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Forums - General Discussion - Observation Shows Overwhelming Evidence for a Creator

o_O.Q on 20 April 2015
Soriku said:
HollyGamer said:
From ancient of times until now many people try to create life form a dead cell or chemicals composition, the result is " ZERO ". Many scientists even try to create single living cell from protein but until now there are none. Randomness will create nothing but creation or living being and material was build structurally perfect. even human DNA and RNA is have a perfect math and calculation for each pair .


If DNA/RNA was built "perfectly" no organism would have illnesses, diseases, birth defects. That's obviously not the case.

Are one of the people who believes that birth is being guided by some god, as opposed to being a natural process? What about evolution?

HollyGamer said:
From ancient of times until now many people try to create life form a dead cell or chemicals composition, the result is " ZERO ". Many scientists even try to create single living cell from protein but until now there are none. Randomness will create nothing but creation or living being and material was build structurally perfect. even human DNA and RNA is have a perfect math and calculation for each pair .

God of the gaps.

The OP doesn't have a very strong case. How do you go from "there are opposites in nature" to "there must be a creator"? Similarly, the hierarchy argument is just silly. The distribution of wealth is just a logical organization that makes note that not everyone will have the same amount of resources - not like the world is perfectly uniform. Similarly, organisms have adapted to a wide range of environments and ecological situations. Naturally, some will exhibit different types of emergent properties, ranking them higher than others on the biological hierarchy, although this doesn't make some organisms "better" than another. This is also distinctly related to evolution, not a supernaturally-guided process.


well no you misunderstood what i was saying

"Similarly, the hierarchy argument is just silly"

"ranking them higher than others on the biological hierarchy, although this doesn't make some organisms "better" than another."

 

i didn't say that any organism is "better" than another... my point was that the rarer group always rises to the top of the heirarchy in all facets in existance 

 

your points about adaptations to environments and so on is all superfluous fluff

 

the point is that in any ecosystem there will be producers at the bottom that are far more numerous, then a smaller group about that, then another, then another... till you get to the capstone of the pyramid which is us man... the ultimate apex organism on this planet

 

this rule applies to everything with regards to wealth distribution again you will always have a poorer more numerous class at the bottom and up to another group, and up again and so on till you get to the apex/capstone

 

as i said i could list examples endlessly till my hair turns grey and drops out because these are rules that form our underlying reality

 

oh here's another one that i'm sure you agree with

 

 

 

 



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o_O.Q on 20 April 2015
vivster said:
So you're saying that because physics behave by a logical pattern(math) that there must be a creator?
Where's the evidence again?

the evidence is the underlying mathematical laws that givern everything... intelligence creates laws... its irrational to say that such precisely tuned laws that form the basis for everything just popped into being spontaneously



HollyGamer on 20 April 2015
Blob said:
HollyGamer said:

" Your fart is already full of bacteria, which is life. It's already created."

No my fart does not created life but just continuing life that already exist =/= it's not the same with creating Life from nothingness

"it's really not as complicated as you make it out to be."

but then again  this just prove that until now there is no human that able to create cell from nothingness even on  advance lab with planned project and smart people on it, so how probability create organism if those planned project fail to create one cell.

"What caused they initial single cell bacteria to exist? That's a mystery to us currently, and the human race will probably be wiped out long before we figure it out."

The answer is clear with religion,  but the explanation on how it was created (science) may require times, like i said science  help explain religion, while religion is an early answer to help people and encouraging people to do some research.  In my religion Islam, God encouraging us human to explore science and His creation, encouraging us to explore the sky, universe, and explore the deep of see, and encourage us to think how everything works like the physic work, the natural law work etc. God encourage Muslim to think and learn.


sorry man but I'm ending this here. I know there is no way I can combat the "God made everything out of nothing" argument because there is absolutely no way to prove it either way, and thats garunteed to get us nowhere. 

It's OK for me because every one have their own opinion, it's up to you to judge, but i hope you can judge religion not becuase TV and Internet say or what most people say, if you want to judge you need to learn by your self and every religion is different and i hope you not generalizing all the same. peace be with u



o_O.Q on 20 April 2015
HollyGamer said:
From ancient of times until now many people try to create life form a dead cell or chemicals composition, the result is " ZERO ". Many scientists even try to create single living cell from protein but until now there are none. Randomness will create nothing but creation or living being and material was build structurally perfect. even human DNA and RNA is have a perfect math and calculation for each pair .


noi i can't agree with the thesis that DNA and RNA are perfect... what i would say is that their are very clearly defined laws governing their processes but no they are not perfect

 

edit: if we take the two extremes "perfection" and "imperfection" an examine them its clear that nothing that exists in this universe can be considered perfect

the reason for that is is multifaceted but one major reason is time... time converts/destroys everything that exists in our reality



HollyGamer on 20 April 2015
o_O.Q said:
HollyGamer said:
From ancient of times until now many people try to create life form a dead cell or chemicals composition, the result is " ZERO ". Many scientists even try to create single living cell from protein but until now there are none. Randomness will create nothing but creation or living being and material was build structurally perfect. even human DNA and RNA is have a perfect math and calculation for each pair .


noi i can't agree with the thesis that DNA and RNA are perfect... what i would say is that their are very clearly defined laws governing their processes but no they are not perfect

if it's not perfect then it wont create a cell or living organism, it is perfect because the purpose of DNA and RNA is for creating life, and there is no other comparison for DNA or RNA , thats why it's perfect on it's way.



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Torillian on 20 April 2015
o_O.Q said:
vivster said:
So you're saying that because physics behave by a logical pattern(math) that there must be a creator?
Where's the evidence again?

the evidence is the underlying mathematical laws that givern everything... intelligence creates laws... its irrational to say that such precisely tuned laws that form the basis for everything just popped into being spontaneously

why is it irrational?  Do you have evidence of another universe without god's influence where there were no laws and everything was perfectly random at every moment?  You can't say something is unlikely or irrational when you only have one event to look at.  There is no proof that universes can come into existence without these laws, and in that context "every universe that is viable is defined by ____ laws" it would be perfectly rational for a randomly formed universe to come into existence with those laws.  

Lots of irrational things happen when you look at events outside of your everday life.  Quantum Mechanics is a great example which doesn't follow what most would deem rational, bt it' whatscience has observed.  If it's true that an electron can only exist in certain orbitals around an atom and not in between them then it seems reasonable to state that perhaps our universe exists as it does with the rules it does because that it the only way a universe can come to be.  



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o_O.Q on 20 April 2015

one more thing i'd like to add is that the Egyptians understood all of this which is why we use all of their symbols 

 

this is why there's a pryamid on the dollar bill

     

 

its why the staff of horus is used as the main symbol for medical sciences

 

 

and its why the washington monument is a giant penis

 

 

again i could list examples till my hair turns grey



Blob on 20 April 2015
HollyGamer said:

It's OK for me because every one have their own opinion, it's up to you to judge, but i hope you can judge religion not becuase TV and Internet say or what most people say, if you want to judge you need to learn by your self and every religion is different and i hope you not generalizing all the same. peace be with u

 

Im not eneducated when it comes to religions, in fact I find all of them quite interesting. Nor do I judge those who believe in them, only those who use them as an excuse to do evil.

I for one hope there is an afterlife despite my beliefs as I quite enjoy life and certainly wouldn't want it to end



HollyGamer on 20 April 2015
o_O.Q said:

one more thing i'd like to add is that the Egyptians understood all of this which is why we use all of their symbols 

this is why there's a pryamid on the dollar bill

its why the staff of horus is used as the main symbol for medical sciences

and its why the washington monument is a giant penis

again i could list examples till my hair turns grey

Well bringing Egyptians as a sample is really wrong

because Egyptians worshiping Sun and Human, is really contradicting with today science and will only lead people to denied more or Intelligent creation.

They understood math and science (like most people who know science but does not worshiping God) but does not understood the connection between their God and their science.



o_O.Q on 20 April 2015
Torillian said:
o_O.Q said:

the evidence is the underlying mathematical laws that givern everything... intelligence creates laws... its irrational to say that such precisely tuned laws that form the basis for everything just popped into being spontaneously

why is it irrational?  Do you have evidence of another universe without god's influence where there were no laws and everything was perfectly random at every moment?  You can't say something is unlikely or irrational when you only have one event to look at.  There is no proof that universes can come into existence without these laws, and in that context "every universe that is viable is defined by ____ laws" it would be perfectly rational for a randomly formed universe to come into existence with those laws.  

Lots of irrational things happen when you look at events outside of your everday life.  Quantum Mechanics is a great example which doesn't follow what most would deem rational, bt it' whatscience has observed.  If it's true that an electron can only exist in certain orbitals around an atom and not in between them then it seems reasonable to state that perhaps our universe exists as it does with the rules it does because that it the only way a universe can come to be.  


ok let me give my perspective on this and if you disagree that's cool we can agree to disagree

 

from my perspective i can't expect to take a rock and squeeze mathematical equations out of it, i can't take out a telescope and spy an asteroid and expect it to flash some equations at me, i can't place my ear to the ground and expect that the earth is going to whisper equations to me

 

if i want to come up with mathematical equations i either have to use my intelligence or use the intelligence of some one else... it can never come from rocks or asteroids or planets

 

sure the argument exists that perhaps all of these things just randomly popped into being and i must admit that i subscribed to that belief from the time that i started thinking about these things but after a while and it becomes more and more obvious that its clear that there are laws behind it all it occurs to me that something formulated those laws

 

now it may be irrational to believe that since there is no evidence besides individual observation and individual conclusions drawn from those observations... its just my personal conclusion and i figured that i'd share it because of the threads i saw yesterday