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Forums - Politics Discussion - Greece Defaults. What now?

routsounmanman said:
DeusXmachina said:

Trust me, if we leave the eurozone the last thing i'll do is cry.


Trust me, we will. Short-term the effects will be VERY painful. Still better than this mess, though.

I'm sure a lot of people will hate it if we leave the eurozone and that the situation will be bad for a long time but i believe we will eventually recover.



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Qwark said:
DeusXmachina said:

Trust me, if we leave the eurozone the last thing i'll do is cry.

W'll see I think the situation for the country is hopeless in any way with the Euro it's like taking a chemo cure to cure the internal corruption/tumors with the worst side effects imaginable. Without the Euro going back to the original drahgmar would also be a dissaster for your tourism sector, but on the bright side we could ask ourselfes how much further can the country sink anyway and Greece could get Russian support.


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.



Qwark said:
MikeRox said:


Sadly this is where Greece's problems kick in. The logical thing, would be to reduce Greece's debt, and put the country on a sustainable path back to prosperity. However, Portugal and Ireland took their medicine without such concessions. More so though, if Greece is allowed haircuts on it's debts, Spain and Italy etc will start to demand the same.

There is also the fallout in Germany where the population seem to be incredibly reluctant to any kind of support for Greece. I suspect Angela Merkel would be more forgiving in terms, were it not such a vote loser in Germany.

Let's not forget UK which is probably even more reluctant against another hopeless investment, bringing the BRexit closer. Even if you erase all Greece it debts it's economic system and taxation system are corrupt to the core. The path back to prospeirity is the EU parlement completely taking completely over for 2 years and making radical changes aka transforming it in a northern European country, I doubt Greece is wanting that.

fuck the brits, the EU  is better of without them. they dont pay their fair share, they block banking regulations and they try to sell total crap  as food.



generic-user-1 said:
Qwark said:
MikeRox said:


Sadly this is where Greece's problems kick in. The logical thing, would be to reduce Greece's debt, and put the country on a sustainable path back to prosperity. However, Portugal and Ireland took their medicine without such concessions. More so though, if Greece is allowed haircuts on it's debts, Spain and Italy etc will start to demand the same.

There is also the fallout in Germany where the population seem to be incredibly reluctant to any kind of support for Greece. I suspect Angela Merkel would be more forgiving in terms, were it not such a vote loser in Germany.

Let's not forget UK which is probably even more reluctant against another hopeless investment, bringing the BRexit closer. Even if you erase all Greece it debts it's economic system and taxation system are corrupt to the core. The path back to prospeirity is the EU parlement completely taking completely over for 2 years and making radical changes aka transforming it in a northern European country, I doubt Greece is wanting that.

fuck the brits, the EU  is better of without them. they dont pay their fair share, they block banking regulations and they try to sell total crap  as food.


It's also a very powerful and more important growing economy. It creatied more Jobs the past dor years than any other EU country. A Brexit would hurt EU hard and probably would cause a new recession. The Brits have certain membership trades like lower subscription costs but they pay each year it's not like they get money like other countries. Last year they had to pay 2 billion euro's extra a long with NL for BS reasons the latter had to pay 1bilion euro.

 

The British are way more important and we are better of with them as for Greece I am starting to doubt that. By the way we should thank the Brits for  not wanting Eurobanking or European constitution.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

routsounmanman said:
Qwark said:

W'll see I think the situation for the country is hopeless in any way with the Euro it's like taking a chemo cure to cure the internal corruption/tumors with the worst side effects imaginable. Without the Euro going back to the original drahgmar would also be a dissaster for your tourism sector, but on the bright side we could ask ourselfes how much further can the country sink anyway and Greece could get Russian support.


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


Where did I say raising taxes is the sollution I say either scenario is doomed to fail. Greece can't survive on it's own or Rusia really wants a new sovjet. And the EU is incompetent of saving them it's like giving money to Africa at this stage you could better burnt it to keep a powerplant running. Without a complete take over by a Northern European coalition for 2 years which is impossible the corruption and taxevation have caused a vicious circle leading to damnation for Greece almost inevitably.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Qwark said:
generic-user-1 said:
Qwark said:
MikeRox said:


Sadly this is where Greece's problems kick in. The logical thing, would be to reduce Greece's debt, and put the country on a sustainable path back to prosperity. However, Portugal and Ireland took their medicine without such concessions. More so though, if Greece is allowed haircuts on it's debts, Spain and Italy etc will start to demand the same.

There is also the fallout in Germany where the population seem to be incredibly reluctant to any kind of support for Greece. I suspect Angela Merkel would be more forgiving in terms, were it not such a vote loser in Germany.

Let's not forget UK which is probably even more reluctant against another hopeless investment, bringing the BRexit closer. Even if you erase all Greece it debts it's economic system and taxation system are corrupt to the core. The path back to prospeirity is the EU parlement completely taking completely over for 2 years and making radical changes aka transforming it in a northern European country, I doubt Greece is wanting that.

fuck the brits, the EU  is better of without them. they dont pay their fair share, they block banking regulations and they try to sell total crap  as food.

The British are way more important and we are better of with them as for Greece I am starting to doubt that. By the way we should thank the Brits for  not wanting Eurobanking or European constitution.

While Greece may not be as important or powerful as Britain, I think you're underestimating this:

1) It's not just about economy. Notice our position in the map? Our military / navy strength? Our relationship with Arabic / Slavic countries and Russia? 

2) It would create a precedence a member leaving the common currency. Try to assure the markets that Portugal won't be next.

EU has much more to lose that 300 billion debt and 200 billion GDP.



Qwark said:
generic-user-1 said:
Qwark said:
MikeRox said:


Sadly this is where Greece's problems kick in. The logical thing, would be to reduce Greece's debt, and put the country on a sustainable path back to prosperity. However, Portugal and Ireland took their medicine without such concessions. More so though, if Greece is allowed haircuts on it's debts, Spain and Italy etc will start to demand the same.

There is also the fallout in Germany where the population seem to be incredibly reluctant to any kind of support for Greece. I suspect Angela Merkel would be more forgiving in terms, were it not such a vote loser in Germany.

Let's not forget UK which is probably even more reluctant against another hopeless investment, bringing the BRexit closer. Even if you erase all Greece it debts it's economic system and taxation system are corrupt to the core. The path back to prospeirity is the EU parlement completely taking completely over for 2 years and making radical changes aka transforming it in a northern European country, I doubt Greece is wanting that.

fuck the brits, the EU  is better of without them. they dont pay their fair share, they block banking regulations and they try to sell total crap  as food.


It's also a very powerful and more important growing economy. It creatied more Jobs the past dor years than any other EU country. A Brexit would hurt EU hard and probably would cause a new recession. The Brits have certain membership trades like lower subscription costs but they pay each year it's not like they get money like other countries. Last year they had to pay 2 billion euro's extra a long with NL for BS reasons the latter had to pay 1bilion euro.

 

The British are way more important and we are better of with them as for Greece I am starting to doubt that. By the way we should thank the Brits for  not wanting Eurobanking or European constitution.

the UK economy isnt growing, its bubbleing. the whole economy is build on sand, one banking crash and everything is gone.

and they have a hughe trade and budget deficit.



routsounmanman said:
Qwark said:

The British are way more important and we are better of with them as for Greece I am starting to doubt that. By the way we should thank the Brits for  not wanting Eurobanking or European constitution.

While Greece may not be as important or powerful as Britain, I think you're underestimating this:

1) It's not just about economy. Notice our position in the map? Our military / navy strength? Our relationship with Arabic / Slavic countries and Russia? 

2) It would create a precedence a member leaving the common currency. Try to assure the markets that Portugal won't be next.

EU has much more to lose that 300 billion debt and 200 billion GDP.


On your frist point the NAVO is bigger than Europe unless you want US, Canada, Japan, South Korea and Turkey on your bad side choosing Arab or Rusia isn't smart.

 

On your second point Portugal, Spain etc  aren't even near Greece in therms of corruption, debts etc. So I don't think there will be an enormous financial hit for Europe. Since you have to make an effort to get kicked out of EU.

 

So I think EU can cut off Greece without major problems.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

DeusXmachina said:

I'm sure a lot of people will hate it if we leave the eurozone and that the situation will be bad for a long time but i believe we will eventually recover.


Of course you are going to eventually recover. What's the alternative? The question isn't whether or not you will recover, it's how bad will the long term effects of this defaulting will be. I'm very interested to find out.



Qwark said:
routsounmanman said:

While Greece may not be as important or powerful as Britain, I think you're underestimating this:

1) It's not just about economy. Notice our position in the map? Our military / navy strength? Our relationship with Arabic / Slavic countries and Russia? 

2) It would create a precedence a member leaving the common currency. Try to assure the markets that Portugal won't be next.

EU has much more to lose that 300 billion debt and 200 billion GDP.


On your frist point the NAVO is bigger than Europe unless you want US, Canada, Japan, South Korea and Turkey on your bad side choosing Arab or Rusia isn't smart.

 

On your second point Portugal, Spain etc  aren't even near Greece in therms of corruption, debts etc. So I don't think there will be an enormous financial hit for Europe. Since you have to make an effort to get kicked out of EU.

 

So I think EU can cut off Greece without major problems.

1) You misunderstood me; I didn't mean us flocking to Russia / Arabic countries etc. I mean that we're the sole link to diplomacy with most of these countries. Essentially the only EU country that has any good relations with that part of the world.

2) I respect your opinion on this, but I don't agree. It's easy and convenient to place blame on Greece, and cover for the rest. Even Italy has striking similarities to Greece (Debt too, 130% of GDP, just where we started in 2009).