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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Gaming needs better Writers. or at least adapt novels more.

HoloDust said:
TES father of W/CRPG? Oh dear. Anyway, TES games have always been more about exploration than story, nothing has really changed there in last 20 years, except they are worse RPGs then they were back in days.

Honestly, I'm hoping Bethesda will not try to go with these trend of cheap and prosaic 'emotional' Hollywood-ish writing that is so prevalent in industry now, and just stay at their usual average to bad writing.


I know they are not,  but that is what I consider them. TES being the father and Wizardry is the grandfather. There is Ultima too and Wasteland.  But TES was the one to create a massive lore behind it. 



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starcraft said:
I agree that the intricacies of character development are better in the Witcher 3 than in Inquisition.

Conversely, I would say that Mass Effect did this (and other story concerns) better than the Witcher 3 did. Indicating Bioware has this capability, but just missed the mark (a little bit, Inquisition was mostly incredible) with Inquisition.


I feel like bioware are a developer that can't do sequels right.  The original mass effect felt very engaging,  it made you feel like you're exploring this galaxy and you keep meeting new characters and was full of surprises. 

 

Then mass effect into the "Save the galaxy our hero!" cliché and it became a scifi action shooter with more places to bomb and more aliens to kill than places to explore and aliens to meet. I never liked the characters that were introduced in ME 2, they felt "badass" rather than human. 


Same for dragon age, the first one felt like you're in the middle of this world and you create your own path.  The second is again you're the hero and you have to save the world

 



I agree. Most games have terrible to mediocre writing. I think the problem is more that most gamers and developers get their reading experience from other video games.

And they think that's good writing.



spemanig said:
I agree. Most games have terrible to mediocre writing. I think the problem is more that most gamers and developers get their reading experience from other video games.

And they think that's good writing.


Exactly, that's why I think adapting novels is a great thing. Imagine a game based on Jules Verne novels. And for crying out loud do not add a "twist" to it and make a shooter or zombie survival horror based as a "modern take" on the stories.. 



PullusPardus said:

Exactly, that's why I think adapting novels is a great thing. Imagine a game based on Jules Verne novels. And for crying out loud do not add a "twist" to it and make a shooter or zombie survival horror based as a "modern take" on the stories.. 


I don't think that's a good idea. Games can't even adapt films right yet. Adapting novels would be far more difficult since pacing is completely different and has to include gameplay. Since games haven't matured to a point where gameplay and story telling is one and the same yet, the contrast between the two would be jarring and wouldn't work.

Instread, what should happen is that novelists should start writing for video games. The gameplay would be sculpted to fit the scenario of the story, as opposed to how it is now where it's story cutscene, than gameplay, than story cutscene, than the same gameplay even though the plot has progressed, etc.



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There are a few exceptions though. Rockstar games do a great job for their games (RDR) and Halo has probably the best universe setting and background story.

I agree that story driven games are rare these days. I am hoping for Quantum Break to change that.
That is definitely something the games need to improve.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

PullusPardus said:
HoloDust said:
TES father of W/CRPG? Oh dear. Anyway, TES games have always been more about exploration than story, nothing has really changed there in last 20 years, except they are worse RPGs then they were back in days.

Honestly, I'm hoping Bethesda will not try to go with these trend of cheap and prosaic 'emotional' Hollywood-ish writing that is so prevalent in industry now, and just stay at their usual average to bad writing.


I know they are not,  but that is what I consider them. TES being the father and Wizardry is the grandfather. There is Ultima too and Wasteland.  But TES was the one to create a massive lore behind it. 

Yes, Ultima and Wizardry, more or less, are what started it all (not sure how many people know this, it was Wizardry that influenced the most Japanese devs), but TES was just another IP, not even very popular. At the time Might & Magic was the place to go to for openish world games, though it had party turn-based combat.

When TES started to be a bit more popular (with Morrowind) it did bring some more non-RPG crowd in, but cRPGs where more than well established genre with already 2 golden ages (been there, witnessed it). What is true however is that they've brought WRPGs to mainstream audience on consoles, but that trully happened only recently with Skyrim.

I can understand that you like TES, but among people who've been playing c/W/RPGs for decades, TES is actually not ranked that high these days, specially after Skyrim.



PullusPardus said:
HoloDust said:
TES father of W/CRPG? Oh dear. Anyway, TES games have always been more about exploration than story, nothing has really changed there in last 20 years, except they are worse RPGs then they were back in days.

Honestly, I'm hoping Bethesda will not try to go with these trend of cheap and prosaic 'emotional' Hollywood-ish writing that is so prevalent in industry now, and just stay at their usual average to bad writing.


I know they are not,  but that is what I consider them. TES being the father and Wizardry is the grandfather. There is Ultima too and Wasteland.  But TES was the one to create a massive lore behind it. 

wasteland spawned the fallout series, maybe the rpg with the most iconic world.



PullusPardus said:

Not a fan of their writing at all, Uncharted is very much wannabe hollywood movie. But you why didn't mention fire emblem ?

To be honest I feel different about Naughty Dog. I don't see them as being like a "Hollywood" movie. A movie yes, but one that is unconstrained by decisions made by Hollywood executives to make sure that movie will sell and is worth the investment. Naughty Dog sets a new bar in story telling because they have no boundaries and can use their well thought out stories and characters to any extent they wish. This is also why they are unbelievably consistent with their winning stream of story, gameplay, and development. I will admit that while Uncharted 3 was great, the story had a few holes unlike Uncharted 1 and 2.

Actually Fire Emblem was one of the games I had in mind when I said a "ton" of other games. I was going to list a dozen or so that had phenomenal storylines but I felt a little confined to do so because a lot of people have different opinions and seem to be somewhat attacking each other on it. Unfortunately a lot of gamers, not necessarily here on VGcharts (ok some) don't comprehend the plots of games very well and I do not mean offense to this. One example of this is Metal Gear Solid which I feel is one of if not the best plot in gaming. It was the game that started the path for gaming to take a serious turn into deeper and more complex plots. MGS leaves no stone unturned and answers all of the questions and all dots are connected in the 4th entry. Which made it somewhat unenjoyable to newcomers. Phantom Pain will address the one question at the end of 4 which is regarding Ocelot as well as how (HUGE spoiler warning) Big Boss becomes a major villain.

Some people think Halo has a fantastic story and characters but it is overly simplistic and generic. I am a huge Halo fan and I understand that Bungie ALWAYS focuses on gameplay first and the story is one of their last priorities. I also know that the games went off track with each entry and left planned plots out (Bungie has a bad habit of this and Destiny was another recent victim). Halo 3 was completely rewritten and removed MAJOR plot elements such as Gravemind, Arbiter, and from my understanding it did not kill of Miranda or Johnson as well as a different purpose for 343 Guilty spark and more. Apparently it set up a huge cliff-hanger for a very different Halo 4. Anyways this is probably not even a relevant or important point! XD

I think some of the best plots of gaming not only include the 3 as above but also games like "Tales of Symphonia" to the lesser known "Advent Rising". Both of those are mind-blowing beyond belief. Mass Effect is another big one and it had controversial debates thanks to the ending, which by the way was fantastic. It kept people talking for years with various theories and therefore Bioware scored the gold! As much as I like the indoctrination theory, I am sure that isn't what actually happened. I actually think I know what happened and unfortunately it is something very few gamers caught on to. It was something that was actually consistent with the rest of the game and not random, seems like only the hardcore fans "got it" ;) Also I will admit that I have NOT played the Dragon Age games so I cannot comment on why you think it's a bad story. I have heard otherwise but I again cannot comment because I have ZERO knowledge on Dragon Age and you may very well be correct on this from my perspective had I played the game. I just wanted to throw the ball on that as I have mentioned Mass Effect, which is phenomenal in terms of character development, story, and solid plot twists. Another great series is the Assassin's Creed games, unfortunately the writing got sloppy and the plot fell off track after the trilogy ended. Rouge did have a great story imo. Another good one is the Resident Evil series! Yes it has some corny lines and a lot of that is due to the fact that the translators for those games are probably the worst in the industry. The journals and notes in the game seem like they are written by amateurs in the english games but read like a mature novel in the Japanese version. The game has such a rich lore that lingers in the background and requires reading notes hidden in the games to fully understand what is really going on and the motivations of many of the major characters. It is also fairly complex and often requires playing all the games to get the "full picture" of what is really going on. Revelations 2 was directed to the hardcore fans to the point that it was almost unplayable for anyone who is not a "fan" or well versed in the franchise. No, the villain was NOT new and fabricated as an excuse but was actually mentioned in past games and this made the hardcore fans so excited that it brought many fans who gave up on the series back into the fold. It also sets up the future games and brings a villain who literally feeds off the fear and despair of others and is capable of returning the series back to it's roots as a survival horror. RE7 may very well (another major spoiler warning) take place in Natalia's head which in turn may very well be a solo adventure with no guns. A flashlight, compassion (love), and will (I know it might sound confusing to some) to keep the horrors at bay from eternal and internal torment.

Many games have a totally different way of portraying stories. Some games are very direct and simple like Halo, Gears of War, and God of War. Some are complex and require a lot of attention to details such as Metal Gear Solid, Mass effect, The Last of Us, and Tales of Symphonia. Some have very deep background lore that requires a very deep look into the games yet contain rich and complex characters/story such as Resident Evil, Metroid, Zelda, and Warcraft. Some are deep but more accessible/comprehensible to those who want to kick back and just enjoy an incredible yet rich story such as Uncharted, The Order of 1886, Advent Rising, Heavenly Sword, and Fire Emblem. In the end there are tons of great ways for video games to perceive stories. Personally I myself prefer the games that require a lot of detail and complexity while someone else may enjoy a simpler story that is more appealing to their tastes.




PullusPardus said:

 

Western RPGs try too hard to be "Epic" and "Huge" 


That's why I love Atelier