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How much power would the NX need to perfectly emulate WiiU games?

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It shouldn't be hard. Xbox 360 to Xbox One is the same PPC to X86 jump that Wii U to NX will be. If Xbox can do it I can't see why NX wouldn't be able to. But the real question is will Nintendo want to?



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bunchanumbers said:
It shouldn't be hard. Xbox 360 to Xbox One is the same PPC to X86 jump that Wii U to NX will be. If Xbox can do it I can't see why NX wouldn't be able to. But the real question is will Nintendo want to?

I believe that BC is very important to Nintendo because they included this function in all their last consoles and handhelds. I think they will at least try to make it happen ;)



Pemalite said:

With that said... If I was in Nintendo's position, I wouldn't bother with backwards compatability with the Wii U at all.
The Wii U does not have a large games library or fanatical user base, they would be better off providing regular Wii comptability.

At this point, Wii compatibility should be something almost guaranteed (if Nintendo decides to keep the wiimotes compatible with the NX). Wii power shouldn't be a problem at this point.



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Pemalite said:

Emulation of the WiiU on the NX would be relatively trivial as the Wii U's hardware is relatively poor.

The PC emulates things far differently than how the Xbox One does emulation, the PC will "Brute force" it's way through as it will take an instruction, translate it  and often chop it into several other instructions to be executed on the host machine, which is why it requires orders-of-magnitude greater levels of hardware.

What Microsoft has done on the Xbox One is virtualised the Xbox 360's OS, created an API between the Xbox One's hardware and the VM layer and then repackaged the games, it has stupidly low overheads and fantastic accuracy, impossible to do on the PC without intimate knowledge of the hardware.
Before the Xbox One's release, people laughed at me on these forums when I said emulation was entirely possible on next gen and they pointed towards PS2 emulation as the example of the hardware required to achieve it, even after I provided a detailed analysis that says otherwise. (Obviously I got the last laugh, when Microsoft announced it. Suckers.)

The PS3 could also be emulated on the PS4.

But that is a Software approach.

If Nintendo opts for the Hardware method... Then all they will need is probably the CPU.
And if we shrink the CPU from 45nm down to a MODERN 14nm included in the SoC, then you are looking at an insignificant cost, we are probably talking cents here as the Wii U's CPU is only 50~ to 150~ Million transisters.
The Xbox One and Playstation 4 have 5~ Billion transister SoC's, with roughly 400-500 million transisters for the CPU units, the Nintendo NX could even be larger than that.
9~ Billion 28nm chips are available, 14nm would allow you to bring a 9~ Billion transister chip down to the size similar (Or smaller, depending on other factors) to that of the Xbox One or Playstation 4's SoC.

Essentially, allowing for hardware backwards compatability wouldn't be terribly expensive, the Wii U is built on an old node and was pretty conservative with it's transistor counts.


With that said... If I was in Nintendo's position, I wouldn't bother with backwards compatability with the Wii U at all.
The Wii U does not have a large games library or fanatical user base, they would be better off providing regular Wii comptability.

I don't even think what the Xbox One is doing is pure emulation to achieve backwards compatibility. I suspect that their straight up modifying binaries to achieve backwards compatibility since they need permission to change the source code ... 

That been said I think Nintendo could emulate the WII U if the CPU has comparable IPC to sandy bridge at moderate clocks ? Emulating the GPU is easier than I thought it would be since Cemu is getting by just fine with OpenGL 4 compared to other 7th gen emulators needing DX12/Vulkan but I guess Nintendo doesn't mess around a whole lot on a lower level compared to MS and Sony obsessing over a lot of the intricate details ...



The "emulation" that the Xbox one is using is similar to the emulation that Nintendo uses for its digital Wii games. They divorced the game part of the code from the game's Wii/360 engine and put it on a new engine to run on the Wii U/Xbox One. This is a slower process then emulating directly because to the engine needs to be tuned to each game to run correctly. The more specialized(i.e optimized) the engine was for the older console the more work they need to do to get it to run on the new hardware.

It's a feet brought to us by the industry adapting more OOP standards last generation which allows for modular like handling of programs. (Plug in play like where you can take out a section of code and insert new code to run on different machines)



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OVER 9000!! Gigaflops would be enough I think.

BlkPaladin said:
The "emulation" that the Xbox one is using is similar to the emulation that Nintendo uses for its digital Wii games. They divorced the game part of the code from the game's Wii/360 engine and put it on a new engine to run on the Wii U/Xbox One. This is a slower process then emulating directly because to the engine needs to be tuned to each game to run correctly. The more specialized(i.e optimized) the engine was for the older console the more work they need to do to get it to run on the new hardware.

It's a feet brought to us by the industry adapting more OOP standards last generation which allows for modular like handling of programs. (Plug in play like where you can take out a section of code and insert new code to run on different machines)

I heard the emulated Wii games on Wii U are basically all running the Wii OS.



Turkish said:

OVER 9000!! Gigaflops would be enough I think.

BlkPaladin said:
The "emulation" that the Xbox one is using is similar to the emulation that Nintendo uses for its digital Wii games. They divorced the game part of the code from the game's Wii/360 engine and put it on a new engine to run on the Wii U/Xbox One. This is a slower process then emulating directly because to the engine needs to be tuned to each game to run correctly. The more specialized(i.e optimized) the engine was for the older console the more work they need to do to get it to run on the new hardware.

It's a feet brought to us by the industry adapting more OOP standards last generation which allows for modular like handling of programs. (Plug in play like where you can take out a section of code and insert new code to run on different machines)

I heard the emulated Wii games on Wii U are basically all running the Wii OS.

To play the disc based games on the Wii channel it is using hardware backwards compatiblity and "switching to Wii hardware mode". The ones you download from the Wii U's eShop use an engine that is made to run on the Wii U. That is at least how Iwata put it when he announced Galaxy 2's release as the download.

http://kotaku.com/wii-games-will-finally-be-downloadable-on-wii-u-1679424895

 

If you watch the video in the link when they talk about the being able to use the Wii U's gamepad is an indication that they changed the engine of the game. (The io parts of the engine need to be reprogrammed to accept new forms of input.)



Nintendo looking more far then People think.. I sure wiiu just need 26 watts Because it Has been from the outset to become the mobile part of the NX... PowerPC wiiu is know for being not very powerfull... And don't forget wiiu OS run on ARM...

 

I don't think Nintendo looking for compatibilité but for easy port wiiu games 



bonzobanana said:
Thunderbird77 said:

The 360 is way less powerful than wii u in every way and so will x1 against NX (if NX is a home console.

In everyway? Main memory bandwidth is less, cpu benchmarks far less, gpu gflops may even be less if the wii u is 176 gflops even if the wii u gpu has a better feature set. Remember the wii u is on the same 45nm process and consumes far less power. Games that exist on both 360 and wii u almost always run better on 360 with often much higher frame rates. Some games are lower resolution on wii u like sonic racing transformed. Not forgetting the 360 also generates full 5.1 dolby surround sound where as wii u provides uncompressed sound data which requires less processing.

The one game that actually looks impressive on wii u, xenoblade actually has some very simplified mechanics like lack of collision detection and the developer also produced miracles on the humble wii with the original xenoblade game.

I have ps3, 360 and wii u and for technical accomplishment both ps3 and 360 easily beat wii u. I.e. their technically most advanced games are more impressive than wii u's.

Since the wii u was released the reality of the spec has slowly been realised and its been a downhill journey all the way. From what was something competitive with ps4 and xbone we are now at an understanding that it generally performs below ps3 and 360 on average. Most of  us realised I think at the beginning just how bad it was when almost every game was sub ps3/360 performance. It was always a ridiculously poor console sold at a hugely inflated price just like the wii before it.

I have no words for your lack of understanding of hardware. Luckly, your wishes won't change wii u's power.



Akeos said:

Nintendo looking more far then People think.. I sure wiiu just need 26 watts Because it Has been from the outset to become the mobile part of the NX... PowerPC wiiu is know for being not very powerfull... And don't forget wiiu OS run on ARM...

 

I don't think Nintendo looking for compatibilité but for easy port wiiu games 

WiiU OS runs on ARM?????? 

Anyway, an interesting fact is that both PowerPC and ARM are based on RISC architecture, just like most consoles in history. Thats a bit of hope.



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