystal Dynamics when the exclusivity was announced. MS are great partners blah blah, take the franchise to the next level blah blah (paraphrasing here). Looking back on that PR crap and seeing what little effort MS actually put into helping to sell the game about the only obvious contribution MS made was handing over a wad of cash to keep the game off PS4. And making a few Tomb Raider themed cardboard boxes.

Terrible to say, but this is exactly what happened. MS bought exclusivity and then left it to die.

I doubt S-E/MS relations are the same after this trash. They bought to say "Look, we have an Uncharted-type game. Then when Uncharted got pushed back they no longer gave a damn.

 

This deal may have likely killed the franchise.

 

If I were S-E, I would not trust MS with exclusivity for a 4-5M selling franchise, especially when they show they don't give a damn.

 

PC and PS4 ain't going to save the day.  By the time, it comes out on PS4 (late 2016), it'll be a forgotten game.   As for PC, people are not going to pay full price either.  I'm waiting until a cheap Steam sale (< $10). 

I believe the same. The franchise, if not dead, is severely damaged.

No longer will S-E devote millions into making top notch TR titles.

 

MS fucked it up. Sorry to say, but I have never viewed MS as a company that valued gaming as a whole. This further fuels this belief.





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Hiku said:

We don't know the expected numbers, but it's fairly obvious they didn't expect them to be this low.
And a deal can definitely be worth it without the other party taking the full risk. If things go at least according to the minimum projections, then the amount you were paid to make it worth your while on top of the rest will be the reward. But as soon as things start to deviate from the plan, those losses cut into the 'bonus' you recieved. Part of the responsibility for Tomb Raider selling well also falls on Crystal Dynamics ability to deliver a good game.

As for the GTA IV deal, GTA is in a different league than Tomb Raider. Would you really call it much of a risk when it was the sequel to the 7th best selling game of all time?  If 1,25 million people bought the DLC on X360, which is around 11% of the GTA IV install base on 360, MS would have made back the $50m loan. Which creates a strange situation for Take Two, where they would be gravely disappointed with 'only' 1,25m sales for eachwellthe DLC episodes on 360, as each sale up to that point would lose them money.

As for PS3/PS4/PC, this sitaution is a bit different comepared to other games that have arrived late to those systems as it's been surrounded by a lot of negative backlash from the community.

Bottom line, we don't know enough about SE and MS's deal. You just wanna assume SE is getting the bad end of the deal. Personally, I dont believe SE would get involved with MS unless they took all the risks. Thats how MS gets exclusives, taking the risks.

Tomb Raider isnt in the same league as GTA, but MS didnt buy exclusivity of a complete GTA game. They bought DLC exclusivity.

You think they only need to sell 1.25 million units to make back a 50 million dollar investment? No. It wasnt 60 dollar DLC either.



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asqarkabab said:

So that means that square shot themselves in the foot by making rotr one year exclusive on the bone

No. They shot themselves in the head by releasing this during F4's release...

Chris Hu said:

LOL at these comments. I'm not saying it did great but it did far from terrible considering games that where launched around the same time. You want to see terrible numbers for a sequel then look up the numbers for Wii Fit U.

Indeed...

Madword said:
There was that one guy who said TR would not be affected by FO4 sales....

As for TR, it was obvious... I don't see the PS4/PC versions being able to rescue the mess they have created for themselves. I'll bite when it's sub £20 on ps4... so probably dec 16 price cut time

He must've been drunk...

hentaihinata said:
MS killed Tomb Raider

They also created IS, funded Trump's campaign and caused global warming... next, they will shoot your dog...



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Warning: This poster has a very negative opinion of Sony and Nintendo, Idea Factory and companies Tecmo Koei, EA, BioWare, Blizzard, Treyarch, Infinity Ward, Kadokawa and Sega. If you have very positive views of these and a negative view of Microsoft or Bethesda Game Studios, AVOID ENGAGEMENT AT ALL COSTS! 

    Lmao, this one wins comment of the year. The Uncharted series has been up against bigger competition in the past, and look how well it performed. Against the bugfest that is every overrated Bethesda game ever, Sony nor ND weren't worried. If they need to polish and test to clean up bugs a bit, I highly consider it the most likely scenario. Back on topic, SE doesn't learn from their mistakes. Their main audience is on Sony and Nintendo platforms.



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    PxlStorm said:
    Who thought releasing this alongside Fallout 4 was a good idea?

    "The challenge with Tomb Raider is if you go a week later you’re against Star Wars Battlefront, if you go a week earlier you’ll be against Call of Duty Black Ops 3 and if you go two weeks earlier you’re against Halo. And then you go late and then you’re like well, the consumer doesn’t have any money left to buy the game so there wasn’t a better scenario for us except that was the week it was not going head to head against Call of Duty or Star Wars Battlefront. We felt like the Fallout audience-they are not direct competitors per se, but you are right, it’s two big, big titles launching at the same time and we hope people will buy both.”

    -Aaron Greenberg

    http://egmr.net/2015/10/microsoft-chose-to-pit-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-against-fallout-4-instead-of-star-wars/



    Aerys said:
    And to say Microsoft hoped to be able to fight Uncharted 4 with this, they couldnt even match the level of the collection , this partnership is catastrophic for everyone involved, Microsoft who spent ton of money for nothing , Square Enix who will have to wait 1 year to get the money from the game they developped , the développer and tomb raider who didnt deserve it but are dishonored by all this story.
    Thanks Microsoft

     


    well we dont know how much microsoft paid, nor how much square and microsoft expected to sell.

    but yes, it would appear unless MS paid a crazy amount, that square got less than they bargained for, and if MS did pay a huge amount, then they got the raw end of the deal. reguardless, it appears it was bad all around, but without dollar tags, and sales expectations we cant know for sure.

    but it would seem this damaged the brand, even though the game is seemingly great.

    i for one thinks it looks awesome, but wont buy an xbox for it, and wont buy it new when it comes to PS4, i will buy used. because i want to play this great game, but do not wish to reward square



     

    Mr Puggsly said:
    Hiku said:

    We don't know the expected numbers, but it's fairly obvious they didn't expect them to be this low.
    And a deal can definitely be worth it without the other party taking the full risk. If things go at least according to the minimum projections, then the amount you were paid to make it worth your while on top of the rest will be the reward. But as soon as things start to deviate from the plan, those losses cut into the 'bonus' you recieved. Part of the responsibility for Tomb Raider selling well also falls on Crystal Dynamics ability to deliver a good game.

    As for the GTA IV deal, GTA is in a different league than Tomb Raider. Would you really call it much of a risk when it was the sequel to the 7th best selling game of all time?  If 1,25 million people bought the DLC on X360, which is around 11% of the GTA IV install base on 360, MS would have made back the $50m loan. Which creates a strange situation for Take Two, where they would be gravely disappointed with 'only' 1,25m sales for eachwellthe DLC episodes on 360, as each sale up to that point would lose them money.

    As for PS3/PS4/PC, this sitaution is a bit different comepared to other games that have arrived late to those systems as it's been surrounded by a lot of negative backlash from the community.

    Bottom line, we don't know enough about SE and MS's deal. You just wanna assume SE is getting the bad end of the deal. Personally, I dont believe SE would get involved with MS unless they took all the risks. Thats how MS gets exclusives, taking the risks.

    Tomb Raider isnt in the same league as GTA, but MS didnt buy exclusivity of a complete GTA game. They bought DLC exclusivity.

    I just want to assume? Let's take a look at our initial posts, and see who's making the unsubstantiated assumptions here.

    You: I dont know why people are so worked up about this. The series isnt in danger. MS likely covered the risks financially of going exclusive. Why else would it go exclusive?

    You proclaim that the series isn't in danger, before it even reached the neccesary sales for it to become successful. And then say it's 'likely' that MS took the full risk. Yeah, that's how business usually works. One company takes all the risks, when both have responsibilities for the outcome of the sales. Sure.
    Now here's my comment.

    Me: Because they got paid based on a number of factors, and one thing they factored in were expected sales. (Plus some more to make it worthwhile.) These sales however are likely much lower than they imagined. And there's no guarantee that it's going to sell well on PS4 and PC 6-12 months later either.

    Unlike you, I didn't make any claims about whether the series is in danger or not. I've suggested the possibility which you casually dismiss, and why it can happen. And the assumptions I made here are the fairly obvious ones. Without going into any special conditions in the contract besides the norm. Basing the amount of money on various performance factors.
    So you proclaiming that the series isn't in danger, and that it's likely that there's a special clause in the contract putting all the risk at MS, and me pointing out the things you're not considering in your posts equals me wanting that to be the case? So anyone correcting your unsubstantiated claims means they want that to happen? You'll have to explain your train of thought here. The only thing I don't like is when people unsubstantially dismiss possibilities, like you did.

    And where from my post did you get that this would mean that SE took all the risk? Please point that out, because nowhere did it suggest this. If the game doesn't sell well, that obviously impacts MS negatively as well, regardless. They're paying for this because they hope it'll bring them some profit and benefit over Sony. Whether that be additional consoles sold, or something else. Didn't think I'd have to point out something so obvious.

    Tomb Raider isnt in the same league as GTA, but MS didnt buy exclusivity of a complete GTA game. They bought DLC exclusivity.

    Point being that investing in a franchise that's among the best selling of all time, and that investment being paid back if the DLC has an 11% attach rate, is hardly a good example of taking big risks.

    You think they only need to sell 1.25 million units to make back a 50 million dollar investment? No. It wasnt 60 dollar DLC either.

    I said 'if 1,25 million people bought the DLC on X360', refering to both DLC episodes. $20 for each, meaning $40 for both. 40x1.25 = 50.
    That's around 11% of the userbase of the 360 version, according to this site. If that was indeed the deal, then Take Two must have expected more DLC sales than 1,25m. Otherwise there's the risk of them losing any profit.