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Forums - Politics Discussion - Turkey shoots down Russian warplane - 1 Russian marine confirmed death, 1 pilot confirmed death

poklane said:
Diablos said:
poklane said:

You clearly don't seem to be aware about what kind of alliance NATO is. NATO is a defensive alliance, not offensive. Sure, NATO countries can take on offensive measures if needed, but is in no way an offensive military alliance. Also, NATO didn't have any mutual defense treaties with Ukraine, something which you seem to have completely made up. Attacking NATO equals suicide, just admit it. NATO members could go as far as to start a genocide against Russians in former Russia occupied territories and Russia wouldn't do shit. Why? It's suicide.

Never said Ukraine was nato so stop making stuff up, they had signed a treatie and had sovereigntie guarentees for giving up their nukes.   Signiture on a paper means nothing.

Russia can nuke the whole world out of existance, nato nor anybody is doing shit to them.  Why its suicide.

No one is dying or starting a war over a few downed turkish airplanes. 

You're saying nobody will start a war over attacking the biggest defensive military alliance in history, yet you say and are hoping Russia might start a war over a single jet which was shot down due to their fault. Do you realize how stupid the shit you're saying right now is?

And like you said: Russia using nukes would nuke the world out of existance, which is suicide. If you and I were having a fist fight, would you fight with me until one of us surrenders or would you kill me knowing that if you kill me you'd also die? You'd probably fight me until one of us surrenders, just like Russia would fight a NATO-Russian war until one surrenders or goes for the diplomatic solution.

Stupid, watch your tone buddy.  If you are ignorant of the facts go educate your self.

"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed,” lieutenant general Sergey Rudskoy

Russia will fire and down turks when the see fit, West will bark loud and do nothing.  



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Diablos said:
poklane said:
Diablos said:
poklane said:

You clearly don't seem to be aware about what kind of alliance NATO is. NATO is a defensive alliance, not offensive. Sure, NATO countries can take on offensive measures if needed, but is in no way an offensive military alliance. Also, NATO didn't have any mutual defense treaties with Ukraine, something which you seem to have completely made up. Attacking NATO equals suicide, just admit it. NATO members could go as far as to start a genocide against Russians in former Russia occupied territories and Russia wouldn't do shit. Why? It's suicide.

Never said Ukraine was nato so stop making stuff up, they had signed a treatie and had sovereigntie guarentees for giving up their nukes.   Signiture on a paper means nothing.

Russia can nuke the whole world out of existance, nato nor anybody is doing shit to them.  Why its suicide.

No one is dying or starting a war over a few downed turkish airplanes. 

You're saying nobody will start a war over attacking the biggest defensive military alliance in history, yet you say and are hoping Russia might start a war over a single jet which was shot down due to their fault. Do you realize how stupid the shit you're saying right now is?

And like you said: Russia using nukes would nuke the world out of existance, which is suicide. If you and I were having a fist fight, would you fight with me until one of us surrenders or would you kill me knowing that if you kill me you'd also die? You'd probably fight me until one of us surrenders, just like Russia would fight a NATO-Russian war until one surrenders or goes for the diplomatic solution.

 

Stupid, watch your tone buddy.  If you are ignorant of the facts go educate your self.

"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed,” lieutenant general Sergey Rudskoy

Russia will fire and down turks when the see fit, West will bark loud and do nothing.  

Russia can say a lot of shit, but I guess I'll repeat what I've said a hundred times already: Russia attacking the biggest military alliance in the history of mankind will lead to war. NATO countries not backing Turkey would lead to every treaty, alliance etc. between NATO countries to completely fall apart. Big dogs don't bark toward smaller dogs, they bite them.

People like you also said Turkey wouldn't bite if a Russian aircraft violated its airspace, well Turkey sure as hell bit them!



poklane said:

Russia can say a lot of shit, but I guess I'll repeat what I've said a hundred times already: Russia attacking the biggest military alliance in the history of mankind will lead to war.

Judging by the tone of official note of said alliance, they don't give a shit about downed Turkish airplanes if those to be happen. After all they didn't care about the last one downed presumably by Syrians. There're plenty of Turkish targets on the ground in Syria and occaisonally in the airspace. Plus I could imagine a good deal of the Turkish airspace adjacent to Idlib region might be considered a no-fly zone during combat missions there from now on.



mai said:
poklane said:

Russia can say a lot of shit, but I guess I'll repeat what I've said a hundred times already: Russia attacking the biggest military alliance in the history of mankind will lead to war.

Judging by the tone of official note of said alliance, they don't give a shit about downed Turkish airplanes if those to be happen. After all they didn't care about the last one downed presumably by Syrians. There're plenty of Turkish targets on the ground in Syria and occaisonally in the airspace. Plus I could imagine a good deal of the Turkish airspace might be considered a no-fly zone during combat missions targeting Idlib groups of militants.

You're talking Turkish aircraft violating Syrian airspace, I'm talking Turkish aircraft in Turkish airspace. Big difference. IIRC there's even a NATO article which says Article 5 can't be invoked if a NATO country is the agressor, which a Turkish aircraft violating Syrian airspace would be.



poklane said:

You're talking Turkish aircraft violating Syrian airspace, I'm talking Turkish aircraft in Turkish airspace. Big difference. IIRC there's even a NATO article which says Article 5 can't be invoked if a NATO country is the agressor, which a Turkish aircraft violating Syrian airspace would be.

I'm not sure what airspace that was, both sides claimed directly opposite facts to one another. Given the grudge over Assad anything contradictory will be taken against him, if that wasn't enough to trigger alliance to steamroll Syria, nothing will. If MoD claims are anything close to reality that looks like Turkish initiative nobody will want to get involved with, since there're no benefits of the involement. Plus when we say alliance, we're really say the US, the US and RF so far have perfect understanding of each other if not on political level, but on the level of military representatives, that's for sure, hence the treaty.



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Oh dear, are they insane? That's like a child poking a bear with a stick.



poklane said:



http://live.aljazeera.com/Event/Turkey_downs_Russian_jet


At the speeds that these aircrafts fly at, 17 seconds is not really enough time to let them receed.  What's interesting here is that one of the warfighters was able to correct the violation and turn around in that 17 seconds but Turkey still fired on the other.  Seems to me like they wanted this to happen given the amount of time (or lack thereof) between the warnings and the actual confrontation.



Well, can't say I blame Turkey. You can't just enter other countries airspace willy nilly. They have every right to shoot you down. They already warned you once before.



poklane said:
mai said:
poklane said:

Russia can say a lot of shit, but I guess I'll repeat what I've said a hundred times already: Russia attacking the biggest military alliance in the history of mankind will lead to war.

Judging by the tone of official note of said alliance, they don't give a shit about downed Turkish airplanes if those to be happen. After all they didn't care about the last one downed presumably by Syrians. There're plenty of Turkish targets on the ground in Syria and occaisonally in the airspace. Plus I could imagine a good deal of the Turkish airspace might be considered a no-fly zone during combat missions targeting Idlib groups of militants.

You're talking Turkish aircraft violating Syrian airspace, I'm talking Turkish aircraft in Turkish airspace. Big difference. IIRC there's even a NATO article which says Article 5 can't be invoked if a NATO country is the agressor, which a Turkish aircraft violating Syrian airspace would be.

I decided to refresh my memory on the events surrounding Turkish F-4. Yes, Turks admitted the violation, but check that out (according to BBC):

Erdogan: "A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack"

Bwa-ha-ha, f**king brilliant :D It is so, really. If we're to shoot down every aircraft entering our airspace at the first sight, that would be a half of dozen aircrafts in a slow year.

Methinks this one was either overreaction (aka f**kup if violation even took place) or pre-planned on the part of the Turks.



mai said:
poklane said:
mai said:
poklane said:

Russia can say a lot of shit, but I guess I'll repeat what I've said a hundred times already: Russia attacking the biggest military alliance in the history of mankind will lead to war.

Judging by the tone of official note of said alliance, they don't give a shit about downed Turkish airplanes if those to be happen. After all they didn't care about the last one downed presumably by Syrians. There're plenty of Turkish targets on the ground in Syria and occaisonally in the airspace. Plus I could imagine a good deal of the Turkish airspace might be considered a no-fly zone during combat missions targeting Idlib groups of militants.

You're talking Turkish aircraft violating Syrian airspace, I'm talking Turkish aircraft in Turkish airspace. Big difference. IIRC there's even a NATO article which says Article 5 can't be invoked if a NATO country is the agressor, which a Turkish aircraft violating Syrian airspace would be.

I decided to refresh my memory on the events surrounding Turkish F-4. Yes, Turks admitted the violation, but check that out (according to BBC):

Erdogan: "A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack"

Bwa-ha-ha, f**king brilliant :D It is so, really. If we're to shoot down every aircraft entering our airspace at the first sight, that would be a half of dozen aircrafts in a slow year.

Methinks this one was either overreaction (aka f**kup if violation even took place) or pre-planned on the part of the Turks.

Erdogan is an idiot, what's new? Any border violation is a very good pretext for an attack.