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Forums - Politics Discussion - Greece Defaults. What now?

generic-user-1 said:

the euro area has not trade deficit overall, so there will be enough of hard money to buy oil.(the EU overall doesnt look that good because of the lazy brits, but there is no trade deficite atm for the EU)

and yes we choosed to be energie deficit, we d1063ont like holes and burning water.   europe isnt out of coal its just not needed to destroy our natur when others are willing to destroy theirs for cheap.

You should know better than me that 60% of EU's trade balance proficit belongs to Germany.

Sigh, did that a while ago, various countries energy balances (oil > gas > coal > total):

It doesn't have nuclear, but you should understand that in this department it's not rosy as well. I hope that closes it.



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mai said:
generic-user-1 said:

the euro area has not trade deficit overall, so there will be enough of hard money to buy oil.(the EU overall doesnt look that good because of the lazy brits, but there is no trade deficite atm for the EU)

and yes we choosed to be energie deficit, we d1063ont like holes and burning water.   europe isnt out of coal its just not needed to destroy our natur when others are willing to destroy theirs for cheap.

You should know better than me that 60% of EU's trade balance proficit belongs to Germany.

Sigh, did that a while ago, various countries energy balances (oil > gas > coal > total):

It doesn't have nuclear, but you should understand that in this department it's not rosy as well. I hope that closes it.

like i said, the EU choosed to import energie, but that doesnt mean it wouldnt be possible to produce in the EU if importing isnt an option anymore.



generic-user-1 said:

like i said, the EU choosed to import energie, but that doesnt mean it wouldnt be possible to produce in the EU if importing isnt an option anymore.

*banging the head against the wall* well, then choose not to eat, drink, s**t and breath :D might come in handy eventually. And they say Germans are pragmatic people.

 

 

Meanwhile, Barclays: Greece is set to leave the euro this month... -- I'd guess this will mark the time when capitals start running from the EU en masse. Not really hard to figure out where will they go eventually.



mai said:
generic-user-1 said:

like i said, the EU choosed to import energie, but that doesnt mean it wouldnt be possible to produce in the EU if importing isnt an option anymore.

*banging the head against the wall* well, then choose not to eat, drink, s**t and breath :D might come in handy eventually. And they say Germans are pragmatic people.

 

 

Meanwhile, Barclays: Greece is set to leave the euro this month... -- I'd guess this will mark the time when capitals start running from the EU en masse. Not really hard to figure out where will they go eventually.

you shouldnt do that, your poor head...   its not like choosing not to eat, its like choosing not to grow your own food.

and not destroying your nature because you can pay others to destroy theres is very pragmatic..



generic-user-1 said:

and not destroying your nature because you can pay others to destroy theres is very pragmatic..

Pragamatism is when you're weighing up the risks, while you're in denial of the fact that current crisis will inevitably bring a great deal of energy-deficit regions to what UN indentifies as energy poverty if not hunger due to destruction of transportaion routes and decline in energy production, covering this by one fairy tale or another. Not the first time I talk about it with you and every time the explanation is different: first it was renewables, then it's p2g, now it's a "smart plan" and we just "do not want to drill holes in the ground because it's bad for the nature", then "we have coal" (where did the topic of nature suddenly go?). This lack of consistency is rather childish and makes me think if you're actually believe what you say.



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Dulfite said:
sc94597 said:
fatslob-:O said:
sc94597 said:

The rest of Europe, parts of Asia, and the U.S follow within the next 30 years or so. Greece is just an extreme example of where the rest of the world is heading.

You think so ?

Yep. I have no confidence that any of these countries will stop what they are doing: going back and forth on interest rates until their bubbles get bigger and bigger due to malinvestments (directed by said interest rates), bailing out said malinvestments, while they amass trillions of dollars worth of debt which they'll never be able to sustain. There will be a larger recession than the one in 2008, hyperinflation, and higher unemployment everywhere. Furthermore, with the growing economic powers in the second and third worlds global wealth distributions will more often transfer to these other, more stable regions. The cause of this? Cronyism.

You forgot to mention that, after all that you said has occured, people will wants again blame it on President Bush. Meanwhile, the liberals keep spending money.


I don't distinguish between warfare and welfare Keynesians too much. They are both doing the same thing. Bush is not absolved just because Obama did what he had done even more.



sc94597 said:
Dulfite said:

You forgot to mention that, after all that you said has occured, people will wants again blame it on President Bush. Meanwhile, the liberals keep spending money.


I don't distinguish between warfare and welfare Keynesians too much. They are both doing the same thing. Bush is not absolved just because Obama did what he had done even more.


Notice I said the liberals, not just Obama. I'm more making fun of the notion (that is widely accepted by the majority of Earth's population, ignorantly) that the President is the person to blame for current economic tumbles considering a Presiden'ts actions usually don't impact an economy until 6-12 years after the decision they make. People blamed the 08 recession on Bush when, in fact, it had a lot more to do with what was going on in the late 90's than the mid 2000's in my opinion. Not to mention Congress is a lot more to blame than Presidents, but Presidents (particiularly Republican ones) usually get the majority of the blame (due to very liberal media for the most part).



mai said:
generic-user-1 said:

and not destroying your nature because you can pay others to destroy theres is very pragmatic..

Pragamatism is when you're weighing up the risks, while you're in denial of the fact that current crisis will inevitably bring a great deal of energy-deficit regions to what UN indentifies as energy poverty if not hunger due to destruction of transportaion routes and decline in energy production, covering this by one fairy tale or another. Not the first time I talk about it with you and every time the explanation is different: first it was renewables, then it's p2g, now it's a "smart plan" and we just "do not want to drill holes in the ground because it's bad for the nature", then "we have coal" (where did the topic of nature suddenly go?). This lack of consistency is rather childish and makes me think if you're actually believe what you say.


the topic changes a bit everytime... 

1. Present situation:europe is energie deficit at the moment because we dont like to drill holes(or more let giant machines eat great chunks of good soil to get coal out of the ground). buying energie from outside is way cheaper and we dont destroy our nature(smart plan).

2.Resources: thats a choice we made, its not like we dont have enough coal and other fossile fuel in the ground(well regular oil isnt enough there, but unconventionel oil is enough for a long time). there is even enough uran in the ground, but uran mining is realy realy ugly.

3.Future: we are on the way to fix the deficit with green energie and less energie consume. germany has 25% of powerproduction from EEs atm, and its rising fast.  p2g is in the last stages of development, its needed because northern europe will soon have to much energie most of the time because of windenergie.



Dulfite said:
sc94597 said:


I don't distinguish between warfare and welfare Keynesians too much. They are both doing the same thing. Bush is not absolved just because Obama did what he had done even more.


Notice I said the liberals, not just Obama. I'm more making fun of the notion (that is widely accepted by the majority of Earth's population, ignorantly) that the President is the person to blame for current economic tumbles considering a Presiden'ts actions usually don't impact an economy until 6-12 years after the decision they make. People blamed the 08 recession on Bush when, in fact, it had a lot more to do with what was going on in the late 90's than the mid 2000's in my opinion. Not to mention Congress is a lot more to blame than Presidents, but Presidents (particiularly Republican ones) usually get the majority of the blame (due to very liberal media for the most part).

Presidents are responsible for interacting with the federal reserve and appointing federal reserve chairmen. If any organization could be given credit for the economic well-being of the U.S, it is the fed and its role in interest rates and inflation rates. Congress is responsible as well, for having unrealistic budgetary expectations, and for creating the fed in the first place, but usually the executive branch and the federal reserve are the ones working together and making strategies with regards to the economy and trying to persuade congress on unrealistic budgets, when they finally start to sober themselves and consider cuts. 2008 was caused by the excecutive branch and the fed persuading banks, in the 90's, to effectively give out mortgages to everyone they could at historically low interest rates. Eventually this destroyed those banks and the housing market. And then their friends in government bailed them out. Debt and huge military budgets were influenced by Bush's warfare urges, and capitalized upon by "liberal" welfarism. I agree though. No single branch of government or industry is to blame. It is the collusion of all of them in the interest of cronyism, which is to blame. This is one of the very reasons why competition is superior to collusion and cronyism. When everyone is looking into their own self-interest they don't make irrational decisions based on promises or favors from their friends, and special previleges of protections, i.e "too big to fail." 



Well,since I'm Greek I feel like i should give my opinion on the matter.Greece's debt crisis was mishandled by both the Greek government and the EU/IMF.Imposing harsh austerity,with a country losing 25%(!!!) of it's GDP and having unemployment grow to 27% doesn't get your money back,it just creates a slave country with no bright future ahead.Greece,at the moment,isn't running on deficit,it actually has a surplus,a first in 20 years.So,i think that the ESM should buy Greece's debt from ECB and IMF,prolong it from 30years to 60years,and freeze it's repayment for 5 years,so as to let Greece get back it's lost GDP and have surpluses invested in the economy.Meanwhile,in those 5 years Greece won't be given more loans,as it will live on its own money.That could actually,put an end to an endless cycle of loans and create the right conditions for Greece to repay the debt in time.