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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - One of the main problems of MS' first party games

sasquatchmontana said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

They dont need freedom (they were created for the purposes of a single franchise so...yeah..no). Microsoft has no creativity and literally has the mentality of Activision and EA when it comes to game development.

Not exactly a bad thing, Activision especially is hugely successful from this.

S.T.A.G.E. said:

 Focus on a team forever on a franchise. This is exactly why Bungie left them. They did not have any plans  to work on Halo forever.

Bungie wanted to own their IP and reap the rewards. Any grandeur about stifled creativity is immediately debunked with Destiny...sci-fi FPS game that looks and plays eerily like Halo ...only not nearly as good. 5 years for that? Oh what could have been.

S.T.A.G.E. said:

They can just keep pumping Halo out until it dies

Can't blame Microsoft that Halo has a longer lifetime than Killzone, Motorstorm, wipeOut, Syphon Filter, Colony Wars, Jak & Daxter, Playstation All Stars, Puppeteer, Sly Cooper, Driveclub.....Gran Turismo.

Microsoft just know how to nurture like a loving father, Sonys deadbeat Dad approach with cutting and running is why most of their studios are shutting down.

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Sony can allow their devs to pump out new IP's because their devs have. Microsoft has tried and failed since they entered the gaming industry. This is why they keep their good games that they purchased like cards that are held so close to their vest. Without them they are strategically naked.

Sony "allowed" - sheeez, they probably begged -  Geurilla to leave Killzone to die for Horizon because of Shadow Falls meta score and sales. It will be many years before Halo, Gears and Forza come close to that. Had it sold 10 million with a 95% meta, Killzone 5 would be their next game.

Unfortunately Microsofts top tier studios are indeed victims of their own success...and success ....and success.


This guy gets it.



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Agree for Halo 5 , not a fan anymore but this is , outside nintendo games, the game i played the most in split screen in my life, and from what i read, a lot of actual fans are upset and dont care about 60fps rather than split screen, if i was a fan, it would be a game breaker for me



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

People shouldn't complain about Halo 5. The effects alone will probably blow Ryse away.



Microsoft and the Xbox brand has one problem in my eyes overall. They lack diverse, original exclusives and they whore out all of their existing exclusives until you end up with rehashes of the same IP numerous times every few years. The rest of their games can be played on other platforms (PC and generally Playstation systems) and only when Sony shoots themselves in the foot can they obtain these these types of third party games exclusive.

Last generation was essentially :

- Halo
- Gears of War
- Forza
- Fable
- Generic shooter

Rinse wash repeat. One of those four games was their biggest game every single year.

They don't invest in first party studios, they just throw money at a problem. They don't foster a culture of creativity or art. Something that Sony does do. (See Flower, Journey, Heavy Rain, Little Big Planet etc). Why invest in a Microsoft system when a PC or PS system would provide me mostly similar options and often time better options overall in multiple genres?

Microsoft --- If they operated more like Sony and fostered development and creativity would easily be the top console. They just can't change because it's how the company is run.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
LordLichtenstein said:
My biggest "problem" is, that many of their top tier studios don't have any freedom.

343 Industries - Halo Studio

The Coalition - Gears of War Studio

Turn 10 Studios - Forza Motorsport Studio

Playground Games - Forza Horizon Studio


They dont need freedom (they were created for the purposes of a single franchise so...yeah..no). Microsoft has no creativity and literally has the mentality of Activision and EA when it comes to game development. Focus on a team forever on a franchise. This is exactly why Bungie left them. They did not have any plans  to work on Halo forever. If Microsoft owns the studio, they dont have to work on the new IP. They can just keep pumping Halo out until it dies , much like Activision is doing with COD. Ever wonder why people questioned Bungies sanity when they left Microsoft for activision? Its because its like going to the same exact person in terms of operational philosophy.

Sony can allow their devs to pump out new IP's because their devs have. Microsoft has tried and failed since they entered the gaming industry. This is why they keep their good games that they purchased like cards that are held so close to their vest. Without them they are strategically naked.


Awhile back I poked through the 360's end-life library (looking, I believe, from October 2010 after the launch of Fable 3 right through to the pre-Xbox One launch,) aaaand yeah, not hard to see why it accrued its reputation as a shooter box, despite having a fairly diverse lineup in its early years. It wasn't simply a matter of having studios making Halo, Gears of War and Forza, given Sony has its own studios that focus on a single genre or series, but rather (in my opinion) that their attempt to make Kinect a smash hit overshadowed any thought of developing a diverse, in-house lineup. A handful of titles ported from PC- Minecraft, Witcher 2, a Toy Soldiers game, etc- helped even out the first party dip in variety a little, and Undead Studios partnered with Microsoft Game Studios- though perhaps just on a publishing basis- to release State of Decay in June 2013. It probably also saw a breath of fresh air when the Xbox One launched, as at least Titanfall, and possibly other Xbox console exclusives, would have ended up on it. But there was a very noticeable period where, if it didn't require motion controls, and it wasn't from a mega-selling franchise, it proooobably wasn't going to become a thing.

However, even though the Xbox One's library still isn't hefty enough for me to get on board (keeping in mind half the games I was interested in have ended up on PC, and that just makes me wary about waiting to see if the rest do likewise) I am optimistic that they at least won't repeat the same mistakes that contributed to the 360's drought. For one, they're no longer dominant in the only markets they really seem to care about, which should push them to remain as competitive as possible in all aspects instead of only focusing on proven, guaranteed moneymakers for regular games. Even if they do 'retake the US,' it will likely never be to the extent the 360 was on top; at that point, what with word of mouth and the sale effect of 'All My Friends Have One, Might As Well Get It Too,' the console could all but sell itself, with the PS3 always struggling one step behind with its smaller marketshare. In this case, things seem like they'll be far less cut-and-dry for either side in the U.S.

On top of that, they seem to have finally stopped trying to push the Kinect, not just with the inevitable unbundling, but by swinging their exclusive focus back to conventional, controller games rather than Kinect exclusive titles, which during the same period I mentioned earlier, were outnumbering regular Xbox 360 exclusives by a vast margin.

So, yeah! While I do think the 360 started to go down a rather unappealing path, I'm at least seeing signs- particularly with the announcement of less, um, shooterboxery titles like Sea of Thieves- that they're righting the ship. (Lawl, pun.) ^_^



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Rpruett said:
Microsoft and the Xbox brand has one problem in my eyes overall. They lack diverse, original exclusives and they whore out all of their existing exclusives until you end up with rehashes of the same IP numerous times every few years.

This "issue" is inherant of Playstation as well, just with less popular properties.

Rpruett said:
The rest of their games can be played on other platforms (PC and generally Playstation systems) and only when Sony shoots themselves in the foot can they obtain these these types of third party games exclusive.

As long as Sony continues to port all their "exclusive" games to Playstation Now, that's an inherant issue too. Why should I buy a PS4 for Uncharted 4 and Horizon, when I can stream them to the Playstation Now app on my Xbox One or Windows 10 PC?

Rpruett said:

Last generation was essentially :

- Halo
- Gears of War
- Forza
- Fable
- Generic shooter

Rinse wash repeat. One of those four games was their biggest game every single year.

As long as Sony cancels Uncharted 4/The Last of Us 2, Gran Turismo 7, God of War 4 and MLB The Show, you have a point.

Rpruett said:
They don't invest in first party studios, they just throw money at a problem.

Haha. Throwing money at first party studios is investing. That might be why Microsoft has 21 studios to Sonys paltry 13.

Rpruett said:
They don't foster a culture of creativity or art. Something that Sony does do. (See Flower, Journey, Heavy Rain, Little Big Planet etc).

And yet, Microsoft did make Sunset Overdrive (the game Sony tried to prevent Insomniac from making), give the world Minecraft and made Ori and the Blind Forest happen. Sony would never get behind a game like Ori, it's not in their nature.

Rpruett said:
Microsoft --- If they operated more like Sony and fostered development and creativity would easily be the top console. They just can't change because it's how the company is run.

I guess they'll just have to settle for having bigger franchises and still operating in 10 years.



walsufnir said:

Hi guys.

Halo 5? Hell, why did they go 60fps? Yes, it is objectively better for a fps to render at 60fps so from a gameplay point this is absolutely the right direction. But who wants it? People are already moaning about Halo 5 not having splitscreen at all (no matter if they had ever played it, though ;)) or why it has dynamic resolution. Well, design decisions to make the gameplay better but with this they sacrifice what seems way more important to many people: eyecandy.

 

TBH, I think more actual Halo players seem to be a bit pissed at lack of splitscreen than dynamic res. So to the people who matter (i.e. people who might actually buy Halo 5, or more importantly people who might buy XB one to play Halo 5) it seems split screen is a potential deal breaker. And Split screen isn't eyecandy. So at least with your Halo 5 example it's not eyecandy that is most important. Can't really speak to the rest of it, just that this particular point stuck out as being slightly mis-directed re the dynamic res issue.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

LordLichtenstein said:
My biggest "problem" is, that many of their top tier studios don't have any freedom.

343 Industries - Halo Studio

The Coalition - Gears of War Studio

Turn 10 Studios - Forza Motorsport Studio

Playground Games - Forza Horizon Studio

Sony has it's examples. Most notably with GT, but maybe Polyphony loves sim racers and GT so much they don't want to branch out. But still, I think if Poly could bring in a bit of extra talent and release a counter-cyclical kart racer that would be a pretty good move. Maybe they should salvage the key people who worked on MNR and get moving on that idea. I prefer kart racers over all other forms of racer, so yeah, get on it Sony.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

When it comes to graphical prowess, part of me thinks that it has less to do with Microsoft's developers' technical prowess, or what they want to do with their games' graphics, and much more to do with how PlayStation first party developers handle their games' graphics. More specifically, I think a lot of it has to do with how PlayStation first party games have a masterful use of cinematic camera and cinematography in general. I don't think it's that much of a stretch of the imagination that PlayStation developers' strong grasp of cinematography is in part due to the fact that Sony owns a major motion picture production company.

I really think Microsoft (and AAA PC games as well) would be much more graphically impressive if they decided to copy Sony's ability to use cinematography to make certain in-game set pieces look fantastic.



sasquatchmontana said:
Rpruett said:
Microsoft and the Xbox brand has one problem in my eyes overall. They lack diverse, original exclusives and they whore out all of their existing exclusives until you end up with rehashes of the same IP numerous times every few years.

This "issue" is inherant of Playstation as well, just with less popular properties.

 

 

No -- It's not.  I'm sure someone around here can display the level of varied multi-million sellers the Playstation franchise historically has.  Playstation is known for their varied library. Microsoft? Not so much.  Do they have sequels?  Long running titles? Ofcourse,  but they have tons of quality games in a varied genres.  

 


 

Rpruett said:
The rest of their games can be played on other platforms (PC and generally Playstation systems) and only when Sony shoots themselves in the foot can they obtain these these types of third party games exclusive.

As long as Sony continues to port all their "exclusive" games to Playstation Now, that's an inherant issue too. Why should I buy a PS4 for Uncharted 4 and Horizon, when I can stream them to the Playstation Now app on my Xbox One or Windows 10 PC?

 

 

To my knowledge -- There aren't any or certainly not many current gen PS4 games on PS Now.  And you essentially answered your own question --  PS Now still requires a monthly subscription to Sony.  Whatever cost Sony deems valuable enough and whatever platforms Sony desires to put PS Now on will directly control how important it is for the PS brand and for them to establish that entry fee.  

PS Now is not a competitor for their full-fledged hardware yet.

 


 

Rpruett said:

Last generation was essentially :

- Halo
- Gears of War
- Forza
- Fable
- Generic shooter

Rinse wash repeat. One of those four games was their biggest game every single year.

As long as Sony cancels Uncharted 4/The Last of Us 2, Gran Turismo 7, God of War 4 and MLB The Show, you have a point.

 

 

And if these were the only big titles that Sony released -- You'd have a point.   I seem to remember some of the biggest, highest reviewed games of last generation --were brand new IPs.... Little Big Planet  was a brand new IP as was the Last of Us....as was Demon Souls......Microsoft.....Halo (Sequel), Gears of War (Third party new IP....Fable (Sequel)....Forza (Sequel).  Gulp down those repeats.

 


 

Rpruett said:
They don't invest in first party studios, they just throw money at a problem.

Haha. Throwing money at first party studios is investing. That might be why Microsoft has 21 studios to Sonys paltry 13.

 

 

We all know that's a recent development after MS has had it's ass figuratively handed to them since 2008.  It's actually an encouraging sign for MS fans.

 


 

Rpruett said:
They don't foster a culture of creativity or art. Something that Sony does do. (See Flower, Journey, Heavy Rain, Little Big Planet etc).

And yet, Microsoft did make Sunset Overdrive (the game Sony tried to prevent Insomniac from making), give the world Minecraft and made Ori and the Blind Forest happen. Sony would never get behind a game like Ori, it's not in their nature.

 

 

Like I said earlier -- Microsoft is hopefully learning, but this is the first generation they've been doing things like this.  Far too early to say if they've changed stripes yet.   They didn't GIVE the world Minecraft.  They bought Minecraft.   Ori and the Blind Forest is a fantastic game that is absolutely in Sony's wheel house.  Those are the type of games that Sony has consistently made since the days of PS One.    As an MS fan --- You're just so starved  for a game like that, that you think MS is so wonderful for giving you one.  Hopefully, they invest more in games like that.

 


 

Rpruett said:
Microsoft --- If they operated more like Sony and fostered development and creativity would easily be the top console. They just can't change because it's how the company is run.

I guess they'll just have to settle for having bigger franchises and still operating in 10 years.

 

Shrug.  I'm not a shareholder,  the veiled criticism doesn't mean anything.  Microsoft is a large, wealthy company without a soul or any character that creating what essentially amounts to as art, demands.  That is their problem and has always been their problem.  They drop support for their consoles the moment they lose profitability.   They nickel and dime their consumers to better their bottom line. (Xbox Live,  Battery powered controllers, Wifi dongles, Non replaceable HDDs, etc).

Halo was/is a fantastic franchise but it's literally one of the few reasons someone would choose an Xbox over a Sony console at this point.    There's a reason that Microsoft can't obtain true success in the console industry -- if you want to plug you ears and cover your eyes to the reasons why then so be it. But it's not my job to protect your feelings.