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Let America fix it. Turn it into our new vacation land. Aww yeah, USA.

Just have the rest of the EU take over for a bit. I'm sure they cancan't do any worse than the Greek government did.



Ask stefl1504 for a sig, even if you don't need one.

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Alkibiádēs said:
Esiar said:
I know barely anything about Greece. It just reminds me of Greek, which I know is the language most of the New Testament was written in. And I want to learn the languages because it interests me. That's it.

The New Testament is written in very poor koinè, most likely because it was their second language. A lot of the sentences come across as semitic which suggests that they spoke Aramaic in their daily life.

From a literary point of view the New Testament is garbage and not worth reading. Read the Illiad instead, it's in classical Attic with a dactylic hexameter.


The NT was written in the most common form at the time. It was not intended to be a literarry classic, but rather something as many people as possible could understand.

Also, at the time the NT was written the "Classic" greek was pretty much dead and only used in academic circles. It would be like comparing Pilgrims Progress with Harry Potter (similar time gap).   Or comparing Dante with modern Italian literatue.



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

AbbathTheGrim said:

I just wanted to come here and say that I wish Greece a swift recovery and that no matter what happens I will always thank Greece for giving us democracy, western philosophy, advances in science and mathematics, culture, etc. but above everything Septicflesh, Rotting Christ, and Astarte.

The Western world didn't get democracy from Greece (though the Greeks certainly like to think so, well accept me).

Ancient Greece had what we called a direct democracy in certain polis (city-states), the most famous example obviously being Athens. That means that every citizen could vote directly on legislation and executive bills. To vote one had to be an adult male citizen which means women, foreigners, slaves and children were not allowed to vote (i.e. the majority). Approximately 1100 citizens held office each year. Most of them were chosen by lot (i.e. random). A much smaller (and prestigious) group were elected, around a 100 citizens or so. Neither was compulsory, citizens had to nominate themselves for both selection methods. Those that were chosen by lot usually had little expertise in the office they were working in... Also the Athenians ruled their empire with an iron fist. At least it has that in common with Western democracies (colonization).

Our modern democracy has much more in common with German tribalism. So please thank the Germanic people for our democracy. As for culture, a lot of the Greek culture was influenced by the Middle-East and Egypt. Astarte, the example you gave, was a Phoenician goddess for example... As for the actual music, thanks for raping my ears (can't argue about tastes though).

You know what the biggest irony of them all is? Us Greeks idealize our once glorious past and at the same deny the LGBT community the rights it deserves. How ignorant can you get?

They say Alexander the Great... I say Alexander the Gay. It's hilarious how a lot of Greeks still live in denial despite the evidence being so outspoken. The ancient Greeks considered a sexual relationship between two males to be ranked higher than a sexual relationship between a man and a woman. Of course gay marriage was not allowed in ancient Greece, but that's because marriage was intended to create offspring and for the aristocracy also to gain political benefit. Sex outside of the marriage was quite common, at least for the male population.



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

The problem with Greece is that EU dediced to give them the Euro while they weren't "worthy" to get it. Don't get me wrong, this is not saying the Greece population is at fault. It's the governments and the EU itself that is to blame here. And the common people have to pay the price for this debacle. If all facts were known before no one with a clear mind would have let the Greece in and especially if it was known how the money went in Greece it wouldn't have been a surprising outcome to say that Greece is spending way more money than they get. Greece' government is to blame here because they should've known that this direction will fail eventually.



tokilamockingbrd said:
Alkibiádēs said:
Esiar said:
I know barely anything about Greece. It just reminds me of Greek, which I know is the language most of the New Testament was written in. And I want to learn the languages because it interests me. That's it.

The New Testament is written in very poor koinè, most likely because it was their second language. A lot of the sentences come across as semitic which suggests that they spoke Aramaic in their daily life.

From a literary point of view the New Testament is garbage and not worth reading. Read the Illiad instead, it's in classical Attic with a dactylic hexameter.


The NT was written in the most common form at the time. It was not intended to be a literarry classic, but rather something as many people as possible could understand.

Also, at the time the NT was written the "Classic" greek was pretty much dead and only used in academic circles. It would be like comparing Pilgrims Progress with Harry Potter (similar time gap).   Or comparing Dante with modern Italian literatue.

It was written by mostly untalented people, that's all there's to it. You can make all the excuses you want. During antiquity pretty much EVERY Greek knew the stories of the Illiad and Oddysey (they had a long oral tradition before these stories were written down by "Homeros"). There were people that could recite these entire works from memory. Despite being literary masterpieces they were easily accesible. The ancient Greeks knew the content of the Illiad and Oddysey better than modern people know the New Testament. Because these stories stem from a long oral tradition they were easy to remember: after all people create tricks to remember things more easily (rhyming for example). The New Testament isn't easy or fun to read, it's a confusing mess really. The Illiad reads like a charm in its original form. With translations you have to be careful, but there are good ones out there.

Also, I used the Illiad and Oddysey as an example, there are also a lot of great works written in koinè Greek as well. Oh and the Illiad and Oddysey were still the most famous literary works during the first and second century AD (when the New Testament was written down). So there goes your time gap...

As for Dante, you do realize modern Italian is based on the Florentine dialect in part thanks to his great work? I still know the opening sentence by heart: Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita mi ritrovai per una selva oscura che la diritta via era smarrita.

"In the middle of my life I found myself in a dark forest, for I had lost the right path."



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

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walsufnir said:
The problem with Greece is that EU dediced to give them the Euro while they weren't "worthy" to get it. Don't get me wrong, this is not saying the Greece population is at fault. It's the governments and the EU itself that is to blame here. And the common people have to pay the price for this debacle. If all facts were known before no one with a clear mind would have let the Greece in and especially if it was known how the money went in Greece it wouldn't have been a surprising outcome to say that Greece is spending way more money than they get. Greece' government is to blame here because they should've known that this direction will fail eventually.

So what about Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Denmark or Ireland? Were they "worthy"?

UPD: may exclude Denmark from the list for obvious reasons, though that doesn't change much here.



mai said:
walsufnir said:
The problem with Greece is that EU dediced to give them the Euro while they weren't "worthy" to get it. Don't get me wrong, this is not saying the Greece population is at fault. It's the governments and the EU itself that is to blame here. And the common people have to pay the price for this debacle. If all facts were known before no one with a clear mind would have let the Greece in and especially if it was known how the money went in Greece it wouldn't have been a surprising outcome to say that Greece is spending way more money than they get. Greece' government is to blame here because they should've known that this direction will fail eventually.

So what about Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Denmark or Ireland? Were they "worthy"?

Northern Italy, Pais Vasco and Catalunya? Sure. :p



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

mai said:
walsufnir said:
The problem with Greece is that EU dediced to give them the Euro while they weren't "worthy" to get it. Don't get me wrong, this is not saying the Greece population is at fault. It's the governments and the EU itself that is to blame here. And the common people have to pay the price for this debacle. If all facts were known before no one with a clear mind would have let the Greece in and especially if it was known how the money went in Greece it wouldn't have been a surprising outcome to say that Greece is spending way more money than they get. Greece' government is to blame here because they should've known that this direction will fail eventually.

So what about Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Denmark or Ireland? Were they "worthy"?


That's a good question but I am not to judge and I am not the person who had the data to judge it. And I am not the person who made up the criteria. Thing is, the whole Euro topic is something that shows how democracy works (at least in Germany): Every 4 years you are allowed to elect people who dictate you what will happen.

There is a former German politician who said that is unfair to judge a government after election by their pre-election promises... this tells you what attitude they have towards the people they want them to vote.

Germany got the Euro because the government wanted it. No matter which party. Why weren't we able to vote for it? Because they knew we wouldn't want it. UK is a perfect example of this. It is absolutely ridiculous how we think that the world should function (see arabic spring) but democracy is only good for them if the common people do exactly what they want.

Do you remember when Ireland was to join EU? How many times did they do an election? "Let's vote until we get what we want".



walsufnir said:
mai said:

So what about Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Denmark or Ireland? Were they "worthy"?


That's a good question but I am not to judge and I am not the person who had the data to judge it. And I am not the person who made up the criteria. Thing is, the whole Euro topic is something that shows how democracy works (at least in Germany): Every 4 years you are allowed to elect people who dictate you what will happen.

There is a former German politician who said that is unfair to judge a government after election by their pre-election promises... this tells you what attitude they have towards the people they want them to vote.

Germany got the Euro because the government wanted it. No matter which party. Why weren't we able to vote for it? Because they knew we wouldn't want it. UK is a perfect example of this. It is absolutely ridiculous how we think that the world should function (see arabic spring) but democracy is only good for them if the common people do exactly what they want.

Do you remember when Ireland was to join EU? How many times did they do an election? "Let's vote until we get what we waYnt".

You're suggesting a direct democracy, like in Ancient Greece, but that's impossible for big nation states like Germany. It would run like a train wreck. It barely worked in Ancient Greece, let alone in a country of 60 million people. Athens had what? 250.000 people?

You know the majority isn't always right, in fact they rarely are. The country should be run by people who have the expertise and knowledge in such things, the masses don't possess that knowledge. How could they?



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

Alkibiádēs said:
walsufnir said:
mai said:

So what about Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Denmark or Ireland? Were they "worthy"?


That's a good question but I am not to judge and I am not the person who had the data to judge it. And I am not the person who made up the criteria. Thing is, the whole Euro topic is something that shows how democracy works (at least in Germany): Every 4 years you are allowed to elect people who dictate you what will happen.

There is a former German politician who said that is unfair to judge a government after election by their pre-election promises... this tells you what attitude they have towards the people they want them to vote.

Germany got the Euro because the government wanted it. No matter which party. Why weren't we able to vote for it? Because they knew we wouldn't want it. UK is a perfect example of this. It is absolutely ridiculous how we think that the world should function (see arabic spring) but democracy is only good for them if the common people do exactly what they want.

Do you remember when Ireland was to join EU? How many times did they do an election? "Let's vote until we get what we waYnt".

You're suggesting a direct democracy, like in Ancient Greece, but that's impossible for big nation states like Germany. It would run like a train wreck. It barely worked in Ancient Greece, let alone in a country of 60 million people. Athens had what? 250.000 people?

You know the majority isn't always right, in fact they rarely are. The country should be run by people who have the expertise and knowledge in such things, the masses don't possess that knowledge. How could they?


But do they? After what we know now about Greece and Euro, this point just can't be completely true. What "knowledge" do these people have? Our person in charge for defense, Ursula von der Leyen, was responsible for family ministry. She is totally exchangable. And she is only one example.

But to the other point: I don't want votes for every single fart out there, definitely not. But changing a currency is something so big that you have to let the common people vote for or against. The people in charge didn't evidently not have enough expertise and knowledge for the Euro.