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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why cant we just have Religion and Atheism live in Harmony?

Aeolus451 on 20 April 2015
Dante9 said:
Aeolus451 said:


By your own discription, Atheism is closer to an unorganized religion than to an ideology. The belief in no god(s) or higher power is not much different than a belief in a god or gods. Neither side can disprove or prove their "belief". It might as well be considered a religion in some sense in spite of having no place of worship or priests so that at the very least atheists would have equal rights compared to any religion. There's no point in being so strict on what's considered a religion. People are constantly redefining what a word means or creating new ones to better fit a meaning. 

Once more: Atheism is not a religion. Period. It is precisely NOT that.

Is not believing in dragons a religion? Or not believing in fairies? Jeez, I seem to be a member of a thousand religions without even knowing. And you too.


To the first bolded part. ----> Why? 

Is believing in dragons a religion? How about believing in fairies?

So if a couple of people get together, fill out some paperwork and say that they believe that dragons are real and that they are gods, that's considered a religion or a cult at the very least? Should they be given extra rights to protect their belief or "religion"? 

Why are atheists excluded from rights that would further protect their belief on religion in general? 

My point is that atheism should be treated as a religion only in the sense that they are given the same rights as religions. Why? Because atheists stand no chance against a religious group when they mention religious freedom in legal battles or in rights cases. 



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Aeolus451 on 20 April 2015
Ka-pi96 said:
Aeolus451 said:


By your own discription, Atheism is closer to an unorganized religion than to an ideology. The belief in no god(s) or higher power is not much different than a belief in a god or gods. Neither side can disprove or prove their "belief". It might as well be considered a religion in some sense in spite of having no place of worship or priests so that at the very least atheists would have equal rights compared to any religion. There's no point in being so strict on what's considered a religion. People are constantly redefining what a word means or creating new ones to better fit a meaning. 

You what now? You're calling for athiests to be discriminated against unless they say they are religious?


What? How you getting that from what I wrote?



Aeolus451 on 20 April 2015
Hiku said:
Aeolus451 said:
Toxy said:


Sorry, but no.

Atheism means they do not believe in any religion. If it cannot be proven to be real, it is assumed that it is not in fact real.

There is no 'worship' involved to deduce this conclusion.

That is like saying Liberalism, or Socialism are religions - this could not be further from the truth. They are ideologies. There is a difference between an ideology and believing in some invisible being. An ideology is an idea, or an opinion of worldly affairs if you will.


By your own discription, Atheism is closer to an unorganized religion than to an ideology. The belief in no god(s) or higher power is not much different than a belief in a god or gods. Neither side can disprove or prove their "belief". It might as well be considered a religion in some sense in spite of having no place of worship or priests so that at the very least atheists would have equal rights compared to any religion. There's no point in being so strict on what's considered a religion. People are constantly redefining what a word means or creating new ones to better fit a meaning. 

Don't try to liken it to a religion. Religious people are bound to specific beliefs and ways of living. An atheist can chose to believe in one thing one day, and another the next. Can chose to live one way one day, and another the next. There's no restriction, which is the complete opposite of what a religion is.

Also, not believing in god is not about proving that god doesn't exist, or even being certain. It's about not being convinced enough to believe in it. Which is something people do every day of their lives, whether they buy a lottery ticket that they don't believe will be a winner because of probabilities, or if they don't believe in ghosts because they've never seen compelling evidence for it. It has nothing to do with faith or spirituality.

I have absolutely no interest in religion. Even if a God appeared and proved his existsnce without a doubt, there's still no guarantee that I would follow that God's teachings. So no, it's not like a religion. It's about me making my own educated choices based on my life experience, along with the fact that I don't believe in things I don't believe in.

Every time the word belief is used, you can't liken it to an institution like religion. Religion does not have a monopoly on that term. We all believe and doubt various things every day of our lives. And we have been before religion was even invented. Religion goes much deeper than that.

I'm not saying that atheists should become or mirror a religion in the literal sense of that word but simply have the same rights as religions do. In a sense, it's a religious belief in my opinion and atheism should be protected by the very rights religions have.



Mummelmann on 20 April 2015
Dante9 said:
I would even go so far as to say that atheism is the default position of all newborn babies. It's not until someone teaches children about religion, or indoctrinates them, that religious notions are instilled in them.


That is not going far; that is a fact, we are not inherently religious from birth any more than we are loyal to political parties or have favorite sports teams or bands. See my posts earlier in the thread for my view on children and religion.



Aeolus451 on 20 April 2015
Ka-pi96 said:
Aeolus451 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

You what now? You're calling for athiests to be discriminated against unless they say they are religious?


What? How you getting that from what I wrote?

You're saying athiesm should be considered a religion so that athiests would have equal rights, basically implying they don't have equal rights otherwise.


I think that atheists don't have rights that are equal to religion in general. 



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Aeolus451 on 20 April 2015
Hiku said:
Aeolus451 said:

I'm not saying that atheists should become or mirror a religion in the literal sense of that word but simply have the same rights as religions do. In a sense, it's a religious belief in my opinion and atheism should be protected by the very rights religions have.

Look at my answer to your other post. Reclassifying something for those reasons doesn't make it right.
No one should focibly tell me that I'm religious. It's my right to chose to not be.
I'm not religious. And if you want to classify atheism as a religion, then don't call me an atheist. Call it whatever you want, but I'm not religious. No one is religious by default, and no one has a right to force me into it.


You're getting hung up on labels when that's not what I'm talking about. It's more about rights than the labels themselves. 



Zackasaurus-rex on 20 April 2015
ohmylanta1003 said:
Zackasaurus-rex said:
Religion drags the world backwards with all of its might.

It will die over time, of course. But there is tremendous merit in accelerating the process.


It really doesn't. There are so many other things in this world that are holding the world back more than religion.


Yes, indeed there are! The worst is our hierarchical system for distributing the means of production to an elite class.

 

But religion has proven itself an opiate, a tool for social control, and a hindrance to mainstream intellectual consciousness. As a result, it slows down the fight against all of those things which are indeed worse than religion. 

 

I don't make it my main fight (I am concerned with maximizing economic equality first and foremost), but I am happy to discuss religion when it comes up.



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ps3-sales! on 20 April 2015

"Religious people tell me how to live my life"

Solution: "as an atheist I should tell Christians how to live their life"

That's called a double standard to those who didn't go to college.



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IIIIITHE1IIIII on 20 April 2015
ps3-sales! said:
"Religious people tell me how to live my life"

Solution: "as an atheist I should tell Christians how to live their life"

That's called a double standard to those who didn't go to college.


And that's called a straw man.



Materia-Blade on 20 April 2015

Because religion = treating a fantasy story as if it were real. Such thing shouldn't be allowed.