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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - I really wish Microsoft invested into Phantom Dust or a new game rather than Rise of the Tomb Raider.

sasquatchmontana said:
Jimbo1337 said:

The fact that Darkside studios was working on their first game (Phantom Dust) by themselves, only underscores the pool of game developers that are left for Microsoft to choose from. 

The comments from the ex-employee denotes the studio deliberately mis-led Microsoft, to string them along for more money. It's no surprise they'd go elsewere.

Suddenly, what was once a $5 million multiplayer reboot of Phantom Dust had become a $5 million multiplayer reboot of Phantom Dust with a six-hour single-player story mode attached. That meant Darkside would need more designers, more artists, and more programmers, all of which equated to extra time and money that they didn’t have. Still, employees say they were committed to pulling it off. This was their first solo project. They wanted to prove they were good enough to do it. According to one Darkside source, their tentative plan was to build a fun vertical slice—a playable and demonstrable chunk of the game—and use it to persuade Microsoft into giving them more money.

The version of the story that I heard was that Microsoft initially gave them a budget and told them to go make a multiplayer experience only.  Then Microsoft came to Darkside Studios and told them to add a six hour singler player experience as well without an increase in budget.  I am therefore unsure of which version of the story to trust.  :(



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Jimbo1337 said:
sasquatchmontana said:


The comments from the ex-employee denotes the studio deliberately mis-led Microsoft, to string them along for more money. It's no surprise they'd go elsewere.

Suddenly, what was once a $5 million multiplayer reboot of Phantom Dust had become a $5 million multiplayer reboot of Phantom Dust with a six-hour single-player story mode attached. That meant Darkside would need more designers, more artists, and more programmers, all of which equated to extra time and money that they didn’t have. Still, employees say they were committed to pulling it off. This was their first solo project. They wanted to prove they were good enough to do it. According to one Darkside source, their tentative plan was to build a fun vertical slice—a playable and demonstrable chunk of the game—and use it to persuade Microsoft into giving them more money.

The version of the story that I heard was that Microsoft initially gave them a budget and told them to go make a multiplayer experience only.  Then Microsoft came to Darkside Studios and told them to add a six hour singler player experience as well without an increase in budget.  I am therefore unsure of which version of the story to trust.  :(


Thats the problem with outsourcing. Too much politics. You cant just smoothly make your own games, which is why Microsoft needs to get better at making their own games, not just paying outsiders for them.



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Last edited by OttoniBastos - on 12 November 2019

sasquatchmontana said:
Snoopy said:

I can't help but feel that Microsoft makes some great moves, like backwards compatability, resolving a lot of resolution gate issues (eventhough I never found it a big deal) and releasing great games. However, everytime they make great decisions, they take two steps back. With the money they invested into tomb raider they could've made phantom dust or a new ip.

Microsoft *is* investing into Phantom Dust and is making a new IP (oh lets say that IP is .......Gigantic) ....with regards to Tomb Raider its.... not like.....Microsoft is.......STRAPPED FOR CASH.PFFFTTTTTHAHAHAHA!

  • Bought Gears, Bought Minecraft, Bought Rise of Nations.
  • Own Scalebound, Quantum Break, Ori, Screamride.
  • Got dibs on Ryse and Sunset Overdrive.
  • Revived Killer Instinct, Crackdown and Phantom Dust
  • Keeping that Gears, Halo, Forza M and Forza H wagon a rollin.

Prefer this over Knack, The Order and Driveclub (RIP in Peace)...at least Microsoft likes to keep it's IP alive and relevant and something to be relied upon every holiday. I'm not a PS4 owner, but i'd wager they would rather play a built for next gen sequel of Syphon FIlter, Colony Wars, Motorstorm, Socom, wipeOut, Jak & Daxter or god of war this holiday then a HD remaster of Beyond/Heavy Rain/uncharted/tearaway.

PotentHerbs said:

We're leaving out titles like Ico, SoTC, Syphon Filter, ...TLG & the tons of fresh first party content over a ten year span.

If you're talking about games that haven't had a release in decades.... Kameo: Elements of Power, Perfect Dark Zero, Viva Pinata, Jetpac Refuelled, Kinect Sports are all seperate IP from a single studio...plus, technically the Ico games are from the same franchise.

Kinect Adventures is on about 30 million copies. Twice as much as the best selling Playstation game. It was created by Good Science Studios, a team created and built by Microsoft Studios sheer force of will.  You are welcome.

Aerys said:

They dont trust their big studios to make new games, Black Tusk was making 3 new AAA games but they just told them " ok it's better if you just forget all this work and just work on gears, safer " , same for 343i, when will wee see an other game than Halo from them ? Maybe they can make a RPG?TPS?...

Alternatively, Halo, Gears and Forza show no signs of slowing in popularity like Killzone, Motorstorm and Uncharted are....did...have. That Microsoft well not drying up.

Also, the management decision behind Black Tusk game changeover was simple. Create new IP, hope it sells vs. take steward of existing IP that does sell. Easy money.

Faelco said:

Sunset Overdrive, Scalebound and Recore are all second or third party, aren't they? So just bought exclusivities, but not "MS new IPs"?

SB, QB and RC are all Microsoft IP, so aside from the fact that they don't own the studio, they are in no danger of being lost to other consoles. The only risk is if these studios encounter financial difficulty and shut down (which bear in mind, can happen even if your 1st party owned)...at which point MS could "offer support" which is swap cash for a stake in the companys shares or wait until chapter 11 and simply save them from bankruptcy.

Either way, fundementally, Microsoft is in position to handle both outcomes. The other risk is if a rival buys them out (but not the IP)...and Microsoft can out bid everyone.

Sunset is unique, because based on what Insomniac told us when they were looking for publishers, every publisher except Microsoft demanded ownership of the IP (including Sony). Sony lost an exclusive, Microsoft gained one and 3rd parties lost a multiplatform title. That's unlikely to change for a sequel.

Insomniac only wants the IP to add value to their company which helps them remain independant, (lets say that value is $30 million)...so *if* Microsoft wanted to create their own studio to continue the SSO franchise and Insomniac wanted to go in a different direction, Microsoft could simple offer them the equivilent value + (Say $60 million) and offer some of the regulars jobs there.

As Gears and Minecraft show...if Microsoft wants the IP, they can get the IP.

Also, I don't recall this being an issue on PS4 given that of these games released ...

  • LBP3 was made by Sumo Digital
  • Bloodborne was made by From Software
  • The Order was Made by Ready at Dawn
  • Until Dawn was made by Supermassive Games
  • Sony San Diago made MLB The Show 2015

...the only internal studio is the bolded....and the MLB IP is not owned by Sony only licensed from the MLBA.

Games developed from studios internally, there is an 18 month gap between Driveclub and Uncharted 4, assuming it releases Q1 2016....

"If you're talking about games that haven't had a release in decades.... Kameo: Elements of Power, Perfect Dark Zero, Viva Pinata, Jetpac Refuelled, Kinect Sports are all seperate IP from a single studio...plus, technically the Ico games are from the same franchise." 

And Sony still has a higher output of games developed throughout the PS1 - PS4 then MS in the OXB to the XOne. You talk about the difference in release years like its significant, lol. Also Japan Studios.

"Kinect Adventures is on about 30 million copies. Twice as much as the best selling Playstation game. It was created by Good Science Studios, a team created and built by Microsoft Studios sheer force of will.  You are welcome." 

Why should I care about Kinect Adventures selling 30 Million when it was bundled as much as Wii Sports? Is that the cream of the crop for the Xbox360? 

"Alternatively, Halo, Gears and Forza show no signs of slowing in popularity like Killzone, Motorstorm and Uncharted are....did...have. That Microsoft well not drying up."

You think Sony IP's aren't relevant? Lmfao. God of War, Uncharted, GT, TLoU (its probably getting a sequel) have something to say. In fact both Uncharted & God of War have grown from every main entry, while Halo has ALREADY showed signs of slowing down. 

You're also reaching with BloodBorne & The Order as Sony's studios helped with the development, unlike (IIRC) MS who just funds the development. I could care less about the dry spells from first parties early in the generation.  I don't buy consoles just for first party titles & I don't buy them to only invest in games coming out in the first couple of years.

MS has all this money and they can't even win a generation, lol....

Finally if you want to point out that Sony has also bought studios like MS, I ask you this: if we're comparing studios built from the ground up, what in MS portfolio matches Sony Japan? 



PotentHerbs said:

"If you're talking about games that haven't had a release in decades.... Kameo: Elements of Power, Perfect Dark Zero, Viva Pinata, Jetpac Refuelled, Kinect Sports are all seperate IP from a single studio...plus, technically the Ico games are from the same franchise." 

And Sony still has a higher output of games developed throughout the PS1 - PS4 then MS in the OXB to the XOne. You talk about the difference in release years like its significant, lol. Also Japan Studios.

"Kinect Adventures is on about 30 million copies. Twice as much as the best selling Playstation game. It was created by Good Science Studios, a team created and built by Microsoft Studios sheer force of will.  You are welcome." 

Why should I care about Kinect Adventures selling 30 Million when it was bundled as much as Wii Sports? Is that the cream of the crop for the Xbox360? 

"Alternatively, Halo, Gears and Forza show no signs of slowing in popularity like Killzone, Motorstorm and Uncharted are....did...have. That Microsoft well not drying up."

You think Sony IP's aren't relevant? Lmfao. God of War, Uncharted, GT, TLoU (its probably getting a sequel) have something to say. In fact both Uncharted & God of War have grown from every main entry, while Halo has ALREADY showed signs of slowing down. 

You're also reaching with BloodBorne & The Order as Sony's studios helped with the development, unlike (IIRC) MS who just funds the development. I could care less about the dry spells from first parties early in the generation.  I don't buy consoles just for first party titles & I don't buy them to only invest in games coming out in the first couple of years.

MS has all this money and they can't even win a generation, lol....

Finally if you want to point out that Sony has also bought studios like MS, I ask you this: if we're comparing studios built from the ground up, what in MS portfolio matches Sony Japan? 

I wouldn't even have commented on his post, you can see the ridiculous bias in it from the first paragraph.

I mean Uncharted is slowing down in popularity? Jesus christ you really have to bend reality to try and say that and that's just one of the things in there that's complete bollocks,.



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PotentHerbs said:

And Sony still has a higher output of games developed throughout the PS1 - PS4 then MS in the OXB to the XOne. You talk about the difference in release years like its significant, lol. Also Japan Studios.

Yeah, PS1, when games could be spit out yearly and they didn't even cost a million to make. How many Sony built PS1 frachises have Survived today? Just GT and the last entry did incredibly poorly.

PotentHerbs said:

Why should I care about Kinect Adventures selling 30 Million when it was bundled as much as Wii Sports? Is that the cream of the crop for the Xbox360? 

You stated Microsoft never made a game that was successful from an internal studio. The truth is, both they and Nintendo have. By at least 2:1 compared to Sony. Sorta pathetic that Kinect costs $150 and Wii Fit something comparable and the best Sony has is GT3 at $59.99, which was also bundled.

Bear in mind, this is something you brought up. At the end of the day, it's really just a false qualifier you set yourself, I think to make you feel better since Minecraft and Halo are eclipsing every Playstation franchise. But hey, at least Sony is losing because of games they thought up themselves....

PotentHerbs said:

 

You think Sony IP's aren't relevant? Lmfao. God of War, Uncharted, GT, TLoU (its probably getting a sequel) have something to say. In fact both Uncharted & God of War have grown from every main entry, while Halo has ALREADY showed signs of slowing down.

I said Killzone and Motorstorm have slowed down. Which isn't really accurate, so much has they have stopped and keeled over. When are the next games in these franchises coming out?  As for Uncharted, well it was indicative of Uncharted 3....but, y'know, even Naughty Dog don't want to make them anymore. Its very telling. Also "Main entry", lol.

Also, you're wrong about Halo, Halo 4 is the best selling Halo of all time. 14 million units.

Quite a bit better then GT6's 3 million and change.

PotentHerbs said:

 

You're also reaching with BloodBorne & The Order as Sony's studios helped with the development

Microsoft helps out with hands on development of every game released on any Xbox....

PotentHerbs said:

 

I could care less about the dry spells from first parties early in the generation.  I don't buy consoles just for first party titles & I don't buy them to only invest in games coming out in the first couple of years.

Early? Sony been showing off this machine for 3 freaking years now ...for a machine that's "For the Players", it sure seems to be largely be about HD remasters and games developed outside of SCE which just exemplifes sonys reliance on 3rd parties .

PotentHerbs said:

 

MS has all this money and they can't even win a generation, lol....

Perhaps not this time, but unlike Sony they will survive it.

PotentHerbs said:

 

what in MS portfolio matches Sony Japan?

Probably none in terms of quantity of IP, especially if you count the PS2 generation. On the otherhand, 90% of those IP are dead, the other 10 % are PSN or Vita games which Microsoft doesn't seem to bother with for about 3,348 reasons. They only seem interested in blockbusters.



sasquatchmontana said:
PotentHerbs said:

And Sony still has a higher output of games developed throughout the PS1 - PS4 then MS in the OXB to the XOne. You talk about the difference in release years like its significant, lol. Also Japan Studios.

Yeah, PS1, when games could be spit out yearly and they didn't even cost a million to make. How many Sony built PS1 frachises have Survived today? Just GT and the last entry did incredibly poorly.

PotentHerbs said:

Why should I care about Kinect Adventures selling 30 Million when it was bundled as much as Wii Sports? Is that the cream of the crop for the Xbox360? 

You stated Microsoft never made a game that was successful from an internal studio. The truth is, both they and Nintendo have. By at least 2:1 compared to Sony. Sorta pathetic that Kinect costs $150 and Wii Fit something comparable and the best Sony has is GT3 at $59.99, which was also bundled.

Bear in mind, this is something you brought up. At the end of the day, it's really just a false qualifier you set yourself, I think to make you feel better since Minecraft and Halo are eclipsing every Playstation franchise. But hey, at least Sony is losing because of games they thought up themselves....

PotentHerbs said:

 

You think Sony IP's aren't relevant? Lmfao. God of War, Uncharted, GT, TLoU (its probably getting a sequel) have something to say. In fact both Uncharted & God of War have grown from every main entry, while Halo has ALREADY showed signs of slowing down.

I said Killzone and Motorstorm have slowed down. Which isn't really accurate, so much has they have stopped and keeled over. When are the next games in these franchises coming out?  As for Uncharted, well it was indicative of Uncharted 3....but, y'know, even Naughty Dog don't want to make them anymore. Its very telling. Also "Main entry", lol.

Also, you're wrong about Halo, Halo 4 is the best selling Halo of all time. 14 million units.

Quite a bit better then GT6's 3 million and change.

PotentHerbs said:

 

You're also reaching with BloodBorne & The Order as Sony's studios helped with the development

Microsoft helps out with hands on development of every game released on any Xbox....

PotentHerbs said:

 

I could care less about the dry spells from first parties early in the generation.  I don't buy consoles just for first party titles & I don't buy them to only invest in games coming out in the first couple of years.

Early? Sony been showing off this machine for 3 freaking years now ...for a machine that's "For the Players", it sure seems to be largely be about HD remasters and games developed outside of SCE which just exemplifes sonys reliance on 3rd parties .

PotentHerbs said:

 

MS has all this money and they can't even win a generation, lol....

Perhaps not this time, but unlike Sony they will survive it.

PotentHerbs said:

 

what in MS portfolio matches Sony Japan?

Probably none in terms of quantity of IP, especially if you count the PS2 generation. On the otherhand, 90% of those IP are dead, the other 10 % are PSN or Vita games which Microsoft doesn't seem to bother with for about 3,348 reasons. They only seem interested in blockbusters.


So if they didn't survive the PS1 era they don't count? Lol. MS still lost if we compare the OXB to the PS2 in first party content produced. What's your excuse? Minecraft is eclipsing every PS franchise, yet it can be played on the PS3/4/Vita? Right. Then you link me to a Wikipedia article regarding Halo 4 sales? Go figure. If we go by VG numbers it still has to crack 10 Million. I also haven't heard an official statement from MS in terms of H4 being the best selling Halo either. You talk about Kinect Adventures like its some kind of saviour for the Xbox. Why couldn't that franchise help the XOne sell units with the Kinect bundled? Lmfao. It's pathetic that a game that "sells" 30 Million & nearly a 2:1 sales advantage compared to the competition can't even get the One on pace to surpass the worst selling PS console. Where are those sales now? GT6 launched at a terrible time, it'll more or less match Halo this generation, but GT5 has sold close to 11 Million. And no it hasn't been three years for the PS4 launch until November 2016 & by then a ton of first party titles will be out. Nice stretch again. You can hope Sony doesn't survive this gen, or MS is in for another second place finish. Finally comparing studios made from the ground up, Sony wins in sales, quality (critic scores) & quantity, pick your poison. 



TheSting said:
Black Tusk Studios was making 3 AAA games?????


it never was. it was just fanboy dreams. 



chickensaviour said:
Yeah they are garbage, it's why PS4 is 23.8 and MS is 13 million....Same rehashed gears , halo forza, and bad busienss practices...Sad thing is TR will get stomped this holiday...what a terrible waste of money. No one is buying an xox over Tomb raider.

You mean same rehashes of games like Little Big Planet 3, Uncharted 4, GoW 3 remaster, The Last of Us remaster or Killzone (4) Shadow Fall? The only reason PS4 is way ahead is because of the blunders MS made when they announced their system. It's not because PS4 has way better games. If Tomb Raider does get "stomped" like you say it will be by games like Halo Guardians and Fallout 4 (with mod support only for X1). It certainly won't get stomped from the lack of any PS4 exclusives this holiday.



I'm just a dude from Philly living in Ireland. 

brandiesel said:
chickensaviour said:
Yeah they are garbage, it's why PS4 is 23.8 and MS is 13 million....Same rehashed gears , halo forza, and bad busienss practices...Sad thing is TR will get stomped this holiday...what a terrible waste of money. No one is buying an xox over Tomb raider.

You mean same rehashes of games like Little Big Planet 3, Uncharted 4, GoW 3 remaster, The Last of Us remaster or Killzone (4) Shadow Fall? The only reason PS4 is way ahead is because of the blunders MS made when they announced their system. It's not because PS4 has way better games. If Tomb Raider does get "stomped" like you say it will be by games like Halo Guardians and Fallout 4 (with mod support only for X1). It certainly won't get stomped from the lack of any PS4 exclusives this holiday.

Yup, so that's a lie.