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Terrorist shooting in Australia

Forums - Politics Discussion - Terrorist shooting in Australia

Samus Aran said:

Erm, I've been studying the Middle East and Islam extensively. I've always had great admiration for what Muslims achieved during the "middle ages". Spain used to be one of the wealthiest parts of Europe during the middle ages, thanks to the Islam. The same can be said of South Eastern Europe in the late middle ages and early modern time, thanks to the Ottomans. Arabian scholars saved a lot of ancient Greek and Roman knowledge. Without them we would know so little. They also brought a lot of new technology and wisdom to our continent (compass, better ships, Indian math: we even refer to our current number system as Arabian numerals even though they're Indian in origin, better irrigation, etc.). Salah ad-Din was/is a greatly admired Islamic leader, even during the middle ages in Europe!

But then came the Great Divergence and Islam is still behind and stuck in time. During the 19th and 20th century once great powers like the Ottoman Empire and Iran/Persia were mere playballs of the Europeans. The whole world was our playball (and I'm not saying that was a good thing) and our might went uncontested until the Russians suffered a humiliating defeat against Japan in 1905.

My cousin's girlfriend is having a fantastic time working/living in Ethiopia. In a heavily fortified urban society with servants tending her every move. Does that mean everyone in Ethiopia can enjoy such great living conditions? Of course not.

Are you seriously calling the population of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Libia, Tunis, Somalia, Nigeria, Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, Yemen, etc. a minority? Have you ever taken a look at the laws in those countries? Are you denying the Islamic influence there? What about the poverty? Inequality (between rich and poor, but also gender and sexuality)?

It's not like Indonesia is such a great place to live in to begin with. It has a terrible HDI for a reason. Although as an old colony of the Netherlands there's as much Western influence as there is Islamic influence. It's not even a religious state (it's a democratic republic), so it's not the target of my criticism. I'm against Islam as a political institution. And the Islam is definitely the biggest political power in the Middle-East.

Oh and aren't the Muslims in China being treated like crap by Chinese officials?

How many Germans think Jews are inferior nowadays? I don't have the numbers, but it won't be many.

How many Muslims think females are inferior to males? Many millions...

I have the same opinion of Islam as Christianity. The difference being that the West is a lot more secular than the Islamic World and thus Christianity doesn't have as much influence on the lives of people anymore as the Islam has.

And FYI, I'm attacking Islam as a (political) institution, not individual muslims. One of my best friends has a Muslim father (Morrocan) and is a very kind man and didn't even force his son to become muslim (because he ain't).

I am not defending islam as a religion or ideology, nor do i agree with much of what it denotes, I am simply saying people trying to attribute being muslim or islamic with "being a terrorist" is wrong.

You say many millions of muslims think females are inferior to males? guess what, many men of ANY religious background believe that, it isnt unique to muslim or islamic teaching and influence.

Look at some of the rediculous comments in this thread and you will see why demonizing a religion rather than demonizing an individual is a fucking terrible approach, and that is exactly what this article does with NO evidence.

All we have is his name and age, no motives, no proof, just that a young boy shot and killed someone then was himself shot and killed.

How about we threat it as exactly that and decide his motives after we have actual evidence, believe it or not, having a muslim name and wearing muslim clothing does not instantly make your actions religious.

the Aus prime minister labelling it an act of terrorism without any fucking proof to support it is jumping the gun in the most disgusting and misleading way possible.



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It certainly wasn't glossed over in the news here. It's everywhere.

Personally I think this type of extremism simply attracts people with criminal natures. They'd join whether it was in the name of Islam or anything else. If they can justify killing another human, they will.



NightDragon83 said:
Good thing Australia has all those super tough gun laws to stop this guy from getting his hands on a gun...


As an Australian (with a gun license), yes they are great. Gun laws don't prevent all gun deaths but we have had a sharp decline since the introduction. prior to the laws we were at about 500 per year, we now run at about 200 per year. gun laws have greatly reduced accidental and intentional gun deaths.

 

Edit: personally I think it is sad these nutjobs get so much press coverage, basically it is providing them with exactly the platform they wanted. Everyone would be far better off if we just notched these whacko's down as another murder on the local news report and moved on. The PM, police and press all publically denouncing and talking about it as a terrorist attack just gives them the press exposure they so desperately desire.



Hmm, where to start (again)?

How many Germans think Jews are inferior nowadays? I don't have the numbers, but it won't be many.

Honestly, some will probably do, most Germans just don't like the way the Israelic politics went with the Palestines over the past two decades. Which is no 'Einbahnstraße' (aka one way road) though.

Now, people being radicalized. That's a problem not only within the muslim community. Not so long ago i saw an ultra orthodox younger jew in the TV. His oppinion about Arabs if not muslim people was 'Kill them all'.
Well, Israel gets all the hatred of many islamists, but then again...
Then we have our own racists. Like those assholes that put (proposed) asylum shelters on fire. Or the NSU. I'm pretty sure they killed more people in Germany than any islamist.
One thing they all have in common is far to much hatred.

That being said, Islam as a whole has it's problems. Probably lots of em. And there's still a radicalization. At the same time you can hardly say 'those muslims' because there are many diverse beleieves, points of view and ways of living, muslims aren't a homogenous mass.

That said, right now islamists are the top of the pops extremist groups worldwide. Which (not so) funnily leads to growing resentments against muslims to muslims confronted with resentments being easier radicalized.

The way politicioans react to such things are always at least delicate. You have to say something and you basically can bet on it backfiring in some way because you didn't say enough, sayd to much...



Tachikoma said:

cant we just say "extremist" rather than tacking on islamist, by tacking on islamist you are basically peddling some of the blame to islam, when the blame should lay only with the asshole that carried out the actions.

 

And frankly, i neither buy into the religious scaremongering or approve of people using the actions of the few to condemn the many.


i havent read about the shooting so i dont know. 

but if islam was an influencing factor to the shooting, then he should be labelled an Islamist, if he committed this shooting and happened to be muslim, rather than shoot because he was muslim, then his religion shouldnt be a topic.

but im assuming his ideology is what drove him to murder.



 

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dyremose said:
demonfox13 said:
Many of today's ISLAMIC (not afraid to say it how it is) is no different to the Christians during the crusades, or the tortures carried out in the name of God during the Spanish inquisition. In the end, religions of "peace" seem to spark an awful lot of conflict.
On a side note, I find it funny how women seem to be treated as inferior in Muslim cultures, yet when I read chapter Woman in the Quaran it definitely pointed to "equality" within the first 2 minutes of reading it. Talk about "Clerics" distorting teachings.
Back on topic, whether it's 1 death or 100, the loss of life is tragic REGARDLESS of religion, motivation, or mental disorder.


Good thing atheism came along in the western world to stop such terrible acts being done by the Christians.  

You mean like Stalin?

Problem with relgion isn't religion it is extremist using it as an excuse to commit crimes by brainwashing vulnerable kids. 

In an atheist world it is much harder as the only realistic thing you can use to back your extreme ways is politics. However these days people give zero fucks about politics and just live their life. so trying to convince 10000s of peopel to back you to kill in their name is much harder.

 



 

 

think-man said:
I didn't even hear about this and i live in Australia lol

A New Zealander living in Australia? :o



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I never understand why some people have this internal fear of "muslim terrorist". Statistics show you have a higher chance of being murdered by someone of your own race/religion than being murdered by a "muslim terrorist". In fact I saw this chart that showed you had a higher chance of being struck by lightning or winning the lottery than being murdered by a "muslim terrorist". lol



Ka-pi96 said:
think-man said:
I didn't even hear about this and i live in Australia lol

A New Zealander living in Australia? :o

Only been here 5 months lol already wanna go home xD



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-06/student-arrested-from-parramatta-school-attended-by-15yo-gunman/6829876