Yeah, that's why I said "pretty much irrelevant". There are going to be times when it is relevant. TBH a better use of racebending would be to make Mr Fantastic black and keep the Storms as actual siblings. But y'know making the brainy guy black is just a step too far right? Of course an acceptable race swap for the people who think the white race is under threat would be to make The Thing originally black. Once he goes orange and rocky it's just his black sas to give some comic relief that makes him stand out, and that would be fun, right?

Changing a character from white to black is just pure pandering. Just like the black James Bond. There are more Asian people in the UK than black and, yet, everyone is clamouring for a black James Bond but not an Asian one.

You call it pandering. A lot of us would call it progressive. Generally, I think casting should be race-blind unless race is intrinsic to the character identity. So, the characters from The Last Airbender, which starred characters from specific racial groups steeped, in a world steeped in Asian-inspired lore? Don't white wash those. But an upscale slave owner in the pre-Civil War south? Definitely keep him white. But Johnny Storm, a character created by a company composed almost entirely by white people, at a time when a black super hero wasn't even a THING yet? Who the heck cares what color he is. The biggest issue with him would be how you justify not also having Sue Storm be black since they are supposed to be siblings. There is nothing about the Human Torch that screams "HE'S GOTTA BE WHITE" aside from the fact that thats how he was orignally designed. You know what? Nick Fury was ALSO white. But Samuel L. Jackson still does a spectacular job playing him. There was nothing about Nick's character that screamed "I am a white man." No, he was just a grizzled, aged, one-eyed spy, and making him black didn't change any of that. That wasn't "pandering", that was just great casting in a world where having black people in places of power isn't as crazy as it was when Nick Fury was first created back in the 60s. Same goes for Heimdall, a norse god from the Thor movies, a role that was frankly a waste of Idris Elba's talents.

And really, that illustrates a problem with a lot of franchises that are several decades old: the characters tend to be white people. That's the primary reason why Marvel movies have so little variety in their casting. The heroes are mostly men, mostly white, and in the case of Avengers they've got more green people than black people, let alone other races.

I'm clamoring more for an IDRIS ELBA Bond than just a black Bond per-se. But unfortunately, Elba is already in his 40s, so he's probably too old at this point.

An asian Bond would be neat, so long as he still has his roots in Scotland.

In any case, this is way off-topic. You seem to have abandoned defending the idea that F4 somehow failed because it had a black Human Torch (just to reiterate: that wasn't the problem). I know I'll never be able to talk you into believing any of this, so I guess I'll just leave it here.

It is pure pandering because how else do you show that you're "progressive" than by changing a character from white to black? This is why you never see racebending from one to a different one.

The movie failed more because of the marketing than the racebending but I still think fans refused to support a studio which couldn't stay true to the characters.

The 1 on 1 on the boat was against Batroc the Leader. A hightly skilled and trained martial artist. It's like different levels of boxing. Cap would be a heavyweight and punch hardest, Batroc would be a middleweight and be able to take the punches from the heavyweight but he is obviously outclassed and then the normal soldiers on the boat would be equivilent to me. No training just fit-ish, both the boxers classes above could knock me out in one punch.

There always will be inconsistencies in these films though as there are in comics and games as works of fiction have to fit the scenario and so powerlevels change because of it. Cap's strength is generally considered that he can lift 1500lbs. He's strong but he's not Thor strong, heck Toad can kick harder than Cap can.

You are right on the last point, Marvel wouldn't do a Deadpool film like that and I'm glad that is coming.

You underestimate cap as he has picked up thors hammer in the comics. :) 

You know full well that has nothing to do with 'strength'.

As an Asian (mostly) born American with an ethnic mixed daughter, there is too much pandering.  But for the record, Samuel L. Jackson makes a great Nick Fury because his characterization fits the no-nonsense, bare nuckles, in-your-face militant attitude of the comic counter part.  That's true progessivism when the solution works because it's the proper to the scenario.  But by and large, "progressive" has been confused from bending forwards and taking it up the...

Just making a general statement here.  Heroes with superhuman strength tend to pull their punches to make sure they do not kill an ordinary human.  I'm not saying I know for a fact that this was the movie's intent.  But I remember this was stated in the rules of the Marvel Super Heroes Role Playing Game published by the now defunct TSR back in the late 80's.  When a character's full strength is greater that another character's health, the character receiving the blow could be killed.  And we know it's an unwritten/spoken general rule that heroes do not kill.  So you'd think this principle would apply in cinema as well.

Yeah, Samuel L Jackson makes a great Nick Fury, even though he aint the right skin color, because of progressive casting. Idris Elba, if he were five years younger, would make a great James Bond. And while I haven't seen Fantastic 4, I hear Michael B Jordon gives a pretty great performance in Creed. I think its fair to say these actors were hired and/or considered because they have talent and have some qualities that make them good for the role, not because they were black.

I'm a progressive. I agree with you. I think all but the most extreme progressively minded people probably would. Casting ought to be color blind when color isn't a part of the character's identity. I already said as much. I'm an optimistic white person, so maybe I just don't see it, but I can't really think of many instances of pandering when it comes to Hollywood movie casting. Most historically white characters remain white, and I haven't really gotten the impressions that any movies I've seen have made a big deal out of having a racially or sexually diverse cast.