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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Miyamoto Expains Why Wii U has Failed

SJReiter said:

So Miyamoto recently did a huge interview with NPR. One of the questions was about if the Wii U's price was the reason it hasn't sold well. Here's his response:

"So I don’t think it’s just price, because if the system is appealing enough, people will buy it even if the price is a little bit high. I think with Wii U, our challenge was that perhaps people didn’t understand the system. But also I think that we had a system that’s very unique — and, particularly with video game systems, typically it takes the game system a while to boot up. And we thought that with a tablet-type functionality connected to the system, you could have the rapid boot-up of tablet-type functionality, you could have the convenience of having that touch control with you there on the couch while you’re playing on a device that’s connected to the TV, and it would be a very unique system that could introduce some unique styles of play.

I think unfortunately what ended up happening was that tablets themselves appeared in the marketplace and evolved very, very rapidly, and unfortunately the Wii U system launched at a time where the uniqueness of those features were perhaps not as strong as they were when we had first begun developing them. So what I think is unique about Nintendo is we’re constantly trying to do unique and different things. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they’re not as big of a hit as we would like to hope. After Wii U, we’re hoping that next time it will be a very big hit."

 

Really interesting stuff if you ask me. Basically he confirmed that the GamePad did not appeal to anyone because tablets evolved so much from 2010-2012. I'm actually impressed that he gave such a blunt answer and didn't just give usual PR nonsense. What do you guys think of this answer?

So, here' what I get from this statement:

1) They're done with tablet controllers and won't have a Gamepad as the primary controller for their next system.

2) They realized people didn't see the appeal of the gamepad. This could be good, if Nintendo gets that people just didn't like it. Or it could be bad if they think "costumers are just too stupid to get our ideas".

3) He thinks a high price is ok. This is actually bad, because Nintendo systems have never been high tech machines and historically have been sold at a low price. You'd think they learned from the 3DS and Wii U launches, when people thought the consoles were too pricey.

4) Nintendo (finally?!) acknowledges the importance of technology. Their system didn't fail because its "unique idea" wasn't understood by the market. It failed because their technology wasn't good enough to compete. (I'm not talking about system specs!)

5) Their next console will have a unique feature, too. Depending on what they've learned from this generation this could be either very good or very bad. The next 12 months will be very interesting! 



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RolStoppable said:
UncleScrooge said:

So, here' what I get from this statement:

1) They're done with tablet controllers and won't have a Gamepad as the primary controller for their next system.

2) They realized people didn't see the appeal of the gamepad. This could be good, if Nintendo gets that people just didn't like it. Or it could be bad if they think "costumers are just too stupid to get our ideas".

3) He thinks a high price is ok. This is actually bad, because Nintendo systems have never been high tech machines and historically have been sold at a low price. You'd think they learned from the 3DS and Wii U launches, when people thought the consoles were too pricey.

4) Nintendo (finally?!) acknowledges the importance of technology. Their system didn't fail because its "unique idea" wasn't understood by the market. It failed because their technology wasn't good enough to compete. (I'm not talking about system specs!)

5) Their next console will have a unique feature, too. Depending on what they've learned from this generation this could be either very good or very bad. The next 12 months will be very interesting! 

1) That should hold true, yes.

2) Indeed, this can cut both ways. Miyamoto is a proven man of denial as he truly believed that the GC failed because of marketing. But given how much of a failure the Wii U is, at least for the next generation Nintendo will adopt a mindset that they have to make products that people want to buy instead of making the products that their developers want to make.

3) I don't agree with that. This is more of a concession than anything else that it really isn't just the price that was the Wii U's problem.

4) This is similar to Miyamoto's GC denial that the GC failed to gain traction because the PS2 was too big of an obstacle to overcome due to its headstart. It's trying to shift the blame somewhere else. You need to look at the part of the quote where Miyamoto talks about boot up times of video game consoles. He says that the Gamepad was supposed to be a solution to long boot up times, yet before the Wii U there wasn't a single Nintendo system that had such a problem. They all were ready to go quickly.

5) It should mean that the next console won't use a dual analog controller as its standard input. With the Gamepad, they tried to make dual analog controllers look fun, but that obviously didn't work. A key point for the next console should be once again the design of a controller that doesn't suggest "sit down for 30 minutes just to learn the controls". Of course, there's nothing that stops Nintendo from selling a dual analog controller separately or packing one in with the console as a secondary option.

In the end though, it's Miyamoto. He isn't a good businessman. In a previous interview he even openly stated that he isn't interested in doing what's good for business if it's boring. What Iwata says is of much higher importance when it concerns the future of Nintendo.

While the last sentence you stated is true (and somewhat funny, Miyamoto is kinda of like a real life Willy Wonka ... you wouldn't neccessarily want him running the Chocolate Factory as a business) ... the thing that worries me about it is I wonder how much control Iwata really has. 

Japanese business structure is highly hierarcial, Iwata likely needs Miyamoto's support within the board of directors, if he doesn't have it, then a "coup" against him could probably arise fairly quickly. I mean Iwata is just a guy in a job title, Miyamoto likely carries a lot of loyalty with other Nintendo staffers, especially the old gaurd. 

I personally still feel (even though it's just a hunch) that Nintendo opting to ditch CD-ROM, a decision that would basically hand Sony control of the console market, was largely because of Miyamoto's own personal distaste for loading times. That decision cost Nintendo dearly and in a way has kind of led them right to the path they find themselves at today. That never should have happened. I don't think Yamauchi would've made that decision without undue influence from Miyamoto. 



HandofPrometheus said:

Another reason was the lack of interesting games to appeal to non nintendo fans. Nintendo just keep releasing mario crap that non nintendo fans dont care about his games release somethin new and breathtaking. A good example of this was splatoon, bayonetta 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles X which surprisingly did good in catching people attention.


To degree this true but Nintendo did publish the upgraded port of Ninja Gaiden 3 with Wii U. Their biggest problem was that they didn't ADVERTISE it and some the other 3rd party games at launch. Imagine instead of seeing a lame neon Hollywood squares commercial with families, you saw a commercial focused on ZombiU. Or one that showcased Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's edge as a Wii U exclusive (which would have been true at the time) or some of the other 3rd party ports they had at the time.

 

Nintendo had games lined up for the traditional gamer but they failed to market them and thus the games failed to move units and now the perceptions are that no one cares. It isn't all on Nintendo in terms of other 3rd party publishers but in cases were Nintendo could help they should.



NoirSon said:
HandofPrometheus said:

Another reason was the lack of interesting games to appeal to non nintendo fans. Nintendo just keep releasing mario crap that non nintendo fans dont care about his games release somethin new and breathtaking. A good example of this was splatoon, bayonetta 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles X which surprisingly did good in catching people attention.


To degree this true but Nintendo did publish the upgraded port of Ninja Gaiden 3 with Wii U. Their biggest problem was that they didn't ADVERTISE it and some the other 3rd party games at launch. Imagine instead of seeing a lame neon Hollywood squares commercial with families, you saw a commercial focused on ZombiU. Or one that showcased Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's edge as a Wii U exclusive (which would have been true at the time) or some of the other 3rd party ports they had at the time.

 

Nintendo had games lined up for the traditional gamer but they failed to market them and thus the games failed to move units and now the perceptions are that no one cares. It isn't all on Nintendo in terms of other 3rd party publishers but in cases were Nintendo could help they should.


Eh ... they had Zombi U ... which had middling reviews and quite honestly was never going to be a big time FPS franchise. I don't understand why Nintendo doesn't get this, but MULTIPLAYER is what makes the FPS genre go. GoldenEye understood this so does Splatoon (finally), but Metroid Prime and things like Zombi U never will be big sellers in the same way because they are essentially single player games. 

Ninja Gaiden 3 ... lol, was an extremely mediocre game. I think they just picked it up as a favor to the guys at Tecmo that are close to, but it's probably better they didn't advertise that one. 

They had nothing really though that was going to make a PS3/360 owner go "oooh, yeah I'm totally ditching this platform that has 50 different FPS games to play Zombi U". 



RolStoppable said:
UncleScrooge said:

 

1) That should hold true, yes.

2) Indeed, this can cut both ways. Miyamoto is a proven man of denial as he truly believed that the GC failed because of marketing. But given how much of a failure the Wii U is, at least for the next generation Nintendo will adopt a mindset that they have to make products that people want to buy instead of making the products that their developers want to make.

3) I don't agree with that. This is more of a concession than anything else that it really isn't just the price that was the Wii U's problem.

4) This is similar to Miyamoto's GC denial that the GC failed to gain traction because the PS2 was too big of an obstacle to overcome due to its headstart. It's trying to shift the blame somewhere else. You need to look at the part of the quote where Miyamoto talks about boot up times of video game consoles. He says that the Gamepad was supposed to be a solution to long boot up times, yet before the Wii U there wasn't a single Nintendo system that had such a problem. They all were ready to go quickly.

5) It should mean that the next console won't use a dual analog controller as its standard input. With the Gamepad, they tried to make dual analog controllers look fun, but that obviously didn't work. A key point for the next console should be once again the design of a controller that doesn't suggest "sit down for 30 minutes just to learn the controls". Of course, there's nothing that stops Nintendo from selling a dual analog controller separately or packing one in with the console as a secondary option.

In the end though, it's Miyamoto. He isn't a good businessman. In a previous interview he even openly stated that he isn't interested in doing what's good for business if it's boring. What Iwata says is of much higher importance when it concerns the future of Nintendo.


Good points! I agree about part 4, you're right on that one (though I really want to believe he's not in denial anymore). I totally agree it's vital for them to release a console that doesn't require intense learning just to understand the controls. I've used the analogy of an iPhone and an old-school iPod in the past: Nintendo releasing the gamepad after realizing how important it was to make their console welcoming and to break down the barriers between gamer and console was akin to Apple (hypothetically) going back to the click-wheel iPod design in the iPhone 7 (worse, actually: Nintendo made their new device even more complicated).

I've always felt that Wii customers never left Nintendo. Nintendo left the customers. They had an amazing software output from 2004-2008 but then they got arrogant. Instead of continuing to deliver high quality games and content they resorted to "game mechanics", "surprising the customer" and "IP". Back in 2004 Nintendo felt the need to broaden the gaming demographic and to deliver the games people wanted to play. They also wanted to break down the barriers between normal people and game consoles. Today, Nintendo thinks people buy their games because they feature popular IP ("we don't need worldbuilding in a Mario game. People buy it anyway because it's Mario, so we can put the same worlds in there again and again") and cares more about game mechanics than actual content and fun. Starfox Zero looks a lot slower and less action packed than previous entries because they had to integrate the gamepad and introduce new "mechanics" (like stealth levels in an action game and two-screen gameplay).

In my opinion, if Nintendo focuses on making a console that is friendly, easy to understand, cheap and inviting customers will come back. But to achieve this they not only have to get the hardware right, but also the software. They need to make software that excites people, games everyone wants to play. Classic Nintendo games are not easy, they are just easy to understand (but hard to master). I wish them the best of luck and I think Nintendo's financial department and their hardware developers are really good. It's the software side (and the huge influence Miyamoto has over other departments) were things are lacking at the moment. 

Edit: I vividly remember when Miyamoto insulted Wii customers because they "just want to be entertained". I wonder what he thinks he's being paid for...



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I think people are not looking at the quote in proper context either, he's not saying they were banking on the instant boot feature to sell systems, but as a WHOLE feature set, they were betting on the "tablet" concept being a hit (one of the appeals of the tablet is that it doesn't have to boot up like a laptop or PC, you can use it instantly in the living room or anywhere else).

And Nintendo was actually right about that.

The tablet was a big, big hit. Bigger than the Wii actually. 

Unfortunately for them, it was Apple's big hit, not theirs.

Read again:

And we thought that with a tablet-type functionality connected to the system, you could have the rapid boot-up of tablet-type functionality, you could have the convenience of having that touch control with you there on the couch while you’re playing on a device that’s connected to the TV, and it would be a very unique system that could introduce some unique styles of play.
I think unfortunately what ended up happening was that tablets themselves appeared in the marketplace and evolved very, very rapidly, and unfortunately the Wii U system launched at a time where the uniqueness of those features were perhaps not as strong as they were when we had first begun developing them.


They had the tablet idea in development before the iPad released but took so long to bring it out that the iPad already had come out and so the Wii U tablet looked like a second rate (well) toy by comparison.

But fundamentally Nintendo's read that the tablet was going to be a revolution in household entertainment/computing wasn't actually off the mark. They were just in way over their head. We see it every day too ... people watching TV in their living room with their tablet in their lap. 



Soundwave said:
NoirSon said:


To degree this true but Nintendo did publish the upgraded port of Ninja Gaiden 3 with Wii U. Their biggest problem was that they didn't ADVERTISE it and some the other 3rd party games at launch. Imagine instead of seeing a lame neon Hollywood squares commercial with families, you saw a commercial focused on ZombiU. Or one that showcased Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's edge as a Wii U exclusive (which would have been true at the time) or some of the other 3rd party ports they had at the time.

 

Nintendo had games lined up for the traditional gamer but they failed to market them and thus the games failed to move units and now the perceptions are that no one cares. It isn't all on Nintendo in terms of other 3rd party publishers but in cases were Nintendo could help they should.


Eh ... they had Zombi U ... which had middling reviews and quite honestly was never going to be a big time FPS franchise. I don't understand why Nintendo doesn't get this, but MULTIPLAYER is what makes the FPS genre go. GoldenEye understood this so does Splatoon (finally), but Metroid Prime and things like Zombi U never will be big sellers in the same way because they are essentially single player games. 

Ninja Gaiden 3 ... lol, was an extremely mediocre game. I think they just picked it up as a favor to the guys at Tecmo that are close to, but it's probably better they didn't advertise that one. 

They had nothing really though that was going to make a PS3/360 owner go "oooh, yeah I'm totally ditching this platform that has 50 different FPS games to play Zombi U". 

 

It isn't about the game itself it is about the preception. Yeah, ZombiU had middling reviews but so do tons of games and movies that due to the right marketing push gather a ton revenue. I mean you see it with EVERY Transformers movie that Michael Bay does, the reviews a mediocre to bad from legit critics but they always wind up being one of the highest grossing films of the year. The benefit for advertising the like of ZombiU or Ninja Gaiden: Razor's Edge would be showing you had exclusive content aimed at a audience that may not know such titles were available on a Nintendo platform.

No way ZombiU would have turned into the next Call of Duty, but it could have been similar to Dead Island or at least capture a bigger pool of zombie/horror fans or gamers that love challenging gameplay like those that enjoy the Souls/Bloodborne style of unforgiving gaming. Not every gamer actually reads a number of game sites or reviews, a particular franchise brand or whatever they see something that draws their attention and will buy it.

Just allowing Word of Mouth/critical acclaim/the internet to sell games will only get you so far with most titles that aren't classics, a proper push could have shown that the Wii U isn't just another family/children console to play Mario games on together and drew in more sales which could have lead to a longer leash from certain 3rd parties before they pulled out which could have opened a lot more doors.