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Saying that one woman with a long political career became senator, and secretary of state of USA, only because her husband, with giving no arguments for that affirmation, is not incredibly sexist?

Well, then I will say Sarah Palin became governor of Alaska because her fabulous hairstyle.



Tim and The Princes...

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Naufraguito said:
Saying that one woman with a long political career became senator, and secretary of state of USA, only because her husband, with giving no arguments for that affirmation, is not incredibly sexist?

Well, then I will say Sarah Palin became governor of Alaska because her fabulous hairstyle.

There's nothing sexist about it.   (Although, in a typical Liberal-ish retort the classic fallback for someone who disagrees with them must be (Sexist, Racist, Fox News, Reagan, Palin)

She became Senator because of her husband, end of discussion.  Her career prior to that point was very mediocre and truly is not the type of career you become a senator behind.  You know it and I know it.   Sarah Palin is pretty brain dead, but even she had a far more linear path to her role as Governor.  However, I agree Palin was a probably a fresh face on stale politics -- to deny that physical appearance can help or influence helps is to deny reality.  



Rpruett said:
PDF said:

Why vote for Hillary? 

1. She shares the same ideals as me.

2. She has arguable the strongest resume out of any cadidates

3. Honestly you kind of do get two for the price of one with Bill Clinton.

The FBI issue to you keep pointing to is really not that big of a deal to me.  The disagreement on what is or isnt classified seems to come down to disagreement among government agencies.  Everything found so far to be "classified" was not clearly marked classified when she had in on her private server.  As far as this trust issue she has.  Its a real one but for me particularly I don't trust most politicians.  Reagan flat lied to the American people about Iran-Contra before coming clean.  Most republicans would say he was a great president.

What ideals are those exactly, changing her mind and lying to say whatever is applicable and works at the time?  If her last name were Jones instead of Clinton,  her resume would be vapor.  Two for the price of one, are we electing Hilary or are we re-electing Bill Clinton?  Why not elect a Bush then hell, that's like three for the price of one.

A presidential candidate being investigated by the FBI for distinctly breaking the law (a crime we've watched several others get crucified and lose their career over) and having a completely isolated server outside of anybodies jurisdiction?  That doesn't concern you, that your selection for President has no regard for the laws that she would gladly lock you away with for life for breaking?    Sorry but that's a stupid way to look at things.

As for Reagan -- I wasn't aware he was running.  He is in no way relevant to this discussion, but a classic strawman argument never hurt anybody.  By the time Contra happened it was already well into a successful presidency and the ultimate intentions of Contra were relatively pure.


I just have to ask, in what way was Reagan's presidency successful? Also, how in the hell were his intentions in the Iran Contra scandal pure? Helping Sunni Islamofascists ascend to power as part of the Carter / Reagan Doctrine was appauling as far as I am concerned. Seriously, why support presidents that do more to advance Saudi Arabian interests than our own?

On topic:

I completely agree with Trump's econmic stance because you really need to be backed by a tough negotiator in order to reap the benefits of international trade. There is no point in approaching the global market with the intent to sign unequel treaties that favor other nations. This is where I think Trump could do the most good. However, I just don't trust him and I feel that he'll turn out to be little more than another corporate puppet who bows to special interests / the aristocracy and I'm amazed that people put so much faith in him. It's almost like America has never elected a wealthy man to office who simply abused his power to further his own agenda at the expense of the people. Trump seems to be just another greasy politician and it strikes me as naive to believe that he will be any different than those who proceeded him. What he tries to pass off as honest and outspoken seems calculated and manipulative to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OednG4Ha4R0

Every time I hear Trump's name all I can think of is this sound bite. The man's focus on illegal immigration is concerning to say the least. This is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed but it pales in comparison to several other, more damaging problems the nation faces. It seems like he is simply using Mexico to pander to the only demographic taking him seriously while distracting the people from issues he is incapable of tackling.



PDF said:

You have no proof that she couldn't have acheived those accolades on her own but it still does not take away from the fact they are jobs she preformed. We might aswell disqualify Trump purley for being born Rich.

The guy who went after Patraeus does not think she is guilty of any crime.  I agree with him and think it is regrettable.  Any of the emails that the FBI has decided were classified were not marked to be at the time.  This whole witch hunt started to see if she hid Benghazi related emails, and now its about what was and wasnt clasified.  If emails show up that prove she lied under oath during the benghazi committee she is done but until then its all just speculation.  Lets please deal with what we know as fact for right now.

but further more this is an argument on what we find important in a Presidential candidate.  I don't trust most politicians, I care more about how capable I think they are.  Hillary is not charismatic but she proven that she is tough.  She gives boring but good thoughtful answers about how to move our country forward.  I embrace returning to many of the policies that existed under Clinton.  I do not want to see Obama care dismantled.  I believe the minimum wage needs to be raised.  I think LGBTQ community should be added to the civil rights act.  I think Bernie Sanders is to much of an idealist to play ball with republicans. 

I am not a huge Hillary fan, I am just not seeing a better alternative.

She couldn't pass the bar exam in Washington DC,  and indication that she isn't quite as brilliant as you would lead everyone to believe.  She would not have been a lawyer in Washington DC. Without being a lawyer in DC, she probably wouldn't have had much of a political career.  She passed her bar exam in Arkansas (but only moved to Arkansas because of Bill Clinton, the eventual Governor and President of the United States).   Proof enough?  

Again -- you have no idea that she could have achieved  those accolades without that leg up either.  Which is precisely the point.  Judging by the amount of smart , qualified women that have followed in her footsteps and came before her that never reached that level -- I have a very, very hard time believing that without the leg up she's received that she would have achieved what she has.      And quite frequently,  people will dismiss Trump because of his families wealth.  As a matter of fact, that's one of the constant attacks that's used against him to diminish his 4 billion dollar + net wealth.  Despite the fact that he's essentially at a minimum increased it near 10-fold.

So essentially -- You think 90s Clinton-esque economic prosperity would magically follow Hilary (Ignoring the Internet boom and subsequent crash near the end of the Clinton economy. in addition to the passage of NAFTA which has hurt this country immensely) and you care about a bunch of social issues that are questionably important/necessary and very clearly you're a baseline democratic voter.  Got it.    We're not going to come to terms on anything.  

Economic prosperity will be the driving factor in turning this country better or worse and it's pretty much that simple.  Economic prosperity needs to return if we're ever going to get back on that pedastal of success. Voting in the same old silver tongued politicians who have no experience in anything in regard to that is akin to failure.  

Continuation of Obama/Clinton economic policy means more slowed growth in this country,  look no further than the latest GDP numbers which are some of the slowest recovery rates in nearly a century.  



bouzane said:
Rpruett said:

What ideals are those exactly, changing her mind and lying to say whatever is applicable and works at the time?  If her last name were Jones instead of Clinton,  her resume would be vapor.  Two for the price of one, are we electing Hilary or are we re-electing Bill Clinton?  Why not elect a Bush then hell, that's like three for the price of one.

A presidential candidate being investigated by the FBI for distinctly breaking the law (a crime we've watched several others get crucified and lose their career over) and having a completely isolated server outside of anybodies jurisdiction?  That doesn't concern you, that your selection for President has no regard for the laws that she would gladly lock you away with for life for breaking?    Sorry but that's a stupid way to look at things.

As for Reagan -- I wasn't aware he was running.  He is in no way relevant to this discussion, but a classic strawman argument never hurt anybody.  By the time Contra happened it was already well into a successful presidency and the ultimate intentions of Contra were relatively pure.


I just have to ask, in what way was Reagan's presidency successful? Also, how in the hell were his intentions in the Iran Contra scandal pure? Helping Sunni Islamofascists ascend to power as part of the Carter / Reagan Doctrine was appauling as far as I am concerned. Seriously, why support presidents that do more to advance Saudi Arabian interests than our own?

On topic:

I completely agree with Trump's econmic stance because you really need to be backed by a tough negotiator in order to reap the benefits of international trade. There is no point in approaching the global market with the intent to sign unequel treaties that favor other nations. This is where I think Trump could do the most good. However, I just don't trust him and I feel that he'll turn out to be little more than another corporate puppet who bows to special interests / the aristocracy and I'm amazed that people put so much faith in him. It's almost like America has never elected a wealthy man to office who simply abused his power to further his own agenda at the expense of the people. Trump seems to be just another greasy politician and it strikes me as naive to believe that he will be any different than those who proceeded him. What he tries to pass off as honest and outspoken seems calculated and manipulative to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OednG4Ha4R0

Every time I hear Trump's name all I can think of is this sound bite. The man's focus on illegal immigration is concerning to say the least. This is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed but it pales in comparison to several other, more damaging problems the nation faces. It seems like he is simply using Mexico to pander to the only demographic taking him seriously while distracting the people from issues he is incapable of tackling.

His economic success is very evident for almost anyone to look at the statistics.  The economy that Reagan inherited was in worse shape than the one that Obama had inherited as well.  This country grew significantly, economically speaking during the Reagan presidency and Bush 1 and Clinton were benefactors of it.  GDP growth from the tenure of the Reagan presidency was around 32% net growth.  Median household income increased close to 10% during Reagan's presidency (Has been absolutely stagnant during Obama presidency for example).

It doesn't pale in comparison.  This country needs to regain it's economic power in order to remain the most relevant world power.  Illegal immigration is a big problem because of the ever increasing social safety net and taking jobs from legal Americans.  Last numbers that I have read -- Have over 300,000 illegal immigrants ending up in this country per year and the net effect of that is exponential.  Especially -- when you factor in the fact that this country has almost enitrely lost their manufacturing sector to Chin and Mexico.   So now,  all lower paying jobs are going to illegal immigrants and there's an able bodied segment of America that can't get jobs. 

Trump's primary focus is to ensure America becomes an economic powerhouse.  Illegal immigration is  tied into that primary focus because of how it impacts the countries ability to grow.



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Rpruett said:
bouzane said:


I just have to ask, in what way was Reagan's presidency successful? Also, how in the hell were his intentions in the Iran Contra scandal pure? Helping Sunni Islamofascists ascend to power as part of the Carter / Reagan Doctrine was appauling as far as I am concerned. Seriously, why support presidents that do more to advance Saudi Arabian interests than our own?

On topic:

I completely agree with Trump's econmic stance because you really need to be backed by a tough negotiator in order to reap the benefits of international trade. There is no point in approaching the global market with the intent to sign unequel treaties that favor other nations. This is where I think Trump could do the most good. However, I just don't trust him and I feel that he'll turn out to be little more than another corporate puppet who bows to special interests / the aristocracy and I'm amazed that people put so much faith in him. It's almost like America has never elected a wealthy man to office who simply abused his power to further his own agenda at the expense of the people. Trump seems to be just another greasy politician and it strikes me as naive to believe that he will be any different than those who proceeded him. What he tries to pass off as honest and outspoken seems calculated and manipulative to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OednG4Ha4R0

Every time I hear Trump's name all I can think of is this sound bite. The man's focus on illegal immigration is concerning to say the least. This is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed but it pales in comparison to several other, more damaging problems the nation faces. It seems like he is simply using Mexico to pander to the only demographic taking him seriously while distracting the people from issues he is incapable of tackling.

His economic success is very evident for almost anyone to look at the statistics.  The economy that Reagan inherited was in worse shape than the one that Obama had inherited as well.  This country grew significantly, economically speaking during the Reagan presidency and Bush 1 and Clinton were benefactors of it.  GDP growth from the tenure of the Reagan presidency was around 32% net growth.  Median household income increased close to 10% during Reagan's presidency (Has been absolutely stagnant during Obama presidency for example).

It doesn't pale in comparison.  This country needs to regain it's economic power in order to remain the most relevant world power.  Illegal immigration is a big problem because of the ever increasing social safety net and taking jobs from legal Americans.  Last numbers that I have read -- Have over 300,000 illegal immigrants ending up in this country per year and the net effect of that is exponential.  Especially -- when you factor in the fact that this country has almost enitrely lost their manufacturing sector to Chin and Mexico.   So now,  all lower paying jobs are going to illegal immigrants and there's an able bodied segment of America that can't get jobs. 

Trump's primary focus is to ensure America becomes an economic powerhouse.  Illegal immigration is  tied into that primary focus because of how it impacts the countries ability to grow.


There is no debate that Reagan inherited an economic situation that was terrible to put it mildly but I don't know if I would call it worse than the mess that Bush Jr created.  You raise some valid points but Reagan's economic accomplishments still don't strike me as particularly impressive considering the amount of debt he racked up during his time in office. I agree that the recovery from the 2007 recession is appauling but that still doesn't make the 1981 recovery especially impressive either. Just because the Obama administration is an utter joke doesn't mean that the two years it took for Reagan to reverse the upward climb in unemployment was worthy of praise (especially when taken in context).

TL/DR

Reagan = D
Obama = F

Also, I'm still not seeing illegal immegration as being nearly as big of an issue as Trump is making it out to be and I think he's using it as a distraction tactic. That being said, I do believe that it is a problem and would certainly want to see somebody finally address it.



Rpruett said:
Naufraguito said:
Saying that one woman with a long political career became senator, and secretary of state of USA, only because her husband, with giving no arguments for that affirmation, is not incredibly sexist?

Well, then I will say Sarah Palin became governor of Alaska because her fabulous hairstyle.

There's nothing sexist about it.   (Although, in a typical Liberal-ish retort the classic fallback for someone who disagrees with them must be (Sexist, Racist, Fox News, Reagan, Palin)

She became Senator because of her husband, end of discussion.  Her career prior to that point was very mediocre and truly is not the type of career you become a senator behind.  You know it and I know it.   Sarah Palin is pretty brain dead, but even she had a far more linear path to her role as Governor.  However, I agree Palin was a probably a fresh face on stale politics -- to deny that physical appearance can help or influence helps is to deny reality.  


If that's not a strong argument, I don't know what it.



naruball said:
Rpruett said:

There's nothing sexist about it.   (Although, in a typical Liberal-ish retort the classic fallback for someone who disagrees with them must be (Sexist, Racist, Fox News, Reagan, Palin)

She became Senator because of her husband, end of discussion.  Her career prior to that point was very mediocre and truly is not the type of career you become a senator behind.  You know it and I know it.   Sarah Palin is pretty brain dead, but even she had a far more linear path to her role as Governor.  However, I agree Palin was a probably a fresh face on stale politics -- to deny that physical appearance can help or influence helps is to deny reality.  


If that's not a strong argument, I don't know what it.

She failed her DC bar exam -- No quicker way to de-rail a 'political career'.   Your move.



Rpruett said:
naruball said:


If that's not a strong argument, I don't know what it.

She failed her DC bar exam -- No quicker way to de-rail a 'political career'.   Your move.


The nerve wanting to be president even though she failed her DC bar exam. Argh!!! *shakes fist*

We all know that all brilliant minds and worthy leaders passed all their exams with flying colours. Why are we even talking about a person who didn't pass her exam? smh



naruball said:
Rpruett said:

There's nothing sexist about it.   (Although, in a typical Liberal-ish retort the classic fallback for someone who disagrees with them must be (Sexist, Racist, Fox News, Reagan, Palin)

She became Senator because of her husband, end of discussion.  Her career prior to that point was very mediocre and truly is not the type of career you become a senator behind.  You know it and I know it.   Sarah Palin is pretty brain dead, but even she had a far more linear path to her role as Governor.  However, I agree Palin was a probably a fresh face on stale politics -- to deny that physical appearance can help or influence helps is to deny reality.  


If that's not a strong argument, I don't know what it.

her husband is the most loved president since kennedy, and she didnt won a seat, they gave it to her because of her husband, it wasnt a contested seat by any means, every democrat could have won it. palin, as stupid as she is, did everything on her own.