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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Voice actors union authorizes strike! - now if there is no agreement it will happen

binary solo said:

That's a very ignorant thing to say. For every competent burger flipper at McDonalds there are 100 other people who can flip burgers as competently. There are not 100 people who could competently replace Ashley Johnson as Ellie in The Last of Us.

There is no reason actors shouldn't get royalties from video games in some form, because video games are not so very different from other acting work that they should be excluded from the industry norm of actors earning royalties. However I would argue that the level of royalties, and the circumstances under which royalties get paid should differ by degrees to take account of the differences that ar there compared to film, and TV. Games do not rely on big name actors to sell, therefore who the actor is is less important to a game's success, which means the royalties an actor gets for doing game voice work should be lower. And Actors should get paid a contract rate for the initial release of a game, and royalties should only kick in some time later. 

The problem with royalties (actually called residuals) is that under the traditional TV/movie model residuals are paid for re-use of the work:

"In the context of SAG television programs and films, the term residuals refers to the money actors receive when a production is reused. After the initial use, which is either the first run in the theatre or on television, the production company or distributor must pay the performers in order to show the motion picture or television program again. For work on a film, residuals are due if the movie appears on video or DVD (including Internet rental and/or download), basic cable, and free or pay television. For work on a television show, residuals are due if a show starts reruns on the same network or is released to video or DVD (including Internet rental and/or download), pay television, broadcast television, or basic cable. All performers hired under or upgraded to a principal-performer agreement whose performance remains in the final product receive residuals. Background actors do not receive them unless they are upgraded to principal performers."

Actors get no royalties / residuals for the first time a TV show is aired or for the theatrical release of a movie they only get residuals when there are re-runs/DVD releases and of course when a movie gets played on TV. But in the video game context what is "re-use"? you don't get video game re-runs, except for things like remasters and remakes that use original VA recordings.

SAG want's residuals to be paid for games selling over 2 million. But we all know that in some cases because budgets are getting huge selling 2 million may not be anywhere near break even. If you have financial transparency in contracts then you could say that residuals should kick in when a game has made an X% return, which means a game must have made profit before residuals can be claimed. If you force a publisher to pay residuals before a game becomes profitable then that can cause problems. And a game should become at least somewhat profitable before it should be regarded as sufficiently successful to warrant actors getting bonuses for their work. And of course if this becomes more like a bonus, then developers should also be up for bonuses when a game reaches a certain level of profitability.

VAs should get fair reward for their work, but I don't want their demands for residuals to wind up making it harder for publishers and developers to make a profit. 

The one bit of leverage that SAG has over the taking of VA work offshore so as not to be covered by the SAG contract is that if it's seen as a union-busting move then the foreign actors involved will be blacklisted for all work inside the USA, and most foreign actors (at least the English-speaking ones) have ambitions of working in Hollywood one day.


Fair and well thought out. I agree 100%.



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Sorry, but unless they drop the royalities stuff, I hope they don't get anything. They are replaceable, why can't they see that? And honestly, I couldn't care less about VA in games.



czecherychestnut said:
bananaking21 said:
what are they pissy about exactly?


They want to be paid royalties based on game sales, like actors get for movies, instead of short term contracts. The problem with their argument is that actors are a significant draw for people to watch a particular movie, they are a significant part of the marketing. You get Brad Pitt to play a part, a lot of people go see it *because* it has Brad Pitt. As a result, a movies successful relies heavily on the actors used, so they get paid based on the success of the movie. Voice actors aren't the same for games, you don't buy a game because a particular voice actor was used, indeed there are many examples where different voice actors have been used for the same character across games. They play less of a role than many of the developers when it comes to a games success.

On the one hand I feel bad for them, but on the other hand....they are easily replaced. And I don't think a strike will help, because there is no shortage of junior actors/actresses trying to get a start that would jump at a chance to do voice acting for games.

How can you feel bad for them? They do less work, less harder work and earn more than a game developer who actually made the game. Often many of them have concurrent jobs, so their income can be pretty big. A game can be made without performance actors but it cannot be made without the developers. The actors get their name all over marketing, and as you say it's not a draw, but if the game is good, it can be good recognition for their career. If a game sells bad, actors still get paid, but developers get made redundant. There's absolutely no logic in their and wil wheatons point



pbroy said:
Good, let other people have shots at doing this crap. People always acting like they are entitled. Find another job like other people who need money, if you need it. Some people work 3 jobs just to support their baby mamas and babies with other baby mamas.


Plenty of people, both professional and amateur, able and willing to do this who are as good as or better than some of the big names, and especially wil wheaton who isn't that high n mighty to begin with. You're right.



Ka-pi96 said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
Wow, absolutely no sympathy from some of you >_>

Think that's largely because people are obsessing over the royalties part and often aren't even mentioning all the other problems they currently have, so it makes them look greedy or whatever despite the fact that they do have some legitimate problems.

That's entirely the voice actors' fault for even including that demand. What did they expect to happen?



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As an aside somewhat related to my previous comment, most of the people in this thread need to either get educated or have some respect for the guild here. The large majority of comments here are spewing pure ignorance of how the industry works and/or are slamming the voice actors for reasonable demands.



You should check out my YouTube channel, The Golden Bolt!  I review all types of video games, both classic and modern, and I also give short flyover reviews of the free games each month on PlayStation Plus to tell you if they're worth downloading.  After all, the games may be free, but your time is valuable!

noname2200 said:
Ka-pi96 said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
Wow, absolutely no sympathy from some of you >_>

Think that's largely because people are obsessing over the royalties part and often aren't even mentioning all the other problems they currently have, so it makes them look greedy or whatever despite the fact that they do have some legitimate problems.

That's entirely the voice actors' fault for even including that demand. What did they expect to happen?

Why? Residuals are a legit demand as long as the conditions under which they come into effect are reasonable and tailored to the aspects of the video game indistry that make it distinct to the TV/Film industries. If you don't grant residuals to video game voice acting then basically video game voice acting is second class to other acting gigs. And in terms of demand video game voice acting is as demanding as voice acting in animated films, and of course when mo-cap is involved video game acting is more demanding than animated film voice work.

People should not be conflating the demand of voice actors with developers either. The same argument can be applied to camera crew and other technical crew on TV and movie shoots. You can't make a film without camera crew, it is a highly skilled job and not one that an average joe of the street can step into, but they get no royalties. Should camera crew (and other off-screen crew) get success bonuses for movies that make massive profits? Probably yes, if there was justice in the world. But the fact that they don't get such bonuses does not deligitimise the claim that actors should get residuals. End of the day, the actors are entitled to bargain for the best deal possible, and why should anyone begrudge them doing that. Perhaps once they get a good deal they might be open for criticism that they are not supporting other employees and contractors to get a employment / contract conditions, but for now, they are focussing on renegotiating their collective conditions, and that's fair enough.

I do wonder what the consequences for the future direction of game development will be if the actors get an agreement that includes quite liberal residuals conditions. We could see a return to more games with silent protagonists, and games with mostly or entirely text-based dialogue. What about games that use a Narrator as the only voice work? Is that an acting job covered by the SAG agreement, or is it something different?

If the publisher side of the industry feels like they've been shafted (justified or not) by whatever agreement comes out then they will be looking for ways to minimise the impact of the agreement. Which will include use of foreign voice actors in countries where residuals are not part of standard acting contracts, as well as reverting to game design that minimises or eliminates voice work. 



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Fuck em. Find new ones. There are loads that can do just as well, if not better. Plus no ego's to boot.



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

binary solo said:
noname2200 said:
Ka-pi96 said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
Wow, absolutely no sympathy from some of you >_>

Think that's largely because people are obsessing over the royalties part and often aren't even mentioning all the other problems they currently have, so it makes them look greedy or whatever despite the fact that they do have some legitimate problems.

That's entirely the voice actors' fault for even including that demand. What did they expect to happen?

Why? Residuals are a legit demand as long as the conditions under which they come into effect are reasonable and tailored to the aspects of the video game indistry that make it distinct to the TV/Film industries.

I'm cutting out the rest of your post because this is the root of where you're incorrect.

Let's set aside whether or not voice actors should be entitled to royalties for videogames (although for the record you and I are on opposite sides on that subject as well). ka-pi complained that demanding royalties makes the voice actors' guild "look greedy or whatever." The simple fact is that most of the internet, at least, appears convinced that most video game voice actors do not deserve any royalties (see, e.g. this thread), and that demanding royalties is purely greed. I believe this was a completely predictable outcome. The guild has done little, if any, attempt to convince the public to the contrary. So without doing that groundwork, the royalties demand inevitably makes them look greedy in the eyes of most. Assuming they care about the general public's opinion, adding this demand to the rest was a big miscalculation.



SubiyaCryolite said:
Wow, absolutely no sympathy from some of you >_>


Because honestly the programmers deserve royalties more than the voice actors.

If you spend 5-6 years developeing  a game, its weird that a guy can come in spend a month doing some voice acting and perphaps make more than you do, and get royalties.

 

But then again I think musicians and tv/movie stars make way to much money as well.

Compaired to the old avg joe that goes to work 9-5 rest of his life, slaveing away working just as hard, for less.

 

Time to go back to characters with text bubbles, and no voice acting needed.... if they get too demanding.