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Forums - Sports Discussion - NBA Playoffs 2015 NBA FINALS. Warriors win Series 4-2!

 

WHO WILL WIN THE NBA FINALS?

Golden State Warriors 53 66.25%
 
Cleveland Cavaliers 27 33.75%
 
Total:80
Chris Hu on 07 June 2015

Lets the all time great NBA team old rule style (12 man roster) would be:
Starting five:
PF Tim Duncan
SF Larry Bird
C Wilt Chamerlain
PG John Stockton
SG Michael Jordan

Bench
PF Bill Russel
SF LeBron James
C Shaquile O'Neal
PG Magic Johnson
SG Kobe Bryant
PF Karl Malone
C Kareem Abdul Jabar

So not putting Stockon in the all time top ten is totally ridiculous he pretty much would be a starter on almost everyones all time NBA team and if not he would be in the top 5 bench players. Titles are all well and good but please have a look at his all time assist and steal numbers no one else is even close and nobody else will come close to those on top of all that he is one of the most durable players of all time he only missed four games in his first thirteen seasons and 22 in his entire career. In his 19 year career there are only two season where he didn't play in all the games he missed four games in the 1989-90 season and eighteen games in the 1997-98 season. Best passer of all time best pure point guard of all time one of the best defenders of all time and one of the most durable players of all time the only knock against him is that he never played on a team that had enough all around talent to win a title. Anyone that doesn't put him in the all time top ten player just doesn't know much about basketball overall. Winning titles is about having a great team around you.



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Chris Hu on 07 June 2015
TheGoldenBoy said:
Chris Hu said:
TheGoldenBoy said:
Chris Hu said:

John Stockton never won any rings but to be he is a top 10 player because of the numbers he put up.  He is the best pure point guard of all time and no one is even going to come close to his total assist and steal numbers.  Those two records he will have forever.  Lets see the current active leader in assist (Andre Miller) barely has over half as many as Stockton did and the same applies to the current active leader in steals (Kobe Bryant) and both of those are very close to retiring.

Stockton is another one of those guys (like Barkley and Malone) that just can't be in the Top 10 because of their lack of rings. If sheer numbers is all it takes then Kareem should be considered the greatest of all time because he's Top 5 in Points, Blocks and Rebounds. For me personally it's a combination of the numbers and accomplishments. Stockton's definitely Top 20 though. 

Nope,  you need a team to win and Stockton just never had enough help besides Malone and even without much of a suporting cast he made it to two consecutive finals.  Also its pretty dumb to have a top ten that doesn't have a player from every postion.  Stockton is the best overall pure point guard so not putting him in a all time top ten is pretty dumb.  The only other point guard you can put ahead of him because of titles is Magic Johsonson but that is a unfair comparison since in reality Magic Johson was a small forward that happened to play the point guard spot.  Guys that are 6'9 are usually small forwards or shooting guards.

A Top 10 list isn't charity. You have to earn that spot and the facts are that there are 10+ players with greater accomplishments than John Stockton. What position you played doesn't matter in where you rank. You don't need a player from every position. You can make a Top 10 list with 6 Centers if you wanted to. This is not about creating the best team, it's about the greatest players to ever play.

 Also, comparing Magic to John is also completely fair because Magic did play the PG position. It's your skill set that determines your position not your height. If that's the case then it's "unfair" to even compare Lebron with anyone since he can and does play the PG, SG, SF and PF positions effectively. 

The fact is that there aren't 10 other player with greater accomplishement there are no other players that have unsurpassable leads in two major statics assists and steals which proofs that he was a great offensive and defensive player.  Winnig titles is about teams not players, basketball is a team sport.  Raking the all time top ten is about more then just titles. 



TheGoldenBoy on 07 June 2015
Chris Hu said:
TheGoldenBoy said:
Chris Hu said:
TheGoldenBoy said:
Chris Hu said:

John Stockton never won any rings but to be he is a top 10 player because of the numbers he put up.  He is the best pure point guard of all time and no one is even going to come close to his total assist and steal numbers.  Those two records he will have forever.  Lets see the current active leader in assist (Andre Miller) barely has over half as many as Stockton did and the same applies to the current active leader in steals (Kobe Bryant) and both of those are very close to retiring.

Stockton is another one of those guys (like Barkley and Malone) that just can't be in the Top 10 because of their lack of rings. If sheer numbers is all it takes then Kareem should be considered the greatest of all time because he's Top 5 in Points, Blocks and Rebounds. For me personally it's a combination of the numbers and accomplishments. Stockton's definitely Top 20 though. 

Nope,  you need a team to win and Stockton just never had enough help besides Malone and even without much of a suporting cast he made it to two consecutive finals.  Also its pretty dumb to have a top ten that doesn't have a player from every postion.  Stockton is the best overall pure point guard so not putting him in a all time top ten is pretty dumb.  The only other point guard you can put ahead of him because of titles is Magic Johsonson but that is a unfair comparison since in reality Magic Johson was a small forward that happened to play the point guard spot.  Guys that are 6'9 are usually small forwards or shooting guards.

A Top 10 list isn't charity. You have to earn that spot and the facts are that there are 10+ players with greater accomplishments than John Stockton. What position you played doesn't matter in where you rank. You don't need a player from every position. You can make a Top 10 list with 6 Centers if you wanted to. This is not about creating the best team, it's about the greatest players to ever play.

 Also, comparing Magic to John is also completely fair because Magic did play the PG position. It's your skill set that determines your position not your height. If that's the case then it's "unfair" to even compare Lebron with anyone since he can and does play the PG, SG, SF and PF positions effectively. 

The fact is that there aren't 10 other player with greater accomplishement there are no other players that have unsurpassable leads in two major statics assists and steals which proofs that he was a great offensive and defensive player.  Winnig titles is about teams not players, basketball is a team sport.  Raking the all time top ten is about more then just titles. 

No shit, that's why Bill Russell isn't considered the greatest over guys like Kareem and MJ. But to discount titles is idiotic considering that players themselves rank each other based on titles and a single player can impact a game in basketball more than any other major team sport. Also Stockton's high assist and steal totals because of his longevity and having the Malone as a teammate. Kobe Bryant isn't a better offensive player than Michael Jordan because he has more points than him. Marc Jackson isn't one of the greatest of all time because of his high assist total. Stockton was great, but he wasn't Top 10 great.



TheGoldenBoy on 07 June 2015
Chris Hu said:
Lets the all time great NBA team old rule style (12 man roster) would be:
Starting five:
PF Tim Duncan
SF Larry Bird
C Wilt Chamerlain
PG John Stockton
SG Michael Jordan

Bench
PF Bill Russel
SF LeBron James
C Shaquile O'Neal
PG Magic Johnson
SG Kobe Bryant
PF Karl Malone
C Kareem Abdul Jabar

So not putting Stockon in the all time top ten is totally ridiculous he pretty much would be a starter on almost everyones all time NBA team and if not he would be in the top 5 bench players. Titles are all well and good but please have a look at his all time assist and steal numbers no one else is even close and nobody else will come close to those on top of all that he is one of the most durable players of all time he only missed four games in his first thirteen seasons and 22 in his entire career. In his 19 year career there are only two season where he didn't play in all the games he missed four games in the 1989-90 season and eighteen games in the 1997-98 season. Best passer of all time best pure point guard of all time one of the best defenders of all time and one of the most durable players of all time the only knock against him is that he never played on a team that had enough all around talent to win a title. Anyone that doesn't put him in the all time top ten player just doesn't know much about basketball overall. Winning titles is about having a great team around you.

Apparently reading comprehension is difficult for you. What part of Top 10 list does not equate to building the greatest team do you not understand? No one, except for Utah Jazz homers, put John Stockton in their Top 10 lists. Hell, I don't think I've ever seen a player say Stockton is Top 10.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1795233-10-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2232060-br-nba-legends-100-ranking-the-greatest-players-of-all-time (Stockton is 23)
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history#photo-title=Best+of+the+best&photo=30219323
http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html (Stockton is 22)
http://sporteology.com/top-10-greatest-nba-players-time/ (Stockton is 26)
http://www.ibtimes.com/top-50-greatest-nba-players-all-time-where-jordan-kobe-lebron-bird-land-basketball-1952638 (Stockton is 32)

These are just a few lists and none of them have Stockton even close. But I'm sure them and everyone is wrong and you're right . . .

That last line was sarcasm by the way.



PAOerfulone on 07 June 2015

(whistles) Klay Thompson came to play today!



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Nuvendil on 07 June 2015

Yeah, sorry but I wouldn't have Stockton at starting PG either. I would go Jerry West. He's flexible with great offensive and defensive capabilities. 27 points (no 3 point line either and he shot from deep), 5.8 rebounds, 6.7 assists. Blocks and steals weren't tracked, but official estimates put it at .7 to 1 blocks and 2.6 to 3 steals per game. And he could achieve multiple blocks and 6 to 10 steals in a game; was reported to do so multiple times. He is reported to have pulled a quadruple double with 44 points, 12 rebounds, 12 assists, and 10 blocks. I mean come on, he won the Finals MVP while being on the losing team in 1969; no one else has performed well enough to earn that. The guy is just more flexible and impactful than Stockton based on data.



TheGoldenBoy on 07 June 2015

Time to see if the Cavs can win this overtime.



TheGoldenBoy on 07 June 2015

Curry just played one of the most awful games I've ever seen in the Finals.



tiffac on 07 June 2015

Looks like the Cavs stole the momentum in this series.



cheshirescat on 07 June 2015

The box score won't show it, but Dellavadova had one hell of a game tonight. Also, I agree with Jerry West over John Stockton, there's a reason West is the nba logo.