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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo NX: Hardware Specs, Games, Third Party Support And Everything You Need To Know

Wyrdness said:
twintail said:

the game and publisher support was still there for a good few years after the DS launched. Couple it with Nintendo made software and it would have been healthy.

 

One the best selling games on PSP was a late 2009 release: GT with over 4 million sales and yet VGC lists it at only 3 million. That is a large chunk of sales for 1 single game from 2009 onwards that your source is innaccurate. PSP still received game support, and still receives game support to this day.

No the majority of ppl expected the WiiU version to sell less when it was discovered that the 3DS version was going to release a good few months first. It was pretty obvious to everyone which version would sell better because of that scenario.

  


Lets look at the scenario you're putting forward and use another example to highlight how it could have played out, so Nintendo keeps the GBA around and it gets a few more sales problem is with out the DS but then Sony may have taken hold of the portable market, the SNES was healthy when the PS1 and Saturn arrived but the result of that was that when the N64 came it was thrown in a losing battle by default against the PS1, Monster Hunter made its jump to PSP not long after it launched and that was a huge killer app for the PSP and the GBA at that point already had all its big guns out, MH could have done for PSP what the likes of Wipeout and Crash did for PS1. That risk was far too big for Nintendo to take and they were right as PSP sold GBA numbers for a while after launch, Playstation as a brand was a massively known factor in gaming at this point unlike with the SNES so the risk was even bigger.

That game highlights my point it's one of the best selling games so they have some numbers for it even if as you claim they're inaccurate the site indicates that it sold well.

Sorry but that'snot true as the majority of people didn't expect the portable version to sell more at any point because the Smash community are console based and fighting games on portables struggle, the earlier release was seen by people as an attempt to give the portable version a chance to sell as everyone expected the home version to demolish the portable version if released together and it's possible Nintendo may have felt the same.


Atleast backup what you're saying lol. I certainly expected Smash 3DS to annihilate Wiius Smash hands down. Bigger user base and earlier release was absolutely retarded on Nintys part. It also served as proof Ninty doesn't give a damn about home consoles.



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twintail said:


The operative word is 'may'. Regardless, why the DS came is really a non-issue.  Whether the market would be the same or different is an interesting argument but all I am saying is that with the release of the DS before the PSP, the GBA's hardware decline was first affected by the DS before the PSP. That cannot be denied.

It is hard to tell with the SNES since Nintendo's own numbers dont include what it did from its launch year. Yet the N64's problem was not that it launched later (though of course that can be a contributing factor), its that it was strained for 3rd party games, which Sony was snatching up left and right, especially in 1997. the DS was never going to have that problem since Nintendo's handhelds always have healthy 3rd party support (until the 3DS).

MH became a killer app with the release of the 2nd game. The first did decently enough, but it wasnt what set the PSP ablaze. And the scenario you describe is one Nintendo could never have known or even predicted. There was no 'monster hunter' since the game was so poorly recieved on the PS2, who would have thought that would have changed 2 entries later on the PSP? It would have had no real effect on the GBA, and it had no real effect against the DS either.

But you were saying that homebrew stopped games selling well from 2009. And the site undertracked its sales so it most likely did the same for other PSP games.

Well on this we just have to assume one of us are correct. Im not sure what the sentiment on VG was, but the strong sentiment outside on other forums I saw was 3DS Smash sales being way better, purely due to install base and its early release. I doubt Nintendo felt the home version to do better: the 3DS was making them money where the WiiU was not. Priortising the 3DS made a lot more sense finacially than it did the WiiU version and that business decision ended up being the correct one for them. WiiU still hasnt really picked up momentum even with the year it had with Smash.

 


It cannot be denied that the PSP forced that situation especially given how Nintendo operated before the PSP, all other hand helds weren't cut short but the second a real probable threat appears the GBA was dropped and that's what it comes down to. N64's problems stemmed from that massive 2 year delay the was only one viable platform on the market for 2 years to release games for if you were a developer doing 3D games, this is how Sony snatched up third parties, the Saturn had coding issues due to a hardware flaw. Nintendo didn't want risking history repeating itself, this is if the GBA remained fine as you claim which personally I don't see as PSP was essentially at the time a next gen GBA in a sense and going by Nintendo cutting the GBA short it seems they didn't see it your way either. 

The first MH game on PSP sold 500k in its first week and something like 200k PSPs were shifted with it, this was in 2005 the launch year of the PSP, to highlight my point this was the type of scenario Nintendo moved to counter. They weren't expecting MH to be the killer app they just expecting a possible killer app in general, it would have had a massive effect on the GBA as MH was the game that ignited PSP in Japan and brought the developers on board. With out the DS there the type of good support the PSP had in its last 3 or so years from the developers would have materialized much earlier and possibly when MH became a blockbuster making the DS' fight a lot harder had it not launched beforehand to compete with it.

I wasn't talking about VGC strictly in fact I didn't follow the notion here on this as I'm on a number of boards like Gametrailers, SB, CVG etc... the handheld version wasn't expected to sell more then the home console on the boards I saw and a number of fans. A large part of this is due to the competitive scene that drives the series being console exclusive until the 4th game and the performance of fighters on portables in general, people were expecting it to sell but not more then the home version.



twintail said:

 

Look, we have past this why the DS was released discussion. We know why. Constantly bringing this up is not going to change that the GBA was first affected by the release of the DS before the PSP. That is just how it is.

THere are many reasons why the N64 failed. Launching later was not the sole, of even major reason. Their bullish attidude towards 3rd parties, and their desire to not adopt CD`s as a medium played a larger impact on how the N64 would ultimately be recieved.

PSP launched in JPN in 2004. The 1st PSP MH launched in Dec 2005 and only sold around 120K (not 500k) and moved about 89k hardware. It launched in other regions a year after their PSP too. So I have no idea where you are getting these facts or figures from.

Well your experiene is not the same but I think its absurd anyone would think the WiiU smash was going to sell better than the 3DS version taking into account 1) late release or 2)massive install base changes.  But it is what it is is.

Nope you cannot deny what I've posted and that's what it comes down to PSP is the main factor in ending the GBA no matter how you try to spin it.

Nintendo were bullish towards 3rd parties since the early 80s and PS1 wasn't the only console to use CDs either, what it comes down to is the delay, why? Because consumers had little choice but to consider the PS1, the Saturn cost £400 which as inflation goes would be more then the PS3 and X1 launch prices and and with the N64 two years away Sony took full advantage of being left unchecked for two years. It's not tech or anything complicated because if the N64 had released with the Saturn and PS1 it would have dealt with both of them quite well but Nintendo gave up the market taking their time and couldn't recover, the was not shortage of other consoles for third parties to support the PS1 even though a good platform had the fortune of being handed the market by Sega and Nintendo.



First NX should be region free. So us gamers don't go to this NA only have digital only release while EU has a retail release.

I believe EU games would have english translation of the game so NA should also get those. English, Spanish and maybe French are already good for NA audience. For SA, Spanish, English, Portuguese would be good.

it is just a crazy thing about region locks, and I believe it is not hardware limitations. make it happen Nintendo.



Wyrdness said:
twintail said:

 

Look, we have past this why the DS was released discussion. We know why. Constantly bringing this up is not going to change that the GBA was first affected by the release of the DS before the PSP. That is just how it is.

THere are many reasons why the N64 failed. Launching later was not the sole, of even major reason. Their bullish attidude towards 3rd parties, and their desire to not adopt CD`s as a medium played a larger impact on how the N64 would ultimately be recieved.

PSP launched in JPN in 2004. The 1st PSP MH launched in Dec 2005 and only sold around 120K (not 500k) and moved about 89k hardware. It launched in other regions a year after their PSP too. So I have no idea where you are getting these facts or figures from.

Well your experiene is not the same but I think its absurd anyone would think the WiiU smash was going to sell better than the 3DS version taking into account 1) late release or 2)massive install base changes.  But it is what it is is.

Nope you cannot deny what I've posted and that's what it comes down to PSP is the main factor in ending the GBA no matter how you try to spin it.

Nintendo were bullish towards 3rd parties since the early 80s and PS1 wasn't the only console to use CDs either, what it comes down to is the delay, why? Because consumers had little choice but to consider the PS1, the Saturn cost £400 which as inflation goes would be more then the PS3 and X1 launch prices and and with the N64 two years away Sony took full advantage of being left unchecked for two years. It's not tech or anything complicated because if the N64 had released with the Saturn and PS1 it would have dealt with both of them quite well but Nintendo gave up the market taking their time and couldn't recover, the was not shortage of other consoles for third parties to support the PS1 even though a good platform had the fortune of being handed the market by Sega and Nintendo.


Eh ... yes and no I would say. I kinda get where you're going but as someone who really remembers this time period well (I followed the N64/Project: Reality from *day 1*, I remember getting the EGM in Oct '93 announcing it). Back in those days you could actually call in to the Nintendo help line (1-800-255-3700 I think ... haha, still remember the phone number!) and the Nintendo reps would actually talk to you about future/current game announcements. 

Like I remember one Nintendo rep telling me the N64 would have tech like the Reboot CGI TV show was brand new then, I also first learned about Donkey Kong Country from a Nintendo rep that way, he told me they had a new game called DKC coming and it would make Super Metroid (which had just been released) "look like a cartoon". Good times, I chuckle thinking of those days now. 

The Playstation brand did not really start to rev up until 1996 to be honest. It wasn't really until the release of Resident Evil that it got its first real "must play" killer app and quite honestly. It wasn't so much the head start. 

I maintain to this day if Nintendo had come to their senses, ditched the 64DD, and even just made a CD-ROM add-on for the N64 for 1997 and sat down and made peace with their third party partners (most notably Squaresoft and Enix) ... they would have won that generation. 

The lack of games, due to the cartridge format, really killed Nintendo. I remember so many of my friends bought an N64 first, but then ended up buying a Playstation later on and adopting that as their "main" platform (N64 was kept around mainly for GoldenEye late night sessions). But it was just the volume of games ... because of the CD format, the Playstation just trounced the N64 for variety. 



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twintail said:


Its hard to spin anything when I have already accepted you notion. It's really just you failing to accept the reality the Nintendo had a hand in the GBA's decline.

Your willingness to shift blame away from Nintendo is impressive in terms of patrotism, and pretty silly at the same time. But what do I know? I have merely been presenting data that is far more correct than you have but clearly I am 'spinning things'.

 

Devs had no choice when NES and SNES were the only viable platforms to support. It is different with the PS1 because Sony were less controlling on software, and offered a medium that was both cheaper on licensing and with more storage to make games.

A PS1 disc could hold like 600 MB. The most you got out of the N64 was 64MB. This was actually the major determing factor in how Nintendo lost 3rd party support the N64 cartierdigers just held too little data for what some devs were trying to make. The most well known of these is FF7, originally in design for N64 but moved to PS1 because of the CD medium.

This is what defined the PS1/ N64 generation, not release dates. In fact, the best selling PS1 games did not release until 1996 (year of the N64 launch) and later. When it started to become a reality who 3rd party devs were supporting so did the tide for Nintendo change.

N64 could have released with the PS1 and the outcome would be pretty much the same. N64 games cost devs more, thus costing more for consumers. N64 games held a vaetly limited space range compared to the competition. This was the problem with the N64.

No you're trying to spin it to make it look like it's more accurate, you've accepted the notion because it's true PSP is the central factor in ending the GBA early it's not shifting the blame from anyone it's a fact, Nintendo would have held off the DS for much longer if Sony didn't enter the market, this is evident in how the GBA was originally meant to release at around the mid 90s or so but was delayed until the 00s, the was no competition so the was no urgency.

Nope developers had a viable choice they were called Sega and the Megadrive did very well, you should also look up the real differences between cartridge and discs it was never space it was price. Cartridges could hold any amount needed but the price was well too high.

If N64 had release with PS1 and Sega not messed up the Saturn the PS1 would have gone the way of many other consoles that tried to enter the market it would have been more likely for Sega to become market leader because consumers wouldn't have give it a chance at all. Sony were handed a golden ticket by the two big competitors in the market and utilized it well.

 

Soundwave

 

I remember that period well, PS1 in the UK took off with Wipeout in 95, 96 is when things really heated up true but at that point PS1 in sales was well ahead of the Saturn making it a more viable platform and giving developers more confidence in it.

I agree a CD drive would have helped a lot more but they weren't going to catch the PS1 by the time they launched I remember reading a magazine a month after the N64 launch, the PS1 was already heading to the 30m mark. The delay was harmful to them as ironically it was Sega cocking up that really hurt them as consumers had no alternative then the PS1 for 3D gaming unless you had serious money to burn for a Saturn, the Saturn also had an issue where the console only came with a scart something TVs at the time were only just getting accustomed to.

Because of the PS1's success developers were then more willing to avoid cartridges and the N64, it wasn't the format itself that was the cause of the PS1's success as that was an eventual contributor to it.



Come 2016 "Damn it guys, the NX releases in 2 months and we haven't announced it!" *Sega laughs in the background*



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gabzjmm23 said:
First NX should be region free. So us gamers don't go to this NA only have digital only release while EU has a retail release.

I believe EU games would have english translation of the game so NA should also get those. English, Spanish and maybe French are already good for NA audience. For SA, Spanish, English, Portuguese would be good.

it is just a crazy thing about region locks, and I believe it is not hardware limitations. make it happen Nintendo.

I think Iwata said something in March about how Nintendo is looking into making the NX region free!



                
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AZWification said:
gabzjmm23 said:
First NX should be region free. So us gamers don't go to this NA only have digital only release while EU has a retail release.

I believe EU games would have english translation of the game so NA should also get those. English, Spanish and maybe French are already good for NA audience. For SA, Spanish, English, Portuguese would be good.

it is just a crazy thing about region locks, and I believe it is not hardware limitations. make it happen Nintendo.

I think Iwata said something in March about how Nintendo is looking into making the NX region free!

Can Nintendo even surprise us, with the DENA-Nintendo loyalty/membership service and push Wii U and 3Ds as region free.  That would be a great start. 



twintail said:

I've accepted the notion that the PSP announcement is what caused Nintendo to push ahead with the DS, and nothing else. But just to get this straight, you are basically saying that the GBA decline was caused because Sony announced the PSP?

The Megadrive had potential. It has support especially in sports games.

It lacked legacy, established IP`s and major 3rd party support. SNES had all of this but on a larger level. 

SNES launched 2 years after the Genesis. N64 launched 2 years after the PS1.  

SNES triumphed quite easily over the Genesis. N64 failed.

If we use your logic, SEGA should have beaten Nintendo because Nintendo were 2 years too late to the market.

The PS1 also lacked legacy. It also lacked established IP's. What it did not lack, at least eventually, was 3rd party support, which mainly came after the N64 had been released. This 3rd party support did not come from being 2 years early on the market. It came because Sony made parterships with developers easier and cheaper. It came, because they offered a medium that was cheaper to produce and held more space.

in 1995, after the PS1 launched the SNES was getting games such as MMX2, MM7, Cpt Commando, NG Trilogy, CV, Chrono Trigger, Fatal Fury,  super bomberman, among others. 1996 still saw some strong SNES titles such as super mario rpg but with the N64 due in the same year SNES software naturally slowed down to make way for the next Nintendo console.

Devs were waiting for the N64.

When you have devs like Square actively say they switched to PS1 because of its storage medium, it is easy to understand why games like MGS (which had an N64 version in development at one stage) only released on PS1.  This is the fundemental problem the N64 had and what held it back.

No I said the GBA decline happened because of the PSP in general.

Mega Drive sold around 40m units, a full 30m more units then its predecessor, it wasn't just potential it was Sega gearing up to eventually become market leader in the long run. The SNES sold about 50m, when you factor in the sales of Master System to NES was 10m to 60m they closed the gap heavily and it highlights the was another viable platform, Mega Drive also ended its run in 94 as opposed the SNES ending its run in 96 the latter was active for an extra two years.

Again storage is a fundamental problem yes but it's not the sole source of the PS1's triumph, the cause of it was simply that it got what other platforms didn't a clear shot at success due to both Sega and Nintendo cocking up. Sony began making those deals because they were taking note of the situation, they saw the Saturn sink like a stone leaving them the only platform for 3D games, those deals highlight the format alone was not the main factor in moving developers early on even with its advantages as the Saturn also used CDs.

They were smart enough to realize that developers may still opt for the N64 regardless because of their legacy so began doing those deals, when the PS1 achieved mainstream success it was easier for developers to move over to PS1 after all 30m at the launch of the N64 is over half of what the SNES had sold.