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Forums - General Discussion - Observation Shows Overwhelming Evidence for a Creator

Soriku said:
HollyGamer said:

"Again, it's a natural process, not a guided one. DNA is obviously an emergent property."  and yet how natural process can be made? who made it that way, it cannot be simply exist without creation,

I ask you who made the gravitational law exist, who made the quantom theory exist, who made the water look like and taste like, who made that u are human?

PS4 with those defect is far from human deffect, for human even it's deffect they can show more effort and do better then a perffect human even more for  human creation dead object like PS4.


I ask you:

1. How do you know these things were created, instead of just being natural properties of the universe? If you just say "of course they had to be created, how could they exist" otherwise, I can ask the same of your god. Who created your god?

2. How do you know these things were created by your god specifically?

Also I don't understand your last sentence.

Haha you're in an endless argument you can never win. It's quite obvious that this fella conscripts to the usual deflection tactics when God is criticised, life is a test ect. 

we exist because we do. We are the result of a microscopic percentage of probability. Just like somewhere else in the universe were aliens likely exist due to random chance 



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Soriku said:
HollyGamer said:
Soriku said:
HollyGamer said:

Science will never able to "explain" God because it exist on different realm, plan and dimension and with limitness of human brain, it's imposible for human to explain and defining about God as entity, except for His  creations. The science it self is a creation from the Creator to help human recognise their Creator.

 

Science will never able to "explain" the Flying Spaghetti Monster because it exist on different realm, plan and dimension and with limitness of human brain, it's imposible for human to explain and defining about Flying Spaghetti Monster as entity, except for His  creations. The pasta maker it self is a creation from the Creator to help human recognise their Creator's delicious pasta.

You can't use special pleading in an argument. Also it took sure took God a long time to impart us with vaccines huh? Not actual research and trial and error...

Also if anything, science is making us realize a creator isn't necessary. Seems this perfect Creator's plan is backfiring.

"Science will never able to "explain" the Flying Spaghetti Monster because it exist on different realm, plan and dimension and with limitness of human brain, it's imposible for human to explain and defining about Flying Spaghetti Monster as entity, except for His  creations. The pasta maker it self is a creation from the Creator to help human recognise their Creator's delicious pasta."

What??? we are talking the Omnipotent here not (Pasta) human creation, anything that u can see from your eyes and thing with science it's His creation, but not the Creator, yet still you just prove that you unable to prove what God is, and dont bring Cristian God that resembles human, that is false God.

"You can't use special pleading in an argument. Also it took sure took God a long time to impart us with vaccines huh? Not actual research and trial and error..."

War, poverty, deadly virus, dead, and crime, is just exist because God allow it to happen in this logical world, this world is just a test for human and it will not exist for eternity. everything that create in this universe is for human kind, from animal, plant, earth only for the purpose of worshiping God. Even God create dead to help human, dead is not the end for everything.

and why the hell you discusiing this, isn't we were discusing

Observation Shows Overwhelming Evidence for a Creator


My point is you can't just say "God exists on a different plane, we can't detect or fathom him" and expect that to be taken seriously. You can say that about anything that is not readily observable, like the Flying Spaghetti Monster. How do you know the FSM doesn't exist? If you can't prove your God exists and you have to resort to the "he's not even in this universe" argument, I can dismiss his existence quite easily.

Also is this part "and dont bring Cristian God that resembles human, that is false God." supposed to be ironic? If you're Christian, Jesus was a human. Even Yahweh described in the Old Testament acts just like a human and has human-like qualities (like jealousy), not to mention the whole "I created you in my image" stuff.

You're not addressing my point that "creation" is not perfect at all.

No just Big No, FSM is obviously a creation based on item or event  that already exist and observable which are: Spaghetti, flying, and monster. But not with God, FSM does not mark some evidence unlike God with His creation and proved to be exist within His Creation.  Again you didn't answer my question how the natural law was created, how the law of physics was created???

"Also is this part "and don't bring Cristian God that resembles human, that is false God." supposed to be ironic? If you're Christian, Jesus was a human. Even Yahweh described in the Old Testament acts just like a human and has human-like qualities (like jealousy), not to mention the whole "I created you in my image" stuff"

I said many times his creation cannot resembles the creator, how come God with human like with two hand's can control massive universe or White color skin Jesus God is resembles human while human have many skin colors, how come God have  a nose like human while human cannot breath in water while God can exist everywhere. and how come God with 2 eyes able to see universe out side, and inside,  like i said, Cristian (well today Cristian is a religion that Create people like u, it's not logic and only depends on dogma.) like i said I am proposing another religion not Christianity.

"You're not addressing my point that "creation" is not perfect at all."

and u my friend cannot addressing what is prefect what is not in life, perfect in life  creations  mean is that the object is exist and fully materialize, whether it's defect or not is another different story. if human is deffect or a baby is deffect  then it simply mean to be like that. the same goes with why we have different type of mountain and why we have different type of eyes, skin colors, fat, skiney etc.



Blob said:
Soriku said:


I ask you:

1. How do you know these things were created, instead of just being natural properties of the universe? If you just say "of course they had to be created, how could they exist" otherwise, I can ask the same of your god. Who created your god?

2. How do you know these things were created by your god specifically?

Also I don't understand your last sentence.

Haha you're in an endless argument you can never win. It's quite obvious that this fella conscripts to the usual deflection tactics when God is criticised, life is a test ect. 

we exist because we do. We are the result of a microscopic percentage of probability. Just like somewhere else in the universe were aliens likely exist due to random chance 

"We are the result of a microscopic percentage of probability. Just like somewhere else in the universe were aliens likely exist due to random chance "

Then if we were the result of that, we wouldn't have talk in here, the OP already prove that probabaility will not make a thing, or even material and organisme. If our life is determine by probability then my fart already creating a Superman in my pant.



Torillian said:
HollyGamer said:
Torillian said:
HollyGamer said:

Soriku said:

This is also distinctly related to evolution, not a supernaturally-guided process.

What evolution, evolution theory has already debunked, it's an old "theory" and modern molecular biology science have prove that "imposible for  RNA and DNA of one species to eveolve to one another. 


citation required.  seriously, show me the modern molecular biology science that says macroevolution is impossible.  

Actually there are alot of book you can search on google or on every science research like this "

What Scientists Say About Evolution The modern theory of ...

afcinc.org/Portals/1/MC%20Lit/WSSAE-E.pdf
or you can just look on Wikipedia


I don't want an opinion piece, I want a peer reviewed scientific article with the proof that macroevolution is impossible.  Show me you've done some real research and that you don't just google things to use in internet arguments.  

why do i need to do another research if it's done already , that would be pointless, what i have to do (even tho it's not my expertise ) it's simply expand to another level, the important is with research is how reliable the research is, not how we get the information, heck even i can quote to wikipedia in my final thesis .



HollyGamer said:
Blob said:
Soriku said:


I ask you:

1. How do you know these things were created, instead of just being natural properties of the universe? If you just say "of course they had to be created, how could they exist" otherwise, I can ask the same of your god. Who created your god?

2. How do you know these things were created by your god specifically?

Also I don't understand your last sentence.

Haha you're in an endless argument you can never win. It's quite obvious that this fella conscripts to the usual deflection tactics when God is criticised, life is a test ect. 

we exist because we do. We are the result of a microscopic percentage of probability. Just like somewhere else in the universe were aliens likely exist due to random chance 

"We are the result of a microscopic percentage of probability. Just like somewhere else in the universe were aliens likely exist due to random chance "

Then if we were the result of that, we wouldn't have talk in here, the OP already prove that probabaility will not make a thing, or even material and organisme. If our life is determine by probability then my fart already creating a Superman in my pant.

 

No life is determined by many various things coming together, the probability of which all these requirements occurring together is infintesimal in likelihood. The fact that you can't create Superman with your farts has nothing to do with the occurrence of life.

Life is a virus, once started it expands and evolves uncontrollably over millions of years. Who knows, maybe your fart did carry some bacteria that will now be forced to evolve into something new now that it has contact with the outside world. 



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Soriku said:
HollyGamer said:

"Again, it's a natural process, not a guided one. DNA is obviously an emergent property."  and yet how natural process can be made? who made it that way, it cannot be simply exist without creation,

I ask you who made the gravitational law exist, who made the quantom theory exist, who made the water look like and taste like, who made that u are human?

PS4 with those defect is far from human deffect, for human even it's deffect they can show more effort and do better then a perffect human even more for  human creation dead object like PS4.


I ask you:

1. How do you know these things were created, instead of just being natural properties of the universe? If you just say "of course they had to be created, how could they exist" otherwise, I can ask the same of your god. Who created your god?

2. How do you know these things were created by your god specifically?

Also I don't understand your last sentence.

1. The God is created by it self becuase it simply "The Creator" it does not to Created by anything it's alpha and omega, The first and the last it exist is unlike His creation logic that need to be created.

2. Cristian God, Jews God is the same, but what bible said is wrong, i am sorry i am not saying Jesus is false what I am saying jesus is not God, He is simply human, but special Human that brought message to human, Cristian God, Hindus God, and Budhis God, a religion that believe in God have the same God, and what make it different is which one have the real message from God, and Islam and Quran is the real God Message  just read it

Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow)

1. Alif-Lam-Mim. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].

2. This is the Book (the Qur'an), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious and righteous persons who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)].

3. Who believe in the Ghaib and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and spend out of what we have provided for them [i.e. give Zakat , spend on themselves, their parents, their children, their wives, etc., and also give charity to the poor and also in Allah's Cause - Jihad, etc.].

4. And who believe in (the Qur'an and the Sunnah) which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Muhammad Peace be upon him ) and in [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] which were sent down before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter. (Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise and Hell, etc.).

5. They are on (true) guidance from their Lord, and they are the successful.

6. Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.

7. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allah's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.

8. And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not.

9. They (think to) deceive Allah and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!

10. In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies.

11. And when it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "We are only peacemakers."

12. Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive not.



Blob said:
HollyGamer said:
Blob said:
Soriku said:


I ask you:

1. How do you know these things were created, instead of just being natural properties of the universe? If you just say "of course they had to be created, how could they exist" otherwise, I can ask the same of your god. Who created your god?

2. How do you know these things were created by your god specifically?

Also I don't understand your last sentence.

Haha you're in an endless argument you can never win. It's quite obvious that this fella conscripts to the usual deflection tactics when God is criticised, life is a test ect. 

we exist because we do. We are the result of a microscopic percentage of probability. Just like somewhere else in the universe were aliens likely exist due to random chance 

"We are the result of a microscopic percentage of probability. Just like somewhere else in the universe were aliens likely exist due to random chance "

Then if we were the result of that, we wouldn't have talk in here, the OP already prove that probabaility will not make a thing, or even material and organisme. If our life is determine by probability then my fart already creating a Superman in my pant.

 

No life is determined by many various things coming together, the probability of which all these requirements occurring together is infintesimal in likelihood. The fact that you can't create Superman with your farts has nothing to do with the occurrence of life.

Life is a virus, once started it expands and evolves uncontrollably over millions of years. Who knows, maybe your fart did carry some bacteria that will now be forced to evolve into something new now that it has contact with the outside world. 

Then why are you saying life created by probability yet your answer is ambigous and said that it was determine by various thing. You answered differently. It's shown that you still dont know that probability in creations create nothing even not a single life cell or virus. so my fart will not create something never ever forever will be just a fart, if you observe cell and compare to Nasa Rocket Launcher it show that the cell is more complex then the rocket (and we are not  even discussing  DNA and RNA which will even more complicated) so that's why probability will not create such advance organisme.



HollyGamer said:
Blob said:

 

No life is determined by many various things coming together, the probability of which all these requirements occurring together is infintesimal in likelihood. The fact that you can't create Superman with your farts has nothing to do with the occurrence of life.

Life is a virus, once started it expands and evolves uncontrollably over millions of years. Who knows, maybe your fart did carry some bacteria that will now be forced to evolve into something new now that it has contact with the outside world. 

Then why are you saying life created by probability yet your answer is ambigous and said that it was determine by various thing. You answered differently. It's shown that you still dont know that probability in creations create nothing even not a single life cell or virus. so my fart will not create something never ever forever will be just a fart, if you observe cell and compare to Nasa Rocket Launcher it show that the cell is more complex then the rocket (and we are not  even discussing  DNA and RNA which will even more complicated) so that's why probability will not create such advance organisme.

 

I'll admit I probably didn't explain myself well. Single cell organisms exist outside of our own planet. However the likelihood that it is forced to evolve beyond that requires many criteria, of which we are not 100% of, but earth obviously contains. Obviously as we haven't found life beyond single cells yet the likelihood of these criteria being met is as far as we know statistically very small.

What caused they initial single cell bacteria to exist? That's a mystery to us currently, and the human race will probably be wiped out long before we figure it out. 

Your fart is already full of bacteria, which is life. It's already created.

I understand RNA and DNA, Its far more complicated than a machine but it's really not as complicated as you make it out to be. 



Blob said:
HollyGamer said:
Blob said:

 

No life is determined by many various things coming together, the probability of which all these requirements occurring together is infintesimal in likelihood. The fact that you can't create Superman with your farts has nothing to do with the occurrence of life.

Life is a virus, once started it expands and evolves uncontrollably over millions of years. Who knows, maybe your fart did carry some bacteria that will now be forced to evolve into something new now that it has contact with the outside world. 

Then why are you saying life created by probability yet your answer is ambigous and said that it was determine by various thing. You answered differently. It's shown that you still dont know that probability in creations create nothing even not a single life cell or virus. so my fart will not create something never ever forever will be just a fart, if you observe cell and compare to Nasa Rocket Launcher it show that the cell is more complex then the rocket (and we are not  even discussing  DNA and RNA which will even more complicated) so that's why probability will not create such advance organisme.

 

I'll admit I probably didn't explain myself well. Single cell organisms exist outside of our own planet. However the likelihood that it is forced to evolve beyond that requires many criteria, of which we are not 100% of, but earth obviously contains. Obviously as we haven't found life beyond single cells yet the likelihood of these criteria being met is as far as we know statistically very small.

What caused they initial single cell bacteria to exist? That's a mystery to us currently, and the human race will probably be wiped out long before we figure it out. 

Your fart is already full of bacteria, which is life. It's already created.

I understand RNA and DNA, Its far more complicated than a machine but it's really not as complicated as you make it out to be. 

" Your fart is already full of bacteria, which is life. It's already created."

No my fart does not created life but just continuing life that already exist =/= it's not the same with creating Life from nothingness

"it's really not as complicated as you make it out to be."

but then again  this just prove that until now there is no human that able to create cell from nothingness even on  advance lab with planned project and smart people on it, so how probability create organism if those planned project fail to create one cell.

"What caused they initial single cell bacteria to exist? That's a mystery to us currently, and the human race will probably be wiped out long before we figure it out."

The answer is clear with religion,  but the explanation on how it was created (science) may require times, like i said science  help explain religion, while religion is an early answer to help people and encouraging people to do some research.  In my religion Islam, God encouraging us human to explore science and His creation, encouraging us to explore the sky, universe, and explore the deep of see, and encourage us to think how everything works like the physic work, the natural law work etc. God encourage Muslim to think and learn.



HollyGamer said:

" Your fart is already full of bacteria, which is life. It's already created."

No my fart does not created life but just continuing life that already exist =/= it's not the same with creating Life from nothingness

"it's really not as complicated as you make it out to be."

but then again  this just prove that until now there is no human that able to create cell from nothingness even on  advance lab with planned project and smart people on it, so how probability create organism if those planned project fail to create one cell.

"What caused they initial single cell bacteria to exist? That's a mystery to us currently, and the human race will probably be wiped out long before we figure it out."

The answer is clear with religion,  but the explanation on how it was created (science) may require times, like i said science  help explain religion, while religion is an early answer to help people and encouraging people to do some research.  In my religion Islam, God encouraging us human to explore science and His creation, encouraging us to explore the sky, universe, and explore the deep of see, and encourage us to think how everything works like the physic work, the natural law work etc. God encourage Muslim to think and learn.


sorry man but I'm ending this here. I know there is no way I can combat the "God made everything out of nothing" argument because there is absolutely no way to prove it either way, and thats garunteed to get us nowhere.