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Forums - Politics Discussion - Christianity is Anti-Hatred of People or Groups of People

There are things in the bible that says what God hates but at the same time, you can do something that he may hate but he will still forgive you. There is only one unforgivable sin. Also really it is not God hating the person, it is God hating the action that is taking place which is why he will forgive as he doesn't hate you, he loves you instead.

 

ArchangelMadzz said:

So it's wrong? Is it not what God wants if this is the book of God?

Just incase someone says:

'But old testimant doesn't matter/isn't relevant now'

 I guess that whole bit about the 10 commandments and God creating the world don't matter either. 

In a way, it is and isn't a matter with the Old Testiment. More so what people say doesn't matter is the laws, a lot of the laws to behonest and with the New testiment, there was the "new" laws which a lot of them more reinforce the old laws. The New Testiment tells us to follow the ten commandments so even if someone wanted to argue saying "But old testimant doesn't matter/isn't relevant now", that is technically untrue as the New Testiment reinforces a lot of the Old Testiment laws



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ohmylanta1003 said:
JWeinCom said:


And indeed it was.  A scientific theory is a type of theory?  Sure.  But that doesn't mean you could ignore the word scientific.  A scientific theory is a special case of a theory, and therefore should be treated differently.  To imply that all theories are on equal ground (which you implied even if you did not say) is foolish.  To imply that we shouldn't teach scientific theories in science class even more so.

Similarly a domesticated dog and a dog are two very different things.  Just like with different types of theories, you'd probably be ok with one being in your child's classroom, but not the other.

You're under no obligation to respond.  If you feel you have better places to embarrass yourself, then go ahead and don't allow me to stop you.  But if you're going to bring something up in a public forum, don't get upset when people challenge it.


Clearly there is no point in talking to you. I was simply defending Spurge, because someone said he was embarrassing himself for using the word theory instead of scientific theory. What Spurge said was certainly correct and he most definitely did not "embarrass himself". A scientific theory is a subclass of theory, which means Spurge did nothing wrong. "I drove my vehicle to work today". "I drove my car to work today". Car is a subclass of vehicle, therefore, neither statement is incorrect, one is just more specific. Whoopdeefuckingdoo.

Well, no there probably isn't a point in talking to me when what you have to say is so ridiculous.

Spurge did not simply use the word theory instead of scientific theory.  He called evolution a theory, which is wrong.  He also implied that scientific theories were on equal level with any generic theory, which is also wrong.  The implication of his post was clearly that, because it is a theory, it is not ok to teach Darwin's Theory of Evolution (or evolution at all).  That was quite an embarrassing suggestion indeed, although it was quite nice of you to jump in so he didn't have to be embarrassed alone. Do not pretend this was about semantics.    It was about whether or not scientific theories were appropriate for the class.  Don't try to backtrack.  And if you admit that they are, then your embarrassment can be over.

You said you were a mechanical engineer, right?  Why did you say mechanical?  An mechanical engineer is just an engineer right?

Would you rather have sex with just any female, or a biological female?  They're both just females, right?

Would you rather be operated on a doctor, or a medical doctor?  For that matter, would you prefer a licensed doctor, or just any doctor? They're all just doctor's right?

Would you rather eat just any flesh or cow flesh?  Flesh is flesh, right?

If you were getting a divorce, would you want just any lawyer or a divorce lawyer? A lawyer is a lawyer right?

Would you prefer to eat rotten cheese or just any cheese?  Rotten cheese is just cheese right?

Adjectives are an important part of the english language.  So, whether you say car or vehicle probably isn't important.  But, in other cases that distinction can be very important.  A doctor of medicine is very different than a doctor of the arts.  They are both doctors, but I'm sure you wouldn't want someone with a PHD in Art History to operate on you.  If somone told you they were an athlete, you might not be impressed.  If they said they were an olympic athlete, you'd probably feel differently.

A dancer is very different from an exotic dancer.  You may not mind if your daughter grew up to be a dancer, but the word exotic changes things, doesn't it?

And in this case, a scientific theory is very different than just any old theory.   Spurge implied they were the same, and you backed him up.  And that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of science, and is an incredibly foolish thing to say.  



sundin13 said:
RadiantDanceMachine said:

You made no replies in reference to my quotations, you made replies in reference to my occurrences which renders your "out of context" entirely obsolete, which is why I ignored a rebuttal that made no sense. I thought this was very easily understood...by anyone, I suppose I was mistaken.

You seem to not be following this procession of events at all I'm afraid.

Your claim: "Thus, if a so called Christian says "God hates X" they are either not a Christian, or at the very least sinning themselves."

Was refuted by:

1) Quite a few quotations which evidence that several things are hated as per the Bible. 

2) The number of occurences within the Bible that hate is used.

Your efforts at refuting 2) were a complete failure due to the argument itself being a non-sequitur. Namely "IFF Christ/Jesus are mentioned more than hate, then no hate exists".

No effort has been made to address 1) at any point in time until now. These efforts currently stem from nothing at all. Read the passages that contain these quotations in their entirety...nothing is taken out of context here. Feel free to look them up, surely you know where they are?

Oh dear...if you can't see the clear and marked distinction between my argument and yours, you truly are way out of your depth here.

My argument is as follows:

P1) If hate is mentioned in the bible, "god" hates something. 

P2) Hate is mentioned in the bible.

C) Ergo, god hates something.

*P1 could very easily be amended to state: "If the bible mentions that god/lord/Jesus hates X, then god hates X" based upon ample quotations of such.

Your argument:

P1) If Jesus/Christ are mentioned in the bible more than hate, then "god" doesn't hate anything. (clearly inept)

P2) Jesus/Christ are mentioned more in the bible than hate.

C) Ergo, "god" doesn't hate anything.

Hopefully this clears up your confusion since you seem wildly confused about the procession of events.

I hope you don't mind me jumping in. I haven't read this whole thread but I would like to say a couple things.

a. You should replace your arguments P1 with the amended version, as the logic of P1 without the amendment doesn't make sense. Obviously, the context of the word "hate" is important. A statement such as (this is not a passage from the bible, merely an example): "The men hated and stoned and cursed the heathens, but Jesus stepped forth and asked 'why do you throw stones at those who have not experienced God's glory? Should you not instead attempt to open their eyes to the glory of God's love?". Such a statement would obviously not support your argument.

b. Hate in the bible (judging from those passages you posted) is reserved for ideas, not for people. From that, "God hates sin" is a valid statement whereas "God hates sinners" is not. This also creates a distinction between the emotion of hate and the expression of hate. Reading between the lines, the OP seems to have been discussing hate of a group of people and not hate of an idea, however it was expressed poorly. A better thread title would likely be something along the lines of "Christianity is opposed to the expression of hate".


God flooded the world and killed everyone but like five people.  If that's not an expression of hate, I'm not sure what would qualify.



JWeinCom said:

God flooded the world and killed everyone but like five people.  If that's not an expression of hate, I'm not sure what would qualify.


Or you could look at it as God seeing that the Earth was irreparably sinful and he wanted to give the beings that he created and loved so much another chance. I don't think that the great flood was an act of hatred, moreso disappointment...



RadiantDanceMachine said:
ohmylanta1003 said:


That would make sense if my comment was actually foolish.

It was incredibly foolish. A scientific theory has a specialized definition that does not lend it to be analogous with "theory" in any other field of study.


But it is a theory. If it wasn't a theory, they wouldn't put the word theory in the phrase scientific theory. You're wrong. There's nothing else to it.



I bet the Wii U would sell more than 15M LTD by the end of 2015. He bet it would sell less. I lost.

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sundin13 said:
JWeinCom said:

God flooded the world and killed everyone but like five people.  If that's not an expression of hate, I'm not sure what would qualify.


Or you could look at it as God seeing that the Earth was irreparably sinful and he wanted to give the beings that he created and loved so much another chance. I don't think that the great flood was an act of hatred, moreso disappointment...


There were babies on the Earth at the time.  Right?  I mean, I know it's not real or anything, but we have to assume that babies exist in the fictional world.  There were also lots of animals.  Noah took two of each, which meant the others had to die.  Not only did the animals and babies have to die, but they had to do so in an incredibly agonizing way.  Couldn't he have just had them all die in their sleep?  Or, you know, not kill them at all.  

You said that god hates sin, yes?  So there were people who were sinful and he drowned them all.  I'd say that would be an act that expressed his hatred.  



JWeinCom said:

There were babies on the Earth at the time.  Right?  I mean, I know it's not real or anything, but we have to assume that babies exist in the fictional world.  There were also lots of animals.  Noah took two of each, which meant the others had to die.  Not only did the animals and babies have to die, but they had to do so in an incredibly agonizing way.  Couldn't he have just had them all die in their sleep?  Or, you know, not kill them at all.  

You said that god hates sin, yes?  So there were people who were sinful and he drowned them all.  I'd say that would be an act that expressed his hatred.  

First of all, no one appreciates your "its not real" statements. Pretty sure everybody here already knows that you don't believe in God, and even if they didn't, there are other ways to convey that than being rude and belittling people's faith.

Anyways, if God were to not kill them, the world would go on in sin, and no one would get into heaven which is considered the greatest punishment. Its not difficult to see how this could be considered an act of mercy and love, giving the beings he created a second chance. Feel free to not see it that way, but you aren't going to prove anything as there isn't really any basis in fact here...



sundin13 said:
JWeinCom said:

There were babies on the Earth at the time.  Right?  I mean, I know it's not real or anything, but we have to assume that babies exist in the fictional world.  There were also lots of animals.  Noah took two of each, which meant the others had to die.  Not only did the animals and babies have to die, but they had to do so in an incredibly agonizing way.  Couldn't he have just had them all die in their sleep?  Or, you know, not kill them at all.  

You said that god hates sin, yes?  So there were people who were sinful and he drowned them all.  I'd say that would be an act that expressed his hatred.  

First of all, no one appreciates your "its not real" statements. Pretty sure everybody here already knows that you don't believe in God, and even if they didn't, there are other ways to convey that than being rude and belittling people's faith.

Anyways, if God were to not kill them, the world would go on in sin, and no one would get into heaven which is considered the greatest punishment. Its not difficult to see how this could be considered an act of mercy and love, giving the beings he created a second chance. Feel free to not see it that way, but you aren't going to prove anything as there isn't really any basis in fact here...

I was under the impression that Noah's Flood was not viewed as literal, even by most Christians.  If anyone actually believes that one family literally created an ark, literally filled it with two of each animals, the earth was literally flooded, and the water literally disappeared and left the water cycle... Well then I am happy to belittle that idea, whether or not people appreciate it.  I mean, if people take the story metaphorically I can respectuflly disagree, but if people take it literally, I'm not going to lie and say I don't find that ridiculous.

Yes.  It is very hard to believe that killing innocent people and animals is anything good.  Even IF this was necessary, could god not have done it in such a way to avoid suffering?  Was it necessary to drown animals?  Newborns?  

Of course, this is interpretation of literature, so there is no fact, but I believe that killing nearly every living thing is pretty much the most hateful thing that can be done.



JWeinCom said:

I was under the impression that Noah's Flood was not viewed as literal, even by most Christians.  If anyone actually believes that one family literally created an ark, literally filled it with two of each animals, the earth was literally flooded, and the water literally disappeared and left the water cycle... Well then I am happy to belittle that idea, whether or not people appreciate it.  I mean, if people take the story metaphorically I can respectuflly disagree, but if people take it literally, I'm not going to lie and say I don't find that ridiculous.

Yes.  It is very hard to believe that killing innocent people and animals is anything good.  Even IF this was necessary, could god not have done it in such a way to avoid suffering?  Was it necessary to drown animals?  Newborns?  

Of course, this is interpretation of literature, so there is no fact, but I believe that killing nearly every living thing is pretty much the most hateful thing that can be done.


Again, whether or not it is metaphorical, there are ways to have a discussion without being incredibly rude.

As for everything else, I have already explained myself. Both sides of this argument are not based on fact, and your interpretations do not necessarily speak to the truth of the matter. The fact is, this can be explained in a way that doesn't involved hate, whether or not you accept that explanation is irrelevant. The great flood, metaphorical or not, cannot be used to disprove the statement that "Christianity is against expressions of hate". Moreso, after the great flood, God swore to solemnly promised to never do such a thing again, so it is somewhat irrelevant to the modern principles of the religion.



sundin13 said:
JWeinCom said:

I was under the impression that Noah's Flood was not viewed as literal, even by most Christians.  If anyone actually believes that one family literally created an ark, literally filled it with two of each animals, the earth was literally flooded, and the water literally disappeared and left the water cycle... Well then I am happy to belittle that idea, whether or not people appreciate it.  I mean, if people take the story metaphorically I can respectuflly disagree, but if people take it literally, I'm not going to lie and say I don't find that ridiculous.

Yes.  It is very hard to believe that killing innocent people and animals is anything good.  Even IF this was necessary, could god not have done it in such a way to avoid suffering?  Was it necessary to drown animals?  Newborns?  

Of course, this is interpretation of literature, so there is no fact, but I believe that killing nearly every living thing is pretty much the most hateful thing that can be done.


Again, whether or not it is metaphorical, there are ways to have a discussion without being incredibly rude.

As for everything else, I have already explained myself. Both sides of this argument are not based on fact, and your interpretations do not necessarily speak to the truth of the matter. The fact is, this can be explained in a way that doesn't involved hate, whether or not you accept that explanation is irrelevant. The great flood, metaphorical or not, cannot be used to disprove the statement that "Christianity is against expressions of hate". Moreso, after the great flood, God swore to solemnly promised to never do such a thing again, so it is somewhat irrelevant to the modern principles of the religion.

God says he will never destory the world with a flood.  He can still destroy it any other way he wants.  He keeps his options open.  And, this topic was about whether the bible could suport hatred, so the old testament is relevant.  

The simple fact is that an omnipotent loving god could have done this in a way with no collateral damage.  He could have had every sinner have a heart attack in his sleep.  He could have just poofed them out of existence, right?  He could have... you know.... not drowned everyone and everything, including things which had never done anything wrong.

It is impossible to believe that this method was not chosen particularly to inflict suffering.  Drowning is a particularly agonizing way to go.