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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony now Calls the PS Vita a “Legacy Platform” Outside of Japan/Asia

Shadow1980 said:
Smear-Gel said:


Wasnt last gen much higher than usual rather than this gen being much lower?

Definitely the former. To get the easy part out of the way first, the PSP was the first handheld not made by Nintendo to be a commercial success. Before the PSP, the best-selling non-Nintendo handheld was the Game Gear, which sold only 11 million units globally. Needless to say, a non-Nintendo handheld selling over 80 million units globally was quite an accomplishment, one that may never be repeated. For whatever reasons, the PSP succeeded where the Game Gear, Lynx, TurboExpress, and others failed. Needless to say, the unexpected success of the PSP combined with the phenomenal sales of the DS grossly inflated seventh-gen handheld sales. Together they sold more than every other preceding handheld (the Game Boy, GBA, GG, and all the also-rans) did combined, and they sold that much in a shorter span (we're talking 15 years between the launches of the Game Boy and DS). Just look at how well the two of them stack up together when compared to the console market (note that in this graph I'm assuming the 3DS sells 75 million and the Vita sells 15 million).

Speaking of the DS, it turned into an absolute beast once the DS Lite came out. From February 2007 to April 2010 the DS only dropped below 400k in a single NPD, that being January 2008. That's an almost unbroken streak of 400k+ monthly sales for over three years. The DS also holds the distinction of being the only system in U.S. history to sell over one million units in a single non-holiday month (April 2009, the month the DSi released). In Japan it rarely dropped below 100k per week during the period of January '07 to August '08. Similarly, in Europe the DS only dropped below half a million per month four times from 2007 through 2009.

By comparison, even at their bests the Wii and PS2 couldn't even come close to matching that kind of a streak. In the U.S. the Wii managed a 14-month 400k+ while the PS2 managed an 11-month 400k+ streak. Here's the total number of non-holiday months each system sold over 400k units (that I have NPD data for):

PS2: 16
Wii: 25
DS: 39

In Japan, the PS2 only sold over 100k in a non-holiday week four times and rarely even broke 75k. The only time the Wii breached the 100k mark in a single non-holiday week (both Famitsu and Media Create) was the week Dragon Quest Swords came out. Compare that to the DS staying over 100k per week for most of a 17-month span.

Needless to say, we shouldn't expect anything to replicate that kind of success. The DS was a once-in-a-lifetime thing that caught the gaming world on fire. It sold more in just five years than the original Game Boy did in 13, thus becoming the new second best-selling system ever, and it came dangerously close to passing the PS2 despite its much shorter lifespan.

So yeah, last gen was much higher than normal. The Vita isn't doing too great, but the 3DS is doing well. Of course, some people like to pooh-pooh the 3DS's performance because it might not pass the GBA in lifetime sales, but that's all the U.S.'s fault. For whatever reason, the GBA sold a hugely disproportionate amount of units in the U.S. (the U.S. handheld market was also rather inflated during the short time the GB Color was around; perhaps the Pokemon craze had something to do with that). Had the U.S. market behaved more like the rest of the world in handheld buying habits, the GBA might have sold only 60-65 million. In Japan the 3DS passed the GBA in lifetime sales months ago and is on track to pass the PSP sometime this holiday season. In Europe the 3DS may also sell about as well as the GBA. All things considered, the 3DS's sales are far from "doom" levels. Going by Nintendo's sales region system, if we assume 25M each in the Americas, Japan, and "Other" regions (Europe and other Old World markets outside of Japan), the final tally would look like this compared to previous Nintendo handhelds:

Not bad considering how inflated GBA sales in America were.

I read this and it was quite informative. Good job. I recommend you make it a thread.



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The 3DS wouldn't touch the GBA if the GBA had a full 5 year cycle even if US sales slowed down.

I also think it is unfair to single out the GBA for having strong sales in the US. So what? The DS enjoyed higher than usual sales in Europe. The 3DS has higher than proportionate sales in Japan. So why's the GBA the only one singled out? Seems like each of the last three Nintendo portable cycles has had the benefit of one market that breaks out a bit more than the others. The US adopted the DS later than Japan, which explains why GBA sales there are lower, they were prematurely cut off in Japan. 



Smear-Gel said:
MikeRox said:


If things aren't bad in the handheld market. Why is there absolutely NOTHING on the near horizon for the 3DS in the West? 3rd parties haven't just stopped making handheld games for shits and giggles (though I know a few are convinced there is some anti Nintendo conspiracy). There is quite simply very little money to be had other than the odd evergreen exception.


Pokemon Mystery Dungeon? Fire Emblem and Bravely Second's inevitable localizations? Animal Crossing? Plus, Zelda and Xenoblade was just a month or two ago.

Dont game consoles traditionally look barren right before E3 too?


Handheld market now so bad EA can't even be arsed to reskin and re-release the same game anymore. No more FIFA on handhelds.

http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/PS+Vita/FIFA+16/news.asp?c=65623

And before all the "well meh, FIFA sucks ya boo" stuff. It's yet another genre (and so appeal) of the handheld market killed.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Shadow1980 said:
MikeRox said:


Handheld market now so bad EA can't even be arsed to reskin and re-release the same game anymore. No more FIFA on handhelds.

http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/PS+Vita/FIFA+16/news.asp?c=65623

And before all the "well meh, FIFA sucks ya boo" stuff. It's yet another genre (and so appeal) of the handheld market killed.


4 million sales globally across 13 games on the DS & 3DS, for a staggering 307,700 per-game average. Clearly FIFA was tearing up the sales charts on handheld Nintendo systems. Or not. It probably hurts Sony more, with FIFA selling 10 million copies across 17 games released on the PSP and Vita, but even then you're still talking about the series averaging half a million per game (though most of the main series entries sold over a million). With DS & 3DS owners not caring much about FIFA (we're talking a negligible percentage of DS owners here buying even the best-selling FIFA game for the system) and the Vita bombing, EA probably isn't bothering. With the handheld market being so staggeringly large last generation, even EA took the time out to release a game series that generates most of its sales in one region, but EA was never a huge player in the handheld market to begin with (they had moderate success with Harry Potter and The Sims games for the GBA and DS, but that's about it), so, uh, big deal if they're not bothering with FIFA anymore.

 

EDIT: Oh, and Soundwave, I've been over this with you before on this subject in past threads. I'm not getting into another circular argument with you on this. I've explained all that I need to.


more and more companies and franchises ditching handheld is "big deal" actually. Yes, it's a downward spiral. The less varied stuff coming out, fewer and fewer people will be interested in handheld, so even less varied stuff coming out.

FIFA used to do a lot better on handheld. And EA support used to be a lot stronger too. All their main franchises were put on handhelds. Now they've abandoned dedicated handheld completely. The case is the same for pretty much all the other major Western publishers. Their games are now hitting mobile instead.

If you don't think the biggest publishers in the industry categorically stating they're done with it as a medium is a big deal, then we've nothing left to discuss.  The decline of Western handheld development is pretty spectacular, and it means the success of dedicated devices is on a sharply downward trajectory.

Handheld is officially becoming a minor niche in the industry. You can ignore it as much as you like and point to the whopping success of the few remaining handheld titles that do sell in significant amounts. But even those will start to feel the decline in the long run if no fresh blood is pumped into Handheld.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

RolStoppable said:
MikeRox said:

more and more companies and franchises ditching handheld is "big deal" actually. Yes, it's a downward spiral. The less varied stuff coming out, fewer and fewer people will be interested in handheld, so even less varied stuff coming out.

FIFA used to do a lot better on handheld. And EA support used to be a lot stronger too. All their main franchises were put on handhelds. Now they've abandoned dedicated handheld completely.

If you don't think the biggest publishers in the industry categorically stating they're done with it as a medium is a big deal, then we've nothing left to discuss.  The decline of Western handheld development is pretty spectacular, and it means the success of dedicated devices is on a sharply downward trajectory.

Oh please, you make it seem like that is the end of the world. As long as the most important publisher of handheld games can be bothered to make games for Nintendo hardware, handhelds aren't going to go away.


It pretty much is for those of us who want more than just Nintendo software on portable systems.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

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RolStoppable said:
MikeRox said:

It pretty much is for those of us who want more than just Nintendo software on portable systems.

Well, tough luck. Should have bought more games to show EA and others that there is a market.


I did (inc 3 copies of FIFA 11 Vita port reskin edition) :p I'm not fishing the shelf out again! I'll just enjoy what is left to come, ride out this generation and go back to home consoles/PC. My commute will be slashed from 2 hours each way to 30 minutes soon anyway ^_^



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Heavily discounted? It's not Steam sales. I had to slow up while the missus found a job, but she's done that now so the day of release purchasing can resume! :D



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

RolStoppable said:
MikeRox said:
Heavily discounted? It's not Steam sales. I had to slow up while the missus found a job, but she's done that now so the day of release purchasing can resume! :D

Yes, heavily discounted. In other words, far below the original RRP. Just because you've paid a few pounds instead of a few pence doesn't make it any less of an issue if you want to show support for a company.


Few pounds? I generally do pay what retailers charge on release for stuff so not really sure what you're getting at. If you mean paying £29.99 when the "RRP" is £39.99, you clearly don't know how retail works in the UK. Very few games are sold at RRP here.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

RolStoppable said:
MikeRox said:

Few pounds? I generally do pay what retailers charge on release for stuff so not really sure what you're getting at. If you mean paying £29.99 when the "RRP" is £39.99, you clearly don't know how retail works in the UK. Very few games are sold at RRP here.

I mean anywhere between 5-15 pounds. Or are you telling me that you paid 30 for each copy of FIFA?


£44.99 for FIFA Soccer, did hold out on FIFA 13 to £12.99 because it was the same game 6 months later with a few reskins and then paid £24.99 again for FIFA 14 for more life online. However, I was more referring to handheld software publishers in General which is what your initial post mentioned.

Well, tough luck. Should have bought more games to show EA and others that there is a market.

It was the portable racing games like WRC I wanted the most. Actually paid a whopping £35 day of release for WRC4. Just this week have ordered Terarria at full price, Looney Tunes which came out today and then Criminal Girls and Tokyo Ghost Hunters. Also got Retro City Rampage DX Physical release earlier in the month and Spongebob Hero Pants.

I think my non bargain bin support of Vita is active enough and there's not really many more games I can buy :p but that's what happens when you collect software for a platform.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

RolStoppable said:

See, by waiting for FIFA 13 to drop to 13 pounds you became part of the problem. The timing of that release was during the crucial period where the future of the Vita as a whole was at stake, but you dropped the ball. When you spent 25 pounds on FIFA 14, it was already too little, too late.

I know, silly me, paying £39.99 each for Assassin's Creed III Liberation and Need for Speed Most Wanted instead of a game I pretty much already owned eh?



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.