By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - 6th of August. Day of Hiroshima bombing.

Augen said:
In war you generally have a series of bad choices because people will die due to them. I take no pride that World War II saw massive civilian death, but I understand how a conventional invasion could have lasted years and cost several times the same number of lives. I don't envy those that made the choice.

World War II had many atrocities, the Japanese weren't immune to committing them as many Chinese will tell you. We can bear old grudges for what happen or elect to move on, which I'd argue has been good for Japan and the United States.

Bombing a city either way as you point out leads to death on a massive scale. Coventry and Dresden being famous examples. If you want to point to a good consequence of Hiroshima is that the Soviet Union and United States seeing the awesome destructive power realized that another war would be mutual annihilation. Since World War II we have witnessed a scaling back of major nation states engaging in war being replaced by commerce. Shame we had to learn such a brutal lesson through millions of deaths including whole cities wiped out in a day, but seems only thing prevent us from engaging in such madness is to raise the stakes that high. At least, for 70 years we have.

Japan capitulated because of USSR invading korea rather than the nuclear bomb, many historians are proving that

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/



Around the Network
KLAMarine said:
akuseru said:
I think it is ironic that the 'world police' who is spreading fear about other nations having nuclear weapons, and in some cases even lying about it (Iraq), is the only country that has ever used one. Not only have they used it once, but twice even.

Who better to warn the world of nuclear weapons than those who have first-hand experience?


They are not "warning" anyone. They only want to stay in control. The whole world, and especially Japan experienced the bombs. The US did not experience anything other than that they know that they are in possession of a weapon that can annihilate any threats.



SvennoJ said:
KLAMarine said:

The idea is it reduced war casualties by bringing the war to a close much quicker with the use of a frightening new weapon. No need for a long and drawn out land invasion. Scare the enemy into surrender rather than having to fight the millions who were being mobilized to defend the homeland.

Except it doesn't work. Would the USA surrender when one of more cities get levelled with a Nuclear bomb?

If up against overwhelming odds, I would consider it. Consider Japan's circumstances at the time of surrender: Japan's major ally Germany had long surrendered, its cities were getting bombed with almost no way to retaliate, the USSR had just declared war. It's a culmination of factors that brought Japan to the surrender table, not just one. Bombing alone doesn't bring surrender but it can still play its role. Provides incentive: surrender and the bombing stops.

akuseru said:
KLAMarine said:
akuseru said:
I think it is ironic that the 'world police' who is spreading fear about other nations having nuclear weapons, and in some cases even lying about it (Iraq), is the only country that has ever used one. Not only have they used it once, but twice even.

Who better to warn the world of nuclear weapons than those who have first-hand experience?

They are not "warning" anyone. They only want to stay in control. The whole world, and especially Japan experienced the bombs. The US did not experience anything other than that they know that they are in possession of a weapon that can annihilate any threats.

Funny you accuse the United States of wanting to stay in control when for the past decades, the US has been dismantling its stockpile in collaboration with their European allies and the USSR/Russia. Seems more like an attempt to avoid a catastrophic world war than to try to "stay in control".



The US for example still has more than half of its 1990 arsenal. And estimated destruction capability is still about 2/3.

Stockpile in the 60's was way bigger though and there already was a massive reduction in the 70's and 80's.

Soviets and later Russia at some point had an even bigger stockpile but also reduced it massively. But US and Russia combined have an estimated destruction capability of 4.000 megatons> 4.000.000 kt. That ist 200.000 times the Fat Man bomb which destroyed Nagasaki , just more accurate.

Again, this is the reduced stockpile of today. Without the giant multi megaton devices of the 50's and 60's.



I do understand why U.S. used these bomb in a certain way.... what i don't understant its why TWO ? one single one and a warning for more should have been enough for japan to surrender, juste for this, i  call  them monster !



Around the Network
Saeko said:

I do understand why U.S. used these bomb in a certain way.... what i don't understant its why TWO ? one single one and a warning for more should have been enough for japan to surrender, juste for this, i  call  them monster !

From Wiki:
'A uranium gun-type atomic bomb (Little Boy) was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, followed by a plutonium implosion-type bomb (Fat Man) on the city of Nagasaki on August 9.'

So USA was testing two different types of nuclear bombs. Thats why it was two bombings. 



Sharu said:
Saeko said:

I do understand why U.S. used these bomb in a certain way.... what i don't understant its why TWO ? one single one and a warning for more should have been enough for japan to surrender, juste for this, i  call  them monster !

From Wiki:
'A uranium gun-type atomic bomb (Little Boy) was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, followed by a plutonium implosion-type bomb (Fat Man) on the city of Nagasaki on August 9.'

So USA was testing two different types of nuclear bombs. Thats why it was two bombings. 

Yeah but its why i call them monster :D  the first is somewhat jusified not second one !



Implosion type was tested with Trinity. Cause they did not know if it would work as planned. Gun type didn't need testing, which is why they dropped it without.

Main reason for the nukes was to keep the Soviets out of Japans surrender and following negotiations as well as demonstrating power because the Soviets had the way bigger conventional army.

Why Japan did not react immediately:
Conventional bombings kept on until the 15th of august and actually no one directly realized what had happened in Hiroshima.
There's other stuff as well. The Soviets atteacked Manchukuo, basically a japanese puppet state at august 8th.

There was a discussion in the US on why spending 2 billion dollars for weapons and then not use them.

And so on. Basically there's no single and simple point. But effectively the cold war forecasted it's shadows as soon as WW II had ended, so politics against USSR was an important part.

What sucks though is the US army and scientists using Hiroshima and Nagasaki basically as big labs to study the effects of the bombings like radiation sickness.



Saeko said:

I do understand why U.S. used these bomb in a certain way.... what i don't understant its why TWO ? one single one and a warning for more should have been enough for japan to surrender, juste for this, i  call  them monster !

How do you know this?

Sharu said:
Saeko said:

I do understand why U.S. used these bomb in a certain way.... what i don't understant its why TWO ? one single one and a warning for more should have been enough for japan to surrender, juste for this, i  call  them monster !

From Wiki:
'A uranium gun-type atomic bomb (Little Boy) was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, followed by a plutonium implosion-type bomb (Fat Man) on the city of Nagasaki on August 9.'

So USA was testing two different types of nuclear bombs. Thats why it was two bombings.

Your reasoning is terribly flawed. Have you considered the possibility that perhaps there were two bombings because the Japanese were still not willing to surrender following the first atom bomb?



KLAMarine said:
Saeko said:

I do understand why U.S. used these bomb in a certain way.... what i don't understant its why TWO ? one single one and a warning for more should have been enough for japan to surrender, juste for this, i  call  them monster !

How do you know this?

Sharu said:
Saeko said:

I do understand why U.S. used these bomb in a certain way.... what i don't understant its why TWO ? one single one and a warning for more should have been enough for japan to surrender, juste for this, i  call  them monster !

From Wiki:
'A uranium gun-type atomic bomb (Little Boy) was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, followed by a plutonium implosion-type bomb (Fat Man) on the city of Nagasaki on August 9.'

So USA was testing two different types of nuclear bombs. Thats why it was two bombings.

Your reasoning is terribly flawed. Have you considered the possibility that perhaps there were two bombings because the Japanese were still not willing to surrender following the first atom bomb?

Well, maybe you need another 9/11, since you didn't surrender after the first one?