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Forums - General Discussion - 13 year old Girl commits Suicide After Dad Shares Public Shaming Video

I think that some of you are jumping the gun on this. It's speculation that she killed herself as a result of the vid unless there's actual proof to back it up. Societies for the longest time have used public shaming as a form of punishment that actually discourages bad behavior to a point. If it was used more widely, it would be more productive to society rather than just put people in jail.

Public shaming when it works. I bet she won't do that again.

 

Parents also use public shaming to punish their children especially if other forms of punishment aren't working. It works but sometimes it doesn't work so well.  It's completely fine in of itself. Did the father take it too far? I don't know but it's not really up to public opinion if he should be punished for the suicide of his daughter. I think that losing his daughter in that way is punishment enough if he really pushed her to that point.



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Honestly, there is not much I can say to this since I do not know enough of the back-story. She obviously had problems outside of this video, so suffice to say she did not kill herself because of it. Was it a poor move by the father? Yes, and I think he must feel absolutely terrible right now (unless there was more going on that we do not know of)..
I have no problem with public shaming, or punishment that suits the crime. However, cutting off your daughter's hair because of something bad she did? That isn't constructive punishment; it's bullying. Where is the reasoning behind it? Again I have no idea what the backstory is but cutting off her hair is a harsh punishment.
There are 1 million better ways he could have dealt with her while still getting the point across. The least he could have done is talked to her. I must iterate that hair is a source of pride for a girl, and a 13 year old girl who is going through huge changes in her life as well as the shithole that is middle school won't take the chop of her hair too well. Who knows what else she was dealing with?
I agree that most kids seem to be like whiny little twats these days. But whose fault is that? Not the kids.
There are a few further speculations I want to draw from this:
1. She had serious problems at school and/or with her father at home. Committing suicide is not something that anyone takes lightly, really. Unless.......
2. This may have been a spur of the emotional moment thing that happened on a drive home after an argument. Teenagers are not very rational thinkers when they are overcome with emotion. It may have been a kneejerk reaction to something. If this is the case, it is even more tragic.
He could have been very frustrated with her behavior and really wanted her to feel bad, he could have been an abuser, she could have had other problems; it doesn't matter. He made a terrible choice.



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Aeolus451 said:

I think that some of you are jumping the gun on this. It's speculation that she killed herself as a result of the vid unless there's actual proof to back it up. Societies for the longest time have used public shaming as a form of punishment that actually discourages bad behavior to a point. If it was used more widely, it would be more productive to society rather than just put people in jail.

Public shaming when it works. I bet she won't do that again.

 

Parents also use public shaming to punish their children especially if other forms of punishment aren't working. It works but sometimes it doesn't work so well.  It's completely fine in of itself. Did the father take it too far? I don't know but it's not really up to public opinion if he should be punished for the suicide of his daughter. I think that losing his daughter in that way is punishment enough if he really pushed her to that point.

I have to agree, it's a legitimate form of punishment. But it needs to suit the "crime" and the person being punished.

That said, I'm not sure if cutting a girl's hair is really a form of punishment, and not abuse in itself. Regardless of being recorded and shown online.



mysteryman said:
Aeolus451 said:

I think that some of you are jumping the gun on this. It's speculation that she killed herself as a result of the vid unless there's actual proof to back it up. Societies for the longest time have used public shaming as a form of punishment that actually discourages bad behavior to a point. If it was used more widely, it would be more productive to society rather than just put people in jail.

Public shaming when it works. I bet she won't do that again.

 

Parents also use public shaming to punish their children especially if other forms of punishment aren't working. It works but sometimes it doesn't work so well.  It's completely fine in of itself. Did the father take it too far? I don't know but it's not really up to public opinion if he should be punished for the suicide of his daughter. I think that losing his daughter in that way is punishment enough if he really pushed her to that point.

I have to agree, it's a legitimate form of punishment. But it needs to suit the "crime" and the person being punished.

That said, I'm not sure if cutting a girl's hair is really a form of punishment, and not abuse in itself. Regardless of being recorded and shown online.


http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2015/06/izabel-laxamana-suicide-dont-blame-dad-cops-tape-leaked/

Well, here's a different prespective on it.



That's what they call pro-active parenting. I've never heard of Dothraki outside of Essos.



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Firstly, any person who brings un-related individuals in to their punishment method is not an adult. Adults understand the difference between private and public matters. If somebody can't discern the appropriateness of such a thing then they are quite honestly immature and need a lot of ethics-training themselves. Many parents have learning to do before they can teach their children what is a right and wrong code of conduct. Understanding that you must keep certain matters private and not public is a simple thing which a lot of adults fail to understand.

Secondly, a decent parent should be in tune with their child and understand that the stress in their child's life, no matter how seemingly minuscule, can be amplified by chemical interactions in said child's body. They should not become another stress. but rather a person to come to for guidance and leadership. Even if this girl did not commit suicide SOLELY because of what her father did, it was most certainly a contributing factor. Also if a parent would do something like this (cut their child's hair and humiliate her online), chances are said parent was overbearing in other ways which were inductive to the child's problems. The parent needs to be there to support the child and help the child reach a good path in life, not become a punitive warden or ethical zealot. There is some point at which the trauma the parent induces by the punishment is more damaging to the child's development than the "bad" act the child was committing. It is at that point in which the parent should scale his/her punishments. Don't damage your child more than he/she would've been by trying to protect him/her.

Thirdly, with the internet, there needs to be a reformation of who has control over what can be posted. Adolescents should have more rights over their internet privacy than their parents. This would solve a plethora of instances of oversharing information and borderline abuse on the part of the children by their parents, which can harm them later in life as they become adults, even if it was unintentional on the parent's parts. More information is being used against people, and it is important that children have a mostly clean slate upon adulthood.

To say that she didn't try to kill herself because of this shows a lack of knowledge about how suicide victims choose when and where they will commit suicide. Often there is a long period of emotional stress ignited by a traumatic event. This could possibly be said traumatic event.



garywood said:
That's what they call pro-active parenting.

Aparently the parent wasn't "pro-active" enough, his daughter comitted suicide. 

I disagree though. This parent was reactive, his child did something wrong and he punished her for it AFTER the fact. He didn't teach her not to do said thing in the first place (saying something isn't the same thing as teaching.) 

At the point of a teenager though, parenting becomes more than pro-active and reactive. This is long after a child starts making ethic-based decisions of their own, and a parent must direct said ethical beliefs, not try to solely impose their own through enforcement. Understanding why something can be bad is more important than understanding that it is bad, especially the way many parents try to make things black-and-white bad vs. good and children are smart enough to understand that nothing is entirely bad nor good. 



Aeolus451 said:

I think that some of you are jumping the gun on this. It's speculation that she killed herself as a result of the vid unless there's actual proof to back it up. Societies for the longest time have used public shaming as a form of punishment that actually discourages bad behavior to a point. If it was used more widely, it would be more productive to society rather than just put people in jail.

*video*

Public shaming when it works. I bet she won't do that again.

 

Parents also use public shaming to punish their children especially if other forms of punishment aren't working. It works but sometimes it doesn't work so well.  It's completely fine in of itself. Did the father take it too far? I don't know but it's not really up to public opinion if he should be punished for the suicide of his daughter. I think that losing his daughter in that way is punishment enough if he really pushed her to that point.


Like somebody said, let the punishment fit the crime.  And the person in that video was an adult.  I've seen parents do that with their child, too and sometimes it is the best route to take.  Sometimes, it's not.  As a parent and a sibling, I know that even children raised in the same household have different needs and different levels  of tolerance.  There were things I could do to one sibling and she would laugh it off.  Do the same thing to another and she would be traumatized!  It's the parents job to know their child.  My daughter is as shy and socially awkward as they come.  She doesn't get a free ride but I have to be sensitive to the kind of person she is.  There's also a level of accountablity on my part.  She's fourteen and her own person but the person she is now is a direct result of the kind of parent I've been.

And, as with any situation with the media, lately--we don't have the full story.  We only have the story they want to tell.  I just know that these videos online of parents "shaming their child" have become more prevalent and, in some instances it seems the parent has the child's best interest in mind.  In other instances, the parent seems to want to make themselves famous at their child's expense.



sc94597 said:
garywood said:
That's what they call pro-active parenting.

Aparently the parent wasn't "pro-active" enough, his daughter comitted suicide. 

I disagree though. This parent was reactive, his child did something wrong and he punished her for it AFTER the fact. He didn't teach her not to do said thing in the first place (saying something isn't the same thing as teaching.) 

At the point of a teenager though, parenting becomes more than pro-active and reactive. This is long after a child starts making ethic-based decisions of their own, and a parent must direct said ethical beliefs, not try to solely impose their own through enforcement. Understanding why something can be bad is more important than understanding that it is bad, especially the way many parents try to make things black-and-white bad vs. good and children are smart enough to understand that nothing is entirely bad nor good. 

 

 

just because you teach a child something is wrong doesn't mean they'll lose their free will and never do it again

if they indeed decide to repeat the behavior to reinforce the idea people punish their children

if it was that easy no one would ever do anything bad after a certain age

 

"Understanding why something can be bad is more important than understanding that it is bad"

 

i'd argue that most of the time when people ( young or old ) do bad things that they acknowledge that they are bad and simply put their own interests ahead of their "moral" compass

when people do these things and they impact negatively on others and on self we have systems in place to punish them reactively



o_O.Q said:

just because you teach a child something is wrong doesn't mean they'll lose their free will and never do it again

if they indeed decide to repeat the behavior to reinforce the idea people punish their children

if it was that easy no one would ever do anything bad after a certain age

"Understanding why something can be bad is more important than understanding that it is bad"

 

i'd argue that most of the time when people ( young or old ) do bad things that they acknowledge that they are bad and simply put their own interests ahead of their "moral" compass

when people do these things and they impact negatively on others and on self we have systems in place to punish them reactively

If you teach somebody that something is wrong, child or adult, then they will be generally disuaded from doing it because they know internally why it is wrong. If you tell somebody that something is wrong, child or adult, then they might be disuaded from doing it, but they might also think you are projecting your morals on to them. A child or adult needs to feel something is wrong for it to have any effect, and certainly they might still choose to do the wrong thing because the alternative in their eyes is worse. 

Again, you are using an argument that there is some objective morality. There is not. Certain morals might be popular, but that doesn't make them objective. You need to imprint on the child why something is immoral so that they can agree that it is immoral. Or you might be able to describe it in a way that they can internalize. To just say something is bad doesn't work. And in this case there are conflicting moral beliefs on the topic (I'm assuming she was experimenting with drugs.) 

I am one to believe that society is responsible for reparation more than punitive controls. Helping people get back toward productive habits as opposed to punishing them for negative habits is a much better way of doing things. Sometimes a "punishment" is used to achieve this, but the goal isn't punishment but rather reparation. If you damage somebody so much more than their negative activity, then is that not counterproductive? It is like how we throw drug-users in prison so that they can get a criminal record and not be able to get a productive job and the consequence is that they have no means to leave their drug addiction because there are negative factors against them being able to reparate themselves. In this case, the father overdid his punishment, and instead of having a daughter who experiments with drugs he has no daughter at all.