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Forums - Politics Discussion - Obama's Continued War on Human Rights

mornelithe said:
NobleTeam360 said:

What does it matter if the gun in question can pierce body armor? Rifles are used in a very slim margin of crimes, so why is the government so desperate to ban them? The whole point of the 2nd amendment was to protect ourselves from a potentailly tryanical governement.

See, this is where the argument falls apart.  I can see the argument from self-defense from criminal aspects, and I most certainly agree that targeting a weapon (assault rifles) that aren't the main culprit (hand guns) makes zero sense to me.  But, a tyrranical Government?  Really?  That's your fallback?  In what world do you live in where a supposed 'tyrranical US Government' intent on killing you, would be stopped by armor piercing bullets fired from a gun of that caliber and range?  Nevermind helicopters, nevermind jets, nevermind a 50 caliber that could punch a hole through your house and still tear you to pieces, a single drone, or hell if they're 'tyrranical' a cruise missile taking out your entire block is a mere pittance to them.  Hell, they could just send in a few of the SWORD prototypes in, and lay waste.  Why would they care?  They're tyrranical.

Again, I do like guns...but that whole self defense thing against the Government mattered when black powder was cutting edge tech.  A group of citizens stands no chance against a US Gov't willing to forgo rules of engagement and constitutional law (no armed forces in US cities).  That's just how it is, unless we relax things even further and allow private citizens to purchase heavy weaponry en-masse.

Well the military and all of it's high tech weapons couldn't stop terrorists in Afghanistan, so I don't see a scenario where our beloved military could take on Americans. 

@ bolded, well they may be tyrannical, I don't think their goal would be to destroy the country. 



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mornelithe said:

 But, a tyrranical Government?  Really?  That's your fallback?  In what world do you live in where a supposed 'tyrranical US Government' intent on killing you, would be stopped by armor piercing bullets fired from a gun of that caliber and range?  

This ignores so much social-political context. 

1. Guerilla Warfare

2. Money (civil war => fewer taxes => less/no pay for military.) 

3. Civil War =/= War against another country. Military must kill family and friends over disagreement. I don't see that happening. 

4. External parties. Let's say the U.S is at war with another country AND there is a civil war. 

5. Personal interests - there will be people who are more targetted than others. Say, a politician. Having an armed citizenry is more frightening than having an unarmed citzenry for this despotic politician. 

Sure, if we think of it like U.S Government vs. Waco, then it seems hopeless, but there are real world and historical examples of political instability, and anybody who owns a weapon will be much safer in such a situation than anybody who doesn't. 

 



farlaff said:
OfficerRaichu15 said:

The world will never be safe dude

there are people out there thatll get a gun no matter what and take advantage of the defenless inncoents like you and me.


And with all due respect, Rai, how is responding violence with violence a good answer to that? There are way too many people taking their CoD games much seriously.


how do you respond to violence from your perspective then? with passivity?



sundin13 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
mornelithe said:

From what?  Is your avg citizen running into allot of situations with criminals wearing body armor?

What does it matter if the gun in question can pierce body armor? Rifles are used in a very slim margin of crimes, so why is the government so desperate to ban them? The whole point of the 2nd amendment was to protect ourselves from a potentailly tryanical governement.

There is no chance in hell that civilians could compete against the American military...that purpose is extremely outdated and fairly ridiculous in the modern context.

The American military can barely win wars in the middle east. I highly doubt they could take on Texas, let alone the entire country!



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farlaff said:
OfficerRaichu15 said:

The world will never be safe dude

there are people out there thatll get a gun no matter what and take advantage of the defenless inncoents like you and me.


And with all due respect, Rai, how is responding violence with violence a good answer to that? There are way too many people taking their CoD games much seriously.

So you rather let me die in a situation like that. 

I see



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NobleTeam360 said:

Well the military and all of it's high tech weapons couldn't stop terrorists in Afghanistan, so I don't see a scenario where our beloved military could take on Americans. 

@ bolded, well they may be tyrannical, I don't think their goal would be to destroy the country. 

Again, straw man, the military is bound by rules of engagement.  If they didn't, troops would never have been needed.  Merely level entire cities.  Or, biological/chemical agents.  Would've taken days to clear Afghanistan of most living things.



farlaff said:
OfficerRaichu15 said:

The world will never be safe dude

there are people out there thatll get a gun no matter what and take advantage of the defenless inncoents like you and me.


And with all due respect, Rai, how is responding violence with violence a good answer to that? There are way too many people taking their CoD games much seriously.

Erm you do realize people have owned guns far longer than when CoD  existed right? 



sc94597 said:
mornelithe said:

 But, a tyrranical Government?  Really?  That's your fallback?  In what world do you live in where a supposed 'tyrranical US Government' intent on killing you, would be stopped by armor piercing bullets fired from a gun of that caliber and range?  

This ignores so much social-political context. 

1. Guerilla Warfare

2. Money (civil war => fewer taxes => less/no pay for military.) 

3. Civil War =/= War against another country. Military must kill family and friends over disagreement. I don't see that happening. 

4. External parties. Let's say the U.S is at war with another country AND there is a civil war. 

5. Personal interests - there will be people who are more targetted than others. Say, a politician. Having an armed citizenry is more frightening than having an unarmed citzenry for this despotic politician. 

Sure, if we think of it like U.S Government vs. Waco, then it seems hopeless, but there are real world and historical examples of political instability, and anybody who owns a weapon will be much safer in such a situation than anybody who doesn't. 

 

Yeah, but my M1A will protect me far better than a puny AR-15, who cares?  It may as well be a .22.



spurgeonryan said:
I am tired of the children of America dying, also if it were not for guns Robin Williams may still be with us. I hate guns, hope he bans all gun ownership before he is out of office.


Banning abortion would be a better way to keep american children from dying.... not guns....



mornelithe said:
sc94597 said:

This ignores so much social-political context. 

1. Guerilla Warfare

2. Money (civil war => fewer taxes => less/no pay for military.) 

3. Civil War =/= War against another country. Military must kill family and friends over disagreement. I don't see that happening. 

4. External parties. Let's say the U.S is at war with another country AND there is a civil war. 

5. Personal interests - there will be people who are more targetted than others. Say, a politician. Having an armed citizenry is more frightening than having an unarmed citzenry for this despotic politician. 

Sure, if we think of it like U.S Government vs. Waco, then it seems hopeless, but there are real world and historical examples of political instability, and anybody who owns a weapon will be much safer in such a situation than anybody who doesn't. 

 

Yeah, but my M1A will protect me far better than a puny AR-15, who cares?  It may as well be a .22.

It is about how you and the people you collaborate use that M1A vs. the AR-15, just as much as the technology difference. Communists took over China despite their lesser technology, not the nationalists.