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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn are speaking at the UN about online harassment

naruball said:

That's the thing, though. Who decides who's a real feminist? or a real gamer? or a real fan? No, seriously. Who determines that? What if "real feminism" is not about equality but about women's rights and all the people claiming to be "real feminists" are equalists who see themselves as real feminists? Is there a leader and a committee that makes a decision and tells everyone what a real feminist is supposed to be, like the church tells people how to interpret the bible?

To my knowledge, there are all kinds of feminists. And if you talk to them, every single one feels like they are a real feminist. And the saddest part is, from my experience at least. they fight for women's right and not for equal treatment. They fight against rape of women, while turning a blind eye on all the cases of false accusations of men by women who simply want to hurt them. Or on women who rape men.

The reason it's called feminism is because it was started by women, not because the movement is anti-men. I can see how some people (even women) are put off by its name and try to distance themselves from it because of the negative connotation it has. It's actually quite simple, if someone believes women should have the same rights as men and want to advocate for those rights, they're feminist. On the other hand there's hateful people who actually believe that women are inherently superior and men should be punished for their evil existence, and that is certainly NOT what feminism is about.



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gatito said:
pokoko said:

Completely worthless analogy, not unless you're saying that only females face harassment online.  It's more like two groups are hungry but one group says, "only our group matters; we don't care about you but you should support us."

I wasn't talking to online harassment only, let's see the big picture. It's possible for one group to have more specific and urgent needs than the other and it doesn't mean they're more important or valid.

See my post where I talked about boys being further behind in English than girls are in science and math, despite reading and writing being the basis of education, and feminist groups not caring.  If a car has two flat tires, you don't make it work by only changing one of them.  That's not how you reach equality.  Pretending that only one side matters will get us nowhere.  It's short-sighted and ultimately results in more problems.



gatito said:
naruball said:

That's the thing, though. Who decides who's a real feminist? or a real gamer? or a real fan? No, seriously. Who determines that? What if "real feminism" is not about equality but about women's rights and all the people claiming to be "real feminists" are equalists who see themselves as real feminists? Is there a leader and a committee that makes a decision and tells everyone what a real feminist is supposed to be, like the church tells people how to interpret the bible?

To my knowledge, there are all kinds of feminists. And if you talk to them, every single one feels like they are a real feminist. And the saddest part is, from my experience at least. they fight for women's right and not for equal treatment. They fight against rape of women, while turning a blind eye on all the cases of false accusations of men by women who simply want to hurt them. Or on women who rape men.

The reason it's called feminism is because it was started by women, not because the movement is anti-men. I can see how some people (even women) are put off by its name and try to distance themselves from it because of the negative connotation it has. It's actually quite simple, if someone believes women should have the same rights as men and want to advocate for those rights, they're feminist. On the other hand there's hateful people who actually believe that women are inherently superior and men should be punished for their evil existence, and that is certainly NOT what feminism is about.

But you're arguing about something completely different than I am. I never talked about "man-hating/misandry". My point was very specific. Why fight cyeberbullying against women when it happens to men too? Such women may not be man haters, but they sure only care about their own gender. A fight should be against cyberbullying period. When you make it specifically about women, you've lost all support from me.

A fight should be about equal rights. LGBTQ people fight for marriage equality. I would never support a gay movement that wanted to change the law to punish companies harder if the boss calls one a gay slur. It should be a fight against verbal abuse in general.



ClassicGamingWizzz said:
bouzane said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:
foodfather said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:

Show me their threats then to the people that question their narrative.

She made the threats herself. 

She made threat bombs to the  places she goes talk herself? Riiiiight ... I don´t even ... just wow.

I am sure you have the proof ?


If somebody claims that they were threatened they have to prove the allegations. Otherwise they have made unverifiable statements without any evidence and that means they probably aren't true. How can you be so gullible?

The messages and phones calls to the places she go talk with threats are made by her too, she invents those twitter accounts too that go insult and say they would rape her. That is no evidence.

You don't think it's possible there are some idiots who have sent her death threats?

I like gaming, I've been gaming since 1989 for crying out loud, but I don't feel I need to "defend" all gamers. Some gamers are idiots. Some are dorks. It can be a bad combination sometimes. That's just how it goes. I personally never do voice chat in games for example anymore unless it's with friends. Too many freaking morons. 



ClassicGamingWizzz said:
mornelithe said:

Read the article, SHE canceled the appearance, the Cops did not.  Nice try though :)

The SPJ Airplay event, had GG Panelists, Derek Smart, Lynn Walsh, Michael Koretzky and Ren Laforme.  Zero individuals from the other side showed up, or would even agree to discuss it.  So you're telling me that Bomb threats against GG events, are made by GG.  And bomb threats against Anita, Wu and Quinn, are also by GG.  

The problem with that, is A) You can't prove it (Keep in mind, nobody can prove where the threats came from for anyone).  And B)  the SPJ Airplay event was the first time the GG side of the discussion had actually been allowed to speak publicly, so you're telling me they false flagged their only public platform?  Really?  Which was why SPJ/Koretzky got involved in the first place.  When someone claims an entire group is evil, hateful etc, without ever even looking into that group and seeing what they stand for, clearly there's an agenda being pushed.

You've still not provided any evidence to suggest anyone in GG was involved.  Conversely, there's no evidence to suggest anyone from the other side was involved in the bomb threats against GGinDC and SPJ Airplay event.  However, you're more than happy to condemn them all, as violent acts of misogyny from GG.  Clearly, someone has some biases going on.


Gamergate or not gamergate, the people who made them are the same people that go hate on her and go to twitter saying they would rape, murder etc, that they go after their families etc, if their are from gamergate or other stupid movement i dont know or care.  And yes, CLEARLY someone has some bias going on. That is obvious.

Prove it.  That's the problem, you accept her account without question, then you go on to accuse Gamergate of false flagging a gathering of individuals just socializing, or a place where they're actually discussing the issues like adults, without evidence.  The only difference is, both Koretzky and GG begged, literally begged these people to attend (some offered to pay their way, and/or donate 10K to a charity of their choosing), so it could be discussed, but they refused.  That's not GG's fault, nor GG's problem.  That's their problem.

As I said, you're allowing your own pre-conceived biases to infect this.  Clearly, you're incapable of discussing this, though I'm surprised you took it this far.  That's further than Anita, Wu or Quinn will.  Even the slightest hint of questioning the 'Listen and Believe' mantra, and they block any further attempts at discussion.



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Here we go again >.



I don't get it. Some of these people are among the worst hatemongers in the industry. Yet they're fighting harassment?



I'm convinced some of the things Anita does are just to get attention from people who don't know any better.



naruball said:

But you're arguing about something completely different than I am. I never talked about "man-hating/misandry". My point was very specific. Why fight cyeberbullying against women when it happens to men too? Such women may not be man haters, but they sure only care about their own gender. A fight should be against cyberbullying period. When you make it specifically about women, you've lost all support from me.

A fight should be about equal rights. LGBTQ people fight for marriage equality. I would never support a gay movement that wanted to change the law to punish companies harder if the boss calls one a gay slur. It should be a fight against verbal abuse in general.


Well it might seem like it's selfish but then again, where's the men raising concern and taking action against such issue. I'm sure there's plenty of men being harassed online, why don't we all join and do something about it? Maybe we don't care or we don't think it's such a big deal, there must be a reason for it. And that's probably why these women aren't mentioning men in their online harassment speech.

Just because it's not affecting you it doesn't mean it's not real.



And her saying 'gun shootings' is due to 'toxic masculinity' isn't harassment of men? Being disagreed with on the internet isn't harassment, you can suck mah dick google