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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What If The NX Console Is Portable Too?

Soundwave said:
JustBeingReal said: Snip


I was assuming at 14nm, so 2x the GFLOPS per watt. 

I agree they should just make a bunch of different hardware variants. 

Though seeing what's happening to the Western handheld market is alarming. I can't help but wonder if they need to be more radical in their hardware approach. 

I think it's going to be very hard to compete with the PS4, they will be 20-25 million units behind even the XBox One. I'd be happy with the console you're describing, don't get me wrong I'd be first in line to buy it. 

Logically I just don't know how many people would be in line behind me. It would probably be selling to the same 10 million Nintendo fans that buy every Nintendo console, I think PS4 will domiante through 2019, a "me too" console that's 3 years late starting from 0 games whereas the PS4 has hundreds by then is likely not going to be that well accepted by non-Nintendo fans. 

Unlike a lot of Nintendo fans who have selective amnesia about things, I remember how badly Sony beat up on Nintendo with just a 1 year headstart with the PS2 over GameCube ... this would be far, far worse, even MS would be at least past 20 million install base by then, meaning the NX would be gaurunteed to be the distant no.3 console for a couple of years in the best case scenario.  

But I guess Nintendo has to try and see how it goes. Nothing else they can do at this point but to let it ride I guess. I think we just have to hope that they can stop the bleeding in the portable market, because if they can't then, they probably are going to have to embrace the idea of going third party. 


You need to say what you mean, I get you meant 14nm now, though performance would probably be different as at 14nm it would probably use newer architecture.

The western handheld market is probably bigger than the east, the only issue is that it doesn't have the big 3rd party games, from a software perspective Nintendo just needs to release a decent stream of games targeted at that market, Project Steam, Splatoon and the like are a good step forward, if you can play both on either the new handheld or home console then Nintendo have basically opened up their prospective sales audience, getting big 3rd party games on top of that, which will run on all of their new systems would definitely help to boost the market for handhelds.

I'm not saying Nintendo should just make a bunch of different variations on hardware for the sake doing that, they should keep it simple in the beginning, like just have the handheld and the home console, then release a new piece of hardware as they need to for a new area of the market.

What I think NX is going to be is quite literally a new family of systems, Nintendo may as well just call it Nintendo Crossplay, you have the Crossplay Handheld and the Crossplay Home Console, neither is distinct from the other, it's that whole unified platform that is in competition with PS4 and XB1, because it's really one games platform for Nintendo to deliver their software to the market.

 

Crossplay wouldn't just be a "me too" platform, it has the potential to tap into an area of the market that is currently lacking, western focused games on a handheld platform. Having game development being unified Nintendo can definitely move more hardware and software in both areas that they target, if they can also gain the 3rd party games back, by dangling the handheld sales in the faces of 3rd party publishers they can potentially get themselves back in the game. Just because NX would be launching later that doesn't mean it will stay a distant 3rd, as a complete platform it has the potential to sell very fast and move a lot of software for Nintendo and even 3rd party publishers can boost things, while also gaining a big bit of the pie.

This all assumes that NX is the crossplay system that's being rumored, IMO it needs to provide options and not force one thing in gamer's faces, but be a logical option for people to take up as their platform of choice.

 

I hope this is what NX is, I think it can do really well, but it's got to be handled in the right way, if Nintendo just releases another system, that only has the same old Nintendo games, with very few new IPs that appeal to the west then it's not going to help grow Nintendo's user base for the future.



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zorg1000 said:

Well they did just release patents for an all digital console so we can't rule that out.

I honestly believe we will not see a huge gap between the console and handheld in terms of specs, I'm expecting the NX console to essentially be a Wii U 1.5 much like Wii was basically a Gamecube 1.5 while I expect the handheld to have a full generational leap over 3DS so something like this NX Handheld=3DS, Wii U/NX Console=Gamecube/Wii. Yes it will be weaker than the console variant but not 50x weaker like 3DS is compared to Wii U, maybe something like 1/2-1/3  as powerful as the console variant.

Sony/Microsoft spend 7-8 years on their first HD console before moving on to much more powerful hardware, I think it's naive to believe Nintendo wants to make a big jump after 4 years.

Yes they did; however I will like to see more information regarding what that patent refers to though, the entire thing is too vague. I wouldn't be surprised if they did have an SKU of NX that was only digital. 

That would be disappointing though, I extremely doubt they'll go the route of only Wii U x 1.5 in power for the console. I don't expect a console to be as powerful as PS4, however a 640 shader GPU for example I think would be a good fit. It would be a quite a bit more powerful than Wii U, but it won't be as powerful as XB1. Besides, I don't expect Nintendo to fully take advantage of that power at that time. Also recall that even Miyamoto has showed somewhat of a complaint over Wii U's CPU. Although it wasn't said directly, there was some sort of implication that the CPU was limiting them in games like Star Fox. There are plenty of cheap CPU options that will blow away the Wii U Espresso CPU in terms of performance, so they shouldn't cheapen out on that for the console. The NX console GPU may not be up to PS4/XB1 level, but it's entirely possible that the CPU can easily over-power them on the console side. 

Sony/Microsoft did that as an attempt to gain as much profit out of the generation as they could. Sony was in the red for a long period of time, Microsoft was as well. Nintendo although not selling Wii U at a massive rate, has been able to turn to profit now. Again, I don't expect a full generational leap, but there needs to be a difference enough to warrent the purchase of both systems. They make more money off hardware and software, if they hinder their console sales by only playing the same games as the handheld in 1080p, they will be at a compromising position. The "extra" software they will sell won't make up for that lost revenue. 

JustBeingReal said:

This all assumes that NX is the crossplay system that's being rumored, IMO it needs to provide options and not force one thing in gamer's faces, but be a logical option for people to take up as their platform of choice.

NX may not even be what we think it is. I think we should just hold off a bit until they disclose more new information. And the bolded is important. I'm all for some cross-play games, but they need to also have exclusive titles that are only playable on a specific device. IF people already have the handheld and all the console does is play the same games in higher resolution, that's not gonna sell very well. They need differentiation. Major Nintendo fans will buy it, but I'm not sure about the rest of the public, which is where most of the sales of a console come from. What Nintendo needs to do, is show that certain games can be playable on both (or more) systems, but also show off something to attract people into buying the system they don't own. An open game like Zelda, or Xenoblade NX may have issues running on weaker hardware, so maybe try making games like those only on their console. They make more money off their hardware than software, so they need to maximize their sales potential, and without exclusives, it'll be difficult. 



forethought14 said:

NX may not even be what we think it is. I think we should just hold off a bit until they disclose more new information. And the bolded is important. I'm all for some cross-play games, but they need to also have exclusive titles that are only playable on a specific device. IF people already have the handheld and all the console does is play the same games in higher resolution, that's not gonna sell very well. They need differentiation. Major Nintendo fans will buy it, but I'm not sure about the rest of the public, which is where most of the sales of a console come from. What Nintendo needs to do, is show that certain games can be playable on both (or more) systems, but also show off something to attract people into buying the system they don't own. An open game like Zelda, or Xenoblade NX may have issues running on weaker hardware, so maybe try making games like those only on their console. They make more money off their hardware than software, so they need to maximize their sales potential, and without exclusives, it'll be difficult. 


Most Nintendo fans don't even buy Nintendo consoles as is. Both the GameCube and Wii U have like an 80% rate of Nintendo handheld buyer not bothering to touch the console. So really all you're doing is keep 80% of your audience locked out of games like Splatoon, Mario Maker, Legend of Zelda, Xenoblade X, etc. if you keep the libraries seperate. 

I think this problem will get worse too as the Nintendo handheld becomes more and more powerful each gen because it can do a decent job of running pretty much most/any Nintendo franchise now so it becomes the issue for the consumer of "well I can already get Mario and Pokemon and Link and etc. on my DS/3DS, I'm not buying another $250-$300 console to play the same franchises plus a few extra ones". 

Wii was able to break that trend only because it was able to corral tons of casuals through low-budget motion games, but this audience has been completely taken by free smartphone games. 

It's just too bad Microsoft is in this industry to be honest. They don't need to be, they don't need the money, nor is Sony or Nintendo any threat to their Windows business (like they thought in 2000). It's not even like after 15 years they've really gained any ground on Sony either. But having to compete with both of them basically just shuts Nintendo entirely out of the traditional console market and makes them look like the "kids console" because of all their mascot IPs. 

Without MS in the business, Nintendo could carve out a very comfortable no.2 spot at least, unfortunately it looks like they are sticking around (no offence to those that enjoy their consoles/games). 



forethought14 said:
JustBeingReal said:

This all assumes that NX is the crossplay system that's being rumored, IMO it needs to provide options and not force one thing in gamer's faces, but be a logical option for people to take up as their platform of choice.

NX may not even be what we think it is. I think we should just hold off a bit until they disclose more new information. And the bolded is important. I'm all for some cross-play games, but they need to also have exclusive titles that are only playable on a specific device. IF people already have the handheld and all the console does is play the same games in higher resolution, that's not gonna sell very well. They need differentiation. Major Nintendo fans will buy it, but I'm not sure about the rest of the public, which is where most of the sales of a console come from. What Nintendo needs to do, is show that certain games can be playable on both (or more) systems, but also show off something to attract people into buying the system they don't own. An open game like Zelda, or Xenoblade NX may have issues running on weaker hardware, so maybe try making games like those only on their console. They make more money off their hardware than software, so they need to maximize their sales potential, and without exclusives, it'll be difficult. 


I can't agree with this, the whole point of opening up the platform to allow for users to play their games on either platform is to make the system more appealing. Whether it's console or handheld it's still exclusive to Nintendo and is a reason for gamers to buy Nintendo again.

Basically Nintendo should be seen as the Platform, not the hardware, they don't need specific exclusives on handheld or consoles to sell platforms, they just need quality games, solid hardware and they need their platform to be the only place you can buy and play their games on.

Some people buy an iPad over a iPod Touch because it offers the bigger screen experience, the same can happen for Nintendo. If the NX console provides a different kind of experience, namely big screen, with greater details, with better graphics, then it's no different than it being more appealing to watch Netflix on your big TV at home. NX Handheld (theorized by us not in the know) would allow you to take those games on the move.

Both platforms wouldn't have to be prohibitively expensive to even own both and the allows you the freedom to play your Nintendo games on the go and when at home on a huge screen or even at a friends if you have your handheld with you and they own the NX console.

 

The whole thing I mentioned before about Nintendo developing more Western focused games is to gain a new audience of customers for Nintendo. If Nintendo made games like Uncharted, Gears, Gran Turismo, Halo, along with The Witcher, Fallout or the like then that would scratch the itch people have for those games on a Nintendo platform and they would also start to decide to use a NIntendo platform to buy their 3rd party multiplats on.

 

As for your last points a handheld can actually run basically anything a console can, just at a lower resolution with some graphical details cut out,  but you wouldn't even notice them on a smaller screen, which is what I've been saying to Soundwave. Also no Nntendo doesn't make more money on hardware than Software, they've always made their money on the games, they sell multiple games per console and that's where the profit comes from.

If Nintendo destroys the barriers between the handheld and console market they have everything to gain. In this hypothetical NX world every console owner can buy and play every NX handheld game (running better on that platform because of the extra hardware grunt) and every NX handheld owner can buy every home console game (with the benefit of people able to play them anywhere they like), it actually means more software sales for Nintendo and there's also the possibility that Nintendo will move more hardware because each gamer now has an even greater amount of freedom on where they play their Nintendo games.

There is quite literally no negative in this, the potential for sales in all avenues goes up, not down.



JustBeingReal said:
forethought14 said:
JustBeingReal said:

This all assumes that NX is the crossplay system that's being rumored, IMO it needs to provide options and not force one thing in gamer's faces, but be a logical option for people to take up as their platform of choice.

NX may not even be what we think it is. I think we should just hold off a bit until they disclose more new information. And the bolded is important. I'm all for some cross-play games, but they need to also have exclusive titles that are only playable on a specific device. IF people already have the handheld and all the console does is play the same games in higher resolution, that's not gonna sell very well. They need differentiation. Major Nintendo fans will buy it, but I'm not sure about the rest of the public, which is where most of the sales of a console come from. What Nintendo needs to do, is show that certain games can be playable on both (or more) systems, but also show off something to attract people into buying the system they don't own. An open game like Zelda, or Xenoblade NX may have issues running on weaker hardware, so maybe try making games like those only on their console. They make more money off their hardware than software, so they need to maximize their sales potential, and without exclusives, it'll be difficult. 

 

Basically Nintendo should be seen as the Platform, not the hardware, they don't need specific exclusives on handheld or consoles to sell platforms, they just need quality games, solid hardware and they need their platform to be the only place you can buy and play their games on.

Some people buy an iPad over a iPod Touch because it offers the bigger screen experience, the same can happen for Nintendo. If the NX console provides a different kind of experience, namely big screen, with greater details, with better graphics, then it's no different than it being more appealing to watch Netflix on your big TV at home. NX Handheld (theorized by us not in the know) would allow you to take those games on the move.

Both platforms wouldn't have to be prohibitively expensive to even own both and the allows you the freedom to play your Nintendo games on the go and when at home on a huge screen or even at a friends if you have your handheld with you and they own the NX console.

The whole thing I mentioned before about Nintendo developing more Western focused games is to gain a new audience of customers for Nintendo. If Nintendo made games like Uncharted, Gears, Gran Turismo, Halo, along with The Witcher, Fallout or the like then that would scratch the itch people have for those games on a Nintendo platform and they would also start to decide to use a NIntendo platform to buy their 3rd party multiplats on.

 


I agree I'd like to see NX be a broader platform that does away with a lot of the basic restrictions of the old hardware model. To be honest I'd like to see the whole "you're stuck with this hardware for the next 5-6 years" thing go away too and become more PC like where you can refresh/upgrade your hardware over time and do away with the entire concept of "generation leaps". 

PC gaming thanks to STEAM is growing whereas consoles are slowing down. They're already kinda dabbling in this by having quasi-upgrades to both the DS and 3DS (DSi and New 3DS), but I think they should just go further with it. NX is the platform and from NX onwards that's it. New hardware models are introduced every 2-3 years, library gets pushed forward. 

Agreed that Nintendo made a mistake in disengaging from Western development in the early 2000s. They lost the Star Wars licensing deal, they lost Rare, they cut ties to Factor 5, Silicon Knights, Left Field, etc. and did not replace them with other Western studios, they lets thing like the Kobe Bryant NBA Courtside and Ken Griffy MLB games fizzle out. Just wasn't a good thing. If 90% of the console audience is in the West, how can you really expect to have success in the West when 98% of your games are made in Japan only?



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Soundwave said:
JustBeingReal said:

 

Basically Nintendo should be seen as the Platform, not the hardware, they don't need specific exclusives on handheld or consoles to sell platforms, they just need quality games, solid hardware and they need their platform to be the only place you can buy and play their games on.

Some people buy an iPad over a iPod Touch because it offers the bigger screen experience, the same can happen for Nintendo. If the NX console provides a different kind of experience, namely big screen, with greater details, with better graphics, then it's no different than it being more appealing to watch Netflix on your big TV at home. NX Handheld (theorized by us not in the know) would allow you to take those games on the move.

Both platforms wouldn't have to be prohibitively expensive to even own both and the allows you the freedom to play your Nintendo games on the go and when at home on a huge screen or even at a friends if you have your handheld with you and they own the NX console.

The whole thing I mentioned before about Nintendo developing more Western focused games is to gain a new audience of customers for Nintendo. If Nintendo made games like Uncharted, Gears, Gran Turismo, Halo, along with The Witcher, Fallout or the like then that would scratch the itch people have for those games on a Nintendo platform and they would also start to decide to use a NIntendo platform to buy their 3rd party multiplats on.

 


I agree I'd like to see NX be a broader platform that does away with a lot of the basic restrictions of the old hardware model. To be honest I'd like to see the whole "you're stuck with this hardware for the next 5-6 years" thing go away too and become more PC like where you can refresh/upgrade your hardware over time and do away with the entire concept of "generation leaps". 

PC gaming thanks to STEAM is growing whereas consoles are slowing down. They're already kinda dabbling in this by having quasi-upgrades to both the DS and 3DS (DSi and New 3DS), but I think they should just go further with it. NX is the platform and from NX onwards that's it. New hardware models are introduced every 2-3 years, library gets pushed forward. 

Agreed that Nintendo made a mistake in disengaging from Western development in the early 2000s. They lost the Star Wars licensing deal, they lost Rare, they cut ties to Factor 5, Silicon Knights, Left Field, etc. and did not replace them with other Western studios, they lets thing like the Kobe Bryant NBA Courtside and Ken Griffy MLB games fizzle out. Just wasn't a good thing. If 90% of the console audience is in the West, how can you really expect to have success in the West when 98% of your games are made in Japan only?


If consoles become upgradable, and you have multiple specs that developers cannot optimize for you literally lose every major benefit of a console. Your hardware becomes outdated quicker, game compatibility becomes questionable, consoles literally become PCs, just running Sony or MS's version of an OS or steam. Literally what would be the point of a console? To buy a PC that runs games literally just as well as any other PC with the same specs, but doesn't have any of the benefits of running an operating system like Windows, except you might still have to pay to play online, and you might not be able to use a keyboard or mouse to play games?

Seriously, if you want a console that does that - it's called a Steam Machine. You and thee 5 other people who actually think that's a good idea can go buy one. Have you really thought this through? Are you oblvious to the benefits of owning a console over a PC?



potato_hamster said:
Soundwave said:


I agree I'd like to see NX be a broader platform that does away with a lot of the basic restrictions of the old hardware model. To be honest I'd like to see the whole "you're stuck with this hardware for the next 5-6 years" thing go away too and become more PC like where you can refresh/upgrade your hardware over time and do away with the entire concept of "generation leaps". 

PC gaming thanks to STEAM is growing whereas consoles are slowing down. They're already kinda dabbling in this by having quasi-upgrades to both the DS and 3DS (DSi and New 3DS), but I think they should just go further with it. NX is the platform and from NX onwards that's it. New hardware models are introduced every 2-3 years, library gets pushed forward. 

Agreed that Nintendo made a mistake in disengaging from Western development in the early 2000s. They lost the Star Wars licensing deal, they lost Rare, they cut ties to Factor 5, Silicon Knights, Left Field, etc. and did not replace them with other Western studios, they lets thing like the Kobe Bryant NBA Courtside and Ken Griffy MLB games fizzle out. Just wasn't a good thing. If 90% of the console audience is in the West, how can you really expect to have success in the West when 98% of your games are made in Japan only?


If consoles become upgradable, and you have multiple specs that developers cannot optimize for you literally lose every major benefit of a console. Your hardware becomes outdated quicker, game compatibility becomes questionable, consoles literally become PCs, just running Sony or MS's version of an OS or steam. Literally what would be the point of a console? To buy a PC that runs games literally just as well as any other PC with the same specs, but doesn't have any of the benefits of running an operating system like Windows, except you might still have to pay to play online, and you might not be able to use a keyboard or mouse to play games?

Seriously, if you want a console that does that - it's called a Steam Machine. You and thee 5 other people who actually think that's a good idea can go buy one. Have you really thought this through? Are you oblvious to the benefits of owning a console over a PC?

I'm looking at things from outside the box, I don't see the point of rabid insistence on doing things the same way they've been done in the past when clearly it's not a formula that works against Nintendo than working for them. 

It's not like the traditional adherence to "console rules" has helped Nintendo any, and the Wii U is not really just a one off problem either, the GameCube had very similar struggles and the Wii succeeded largely on the back of casuals. 

I think probably though they'll just go with something like a 300 GFLOP portable, and using the same chipset family, they'll just scale that up 2-3x for a cheap micro-console (sub-$250).

I think the report of Android apps from Nikkei is largely true too (they have been correct more or less several times in the past with regards to Nintendo). It'll be a Nintendo OS, but it'll be able to run Android apps, sorta like what Blackberry is doing, and Nintendo will collect a small royalty fee if developers want to sell their Android apps through the Nintendo eShop. 



Soundwave said:
potato_hamster said:


If consoles become upgradable, and you have multiple specs that developers cannot optimize for you literally lose every major benefit of a console. Your hardware becomes outdated quicker, game compatibility becomes questionable, consoles literally become PCs, just running Sony or MS's version of an OS or steam. Literally what would be the point of a console? To buy a PC that runs games literally just as well as any other PC with the same specs, but doesn't have any of the benefits of running an operating system like Windows, except you might still have to pay to play online, and you might not be able to use a keyboard or mouse to play games?

Seriously, if you want a console that does that - it's called a Steam Machine. You and thee 5 other people who actually think that's a good idea can go buy one. Have you really thought this through? Are you oblvious to the benefits of owning a console over a PC?

I'm looking at things from outside the box, I don't see the point of rabid insistence on doing things the same way they've been done in the past when clearly it's not a formula that works against Nintendo than working for them. 

It's not like the traditional adherence to "console rules" has helped Nintendo any, and the Wii U is not really just a one off problem either, the GameCube had very similar struggles and the Wii succeeded largely on the back of casuals. 

I think probably though they'll just go with something like a 300 GFLOP portable, and using the same chipset family, they'll just scale that up 2-3x for a cheap micro-console (sub-$250).

I think the report of Android apps from Nikkei is largely true too (they have been correct more or less several times in the past with regards to Nintendo). It'll be a Nintendo OS, but it'll be able to run Android apps, sorta like what Blackberry is doing, and Nintendo will collect a small royalty fee if developers want to sell their Android apps through the Nintendo eShop. 

Ohh yes. Nintendo OS for a glorified upgradable PC. Makes sense. Why don't Nintendo just abandon making hardware all together and just make games for PC and iOS/Android? Equally "outside the box".  Better yet, let's have Nintendo make their own version of the OUYA! Plays Nintendo-specific games, as well as Android. Equally dumb. Seriously, why are all of your ideas obvious commerical failures for anyone with any bit of common sense?

Here you are all concerned about handheld/console performance and scaling when both of those don't matter one iota if you don't make hardware that people want to buy, and guess what people don't want to buy? A console just to play Nintendo's games! That's the main reason why Nintendo has failed with the Wii U, and Gamecube, because they have the same bull-headed approach that Nintendo games, and Nintendo games alone will move so much hardware that third parties will flock to it just to have their piece of the pie. You have no idea how hard Nintendo is to deal with when it comes to making games on their platforms. Their developer tools are a joke, their developer kits are lacking, and their support and certification transparency are severely lacking when compared to both Sony and Microsoft. Developers are willing to tolerate this if it means high potential sales, but when Nintendo is fighting for market share it's a death wish. Nintendo needs to clean up their act, mend bridges, invest in making their platforms easier to develop on, and show third parties they're willing to work with them to bring good games to Nintendo's consoles, and maybe, just maybe Nintendo will be successful again.

Honestly if Nintendo doesn't think they can beat them, they need to join them. If they want to be successful competing against mobile, why on earth doesn't Nintendo make their own phone? That will sell like gang-busters amongst kids. Parents won't have to buy their kids a phone and a Nintendo handheld, they could kill two birds with one stone. Nintendo could make their own variation of Android, have the benefits of the entire Android infrastructure, and have their Nintendo store which offers Nintendo games and apps that are compatible with the phone. Throw in a cartridge port if you still want to go that route and the sky is the limit. What? Parents don't want their kids to have a phone,? Make an iPod touch style version. That's still lets kids connect to the Android infrastructure via wi-fi.

See, something like that is actually thinking outside of the box, practical and could be successful for Nintendo. Will they do that? Probably not.



potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:
JustBeingReal said:
potato_hamster said:


80% in common would be less in common than a PS4 game has with its X1 counterpart. And again, when developing for those platforms they are treated as two separarate entities, because they are. You know not of what you speak. There is no reason to expect it will be easier to develop a game for both NX home and NX handheld than it will be to develop a game for PS4 and X1.

For example do you know much extra work it takes to turn an iPhone game into an iPad game? Do you think that's trivial or complex?

The NX being invisioned by most people basically has the same API running on handheld and console, also the architecture would be identical, with the handheld only packing a smaller amount of tech or different clock speeds for parts to allow it to run on less energy. Developers could build the console version of a game, made to run at 1080p 30FPS, but the rendering pipeline could have options built in it to simply turn off that 1080p option and run the game at 480p, same goes for disabling AA, AF or any major performance hog.

Platform specific optimizations would stretch to reducing settings, in much the same way you'd turn off settings on a PC game because you're rig can't handle the higher resolution or GFX version of a game.

The difference between NX console and handheld is power, not architecture or API based.

Completely agree, not to mention that developer kits would be identical or similar and tha NX will have same OS.

This is literally what iOS does, the API being the same, arcitecture being identical, but running at different speeds and have different resolutions. However, I still find it laughable that you just trvialize these optimizations as "the way you turn of settings on a PC game". It isn't that simple. You still have to handle the different control schemes. You still have to handle the different outputs. You still have to redo textures and simplify animations, AI, etc to run just as well off of more limited resources. These are things you need to do going from an iPad game to an iPhone game, or going from a game optimized for iPhone 5 to one that can run off of iPhone 4. These aren't trivial things to do. Again, it is not that simple.

Game engines we see developers use nowadays do the vast majority of the work when porting a title to each platform.

Artists make one set of high end assets, with high res textures, complex geometry, then the engine has a set of sliders to reduce the complexity of those options. Shading options would be another part of the package (any graphical features or even AI and Physics), sure you have a team of people that go in and alter those settings to make the whole game fit within each platform's hardware limits, but you definitely don't have to rebuild each model or draw new textures for another platform, that's just not how game development works nowadays, even when portion a title from PC to PS4 or XB1.

The alterations are absolutely just options within the game engine.

The code side of things is a lot more complex, but once the coding team have written XB1's version of DX11/12 or PS4's GNM/X into the engine it's just a matter of gradual iteration on past code to make better use of each platform and provide more capabilities for that platform.

Even separate Architectures of X86 tech aren't that much extra work once you've incorporated a new platform into your engine. So long as Nintendo writes a solid and straightforward API, that accounts for all of the platforms that could make up each system within the NX family (assuming NX is this), makes resource management easy, overall development would be pretty easy for developers.

 

This stuff is actually way more trivial than you're making it seem.



potato_hamster said:
Soundwave said:
potato_hamster said:


If consoles become upgradable, and you have multiple specs that developers cannot optimize for you literally lose every major benefit of a console. Your hardware becomes outdated quicker, game compatibility becomes questionable, consoles literally become PCs, just running Sony or MS's version of an OS or steam. Literally what would be the point of a console? To buy a PC that runs games literally just as well as any other PC with the same specs, but doesn't have any of the benefits of running an operating system like Windows, except you might still have to pay to play online, and you might not be able to use a keyboard or mouse to play games?

Seriously, if you want a console that does that - it's called a Steam Machine. You and thee 5 other people who actually think that's a good idea can go buy one. Have you really thought this through? Are you oblvious to the benefits of owning a console over a PC?

I'm looking at things from outside the box, I don't see the point of rabid insistence on doing things the same way they've been done in the past when clearly it's not a formula that works against Nintendo than working for them. 

It's not like the traditional adherence to "console rules" has helped Nintendo any, and the Wii U is not really just a one off problem either, the GameCube had very similar struggles and the Wii succeeded largely on the back of casuals. 

I think probably though they'll just go with something like a 300 GFLOP portable, and using the same chipset family, they'll just scale that up 2-3x for a cheap micro-console (sub-$250).

I think the report of Android apps from Nikkei is largely true too (they have been correct more or less several times in the past with regards to Nintendo). It'll be a Nintendo OS, but it'll be able to run Android apps, sorta like what Blackberry is doing, and Nintendo will collect a small royalty fee if developers want to sell their Android apps through the Nintendo eShop. 

Ohh yes. Nintendo OS for a glorified upgradable PC. Makes sense. Why don't Nintendo just abandon making hardware all together and just make games for PC and iOS/Android? Equally "outside the box".  Better yet, let's have Nintendo make their own version of the OUYA! Plays Nintendo-specific games, as well as Android. Equally dumb. Seriously, why are all of your ideas obvious commerical failures for anyone with any bit of common sense?

Here you are all concerned about handheld/console performance and scaling when both of those don't matter one iota if you don't make hardware that people want to buy, and guess what people don't want to buy? A console just to play Nintendo's games! That's the main reason why Nintendo has failed with the Wii U, and Gamecube, because they have the same bull-headed approach that Nintendo games, and Nintendo games alone will move so much hardware that third parties will flock to it just to have their piece of the pie. You have no idea how hard Nintendo is to deal with when it comes to making games on their platforms. Their developer tools are a joke, their developer kits are lacking, and their support and certification transparency are severely lacking when compared to both Sony and Microsoft. Developers are willing to tolerate this if it means high potential sales, but when Nintendo is fighting for market share it's a death wish. Nintendo needs to clean up their act, mend bridges, invest in making their platforms easier to develop on, and show third parties they're willing to work with them to bring good games to Nintendo's consoles, and maybe, just maybe Nintendo will be successful again.

Honestly if Nintendo doesn't think they can beat them, they need to join them. If they want to be successful competing against mobile, why on earth doesn't Nintendo make their own phone? That will sell like gang-busters amongst kids. Parents won't have to buy their kids a phone and a Nintendo handheld, they could kill two birds with one stone. Nintendo could make their own variation of Android, have the benefits of the entire Android infrastructure, and have their Nintendo store which offers Nintendo games and apps that are compatible with the phone. Throw in a cartridge port if you still want to go that route and the sky is the limit. What? Parents don't want their kids to have a phone,? Make an iPod touch style version. That's still lets kids connect to the Android infrastructure via wi-fi.

See, something like that is actually thinking outside of the box, practical and could be successful for Nintendo. Will they do that? Probably not.


Well firstly they are making iOS/Android games. And personally I don't think there would be anything wrong if they did make PC games. 

I guess the other question to ask is does the industry even need 3 consoles doing more or less the exact same thing? Unfortunately with Microsoft already occupying the role of shadow to Sony, there isn't really a lot of room for yet another console maker that's aiming to do the same thing (ie: platform driven by violent third party action games for adolsencent/teenage males as the primary market). 

As for a Nintendo phone ... I don't see Nintendo going there. The competetition there is 100x fiercer than the little ol' video game market. A company like Sony is basically a joke in the cell phone market, yet they can be the market leader in the game business, they are in effect a big fish in a small pond in the game business, but the phone business is far more cutthroat. 

Also I don't know if even kids want a "Nintendo phone". People don't want "toy phones", phones are not just tech devices for tech nerds either, they are fashion statements. Nintendo woudn't have the first idea of how to brand market directly against the likes of Apple and Samsung. Even Microsoft is having no luck and they've poured billions of dollars into Windows Phone. 

As far as incorpating Android apps ... sure, why not. Nikkei is generally one of the best (and only) sources for Nintendo leaks, so I would not be surprised if their report had some truth to it.