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Forums - Politics Discussion - Should Europe fear Islamism or embrace it

 

Is this poll racist

Yes racist you should be brought to court 19 8.19%
 
Yes, but in your right of freedom of speech 35 15.09%
 
Indifferent 16 6.90%
 
No 23 9.91%
 
Not at all, some of your points are valid 26 11.21%
 
Not at all this demographic problem is real 113 48.71%
 
Total:232

Why is this in the Gaming forum?



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Neither. Just like any religion, there are extremist links. People with low intelligence will believe everything they read on the Internet just like the nazis did about Jews (which also have extremist branches of their religion). The worst thing is that the majority, in the case seem to believe the falsehoods they read online. I don't need to fear "Islam" and I don't need to embrace it, just like I don't have to fear Christian extremists or embrace them. Why you draw all of the 1 billion Muslims into the question, I am unsure. There are entire nations of prosperous, peaceful Muslims. 



spemanig said:

Panther111 said:

Religion is mostly a set of laws, not much unlike the american constitution, but under the guise of so called higher powers and such.

a constituion might state that public drinking should be banned, because of so and so, and a religion might state the same, because its supposedly the gods will and such.

most religions are laws put into practice as to how one should live, and what not to do. And if you deter from the texts, you are breaking the code, or in a constituion, the law. 

If you break constitutional laws, you go to jail, if you break religious laws, you go to "hell". 

Problem arises when the constitutinal law, and the religious laws are opposing one another. And laws have little to do with culture.


Right. Good thing you don't have to opt in to being a Muslim, right? Making all their religious "laws" completely irrelevant to you. There's absolutely no problem with constitutunal and religious law opposing each other. There is no law forcing Muslims to eat pork or forcing non-muslims to read the Quran, right? So I'm sorry, but I'm not at all seeing the real issue.

I will give you an example slaughtering animals without sedating them is not legal in the Netherlands, except for when you're ritual slaughtering animals and cutting there troaths while they drown in their own blood you should watch a vidro about that, it is legalised animal cruelty. So there is mixing between laws which isn't to great not to argue about our rules how to treath homesexuals like any other being and the way certain religions look to homosexuals or jews for that matter.

Skip to 4:19 and tell me this is not fucking cruel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HF_0SkEl80



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Hate to break it to you but the US doesn't defend it's borders. we let hundreds of thousands of illegals in every year. terrorists could walk across our border easily and nobody would know about it.



Qwark said:

You've not read most it did you a greater ammount of mixing a single culture in Europe wih the Western one will mean a direct change of politics in Europe since our political system is based on political parties if large groups of muslims will vote for a big single muslim party or win votes by being muslim supportive that is possible in Europe or better said the way our politics work. When that happens and it probably will in one hundred years Europe will become a hybrid continent with a lot of friction between parties since people can't live all to well together when they are culturally different. Look at Israel, The Middle East, Africa to many (or some not very well mixing) cultures on a small area results in friction.

And then mixing cultures will convert to driving out the original ones like we did in the US, New Zealand and Canada and I take it you don't care to much for our Jews either since antisemitism is already going trough the roof, imagine a further mixing. We've accepted muslims best way we can yet thousands (4 or 5 by now) are fighting for IS right now well being born and raised in Europe and imagine what happens when they come back.  We've seen the events in Paris and Copenhagen, believing this will not happen again is delussive, yet taking a passport isn't possible anymore. 


...Or Europe will be a better continent with and acceptance of different cultures that can live together in harmony and accept each other's differences. Before segregation ended in the US, there was tension, violence and hostility, and there were a lot of people who thought the same things you're saying. Then it all worked out because people started acting like people. And now, the biggest racial issues in the U.S. would make MLK roll his eyes out of how inconsequential they seem compared to how things used to be.

Corruption is one thing, but embracing different culture is completely different. These people aren't evil; they're different.



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cfin2987@gmail.com said:

Neither. Just like any religion, there are extremist links. People with low intelligence will believe everything they read on the Internet just like the nazis did about Jews (which also have extremist branches of their religion). The worst thing is that the majority, in the case seem to believe the falsehoods they read online. I don't need to fear "Islam" and I don't need to embrace it, just like I don't have to fear Christian extremists or embrace them. Why you draw all of the 1 billion Muslims into the question, I am unsure. There are entire nations of prosperous, peaceful Muslims. 

I am not saying that there aren't peacefull muslims I am saying that a massive immigration to Europe could change Europe from a Western society to a hybrid Western-Muslim society. The Nazi's did not purely hate the jews for religion they believed they where better than jews and since jews had a huge ammount of money if was only a logical pick take there belongings and kill them. As I do not believe everything which stands online I kinda believe the CBS and newspapers and newsprograms since some leaders in Europeespecially Italy are seeing they can't handle the current situation. Immigration is a costly operation which is a long therm investment when you do it right, (if that is even possible) not how we are doing it now since anti semitism is rising, people are fighting for IS and of our costituional rights has been put in doubt.

Imagine what happens with a far greater pressure since most people are like sheep, but a very vocal and active party could come a long way as IS has proven by attracting broters from Europe to their so called state. There are entire nations of peacefull prosperous muslims and they state that way because they are sovereign, but put a sunit, a sjiet and a kurd in one country and see what happens, something like in Iraq. Christian influences in Europe are purely religious and they don't tend to mix with our laws as parties as al-sharia belgium have proved that a certain situation could become reality hat muslim rules and European laws mix when the percentages are right.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Qwark said:

I will give you an example slaughtering animals without sedating them is not legal in the Netherlands, except for when you're ritual slaughtering animals and cutting there troaths while they drown in their own blood you should watch a vidro about that, it is legalised animal cruelty. So there is mixing between laws which isn't to great not to argue about our rules how to treath homesexuals like any other being and the way certain religions look to homosexuals or jews for that matter.

Skip to 4:19 and tell me this is not fucking cruel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HF_0SkEl80


I hope you aren't seriously implying that that is how standard Halal killings are done. The whole point of Halal is that the killing is quick and that the animal feels as little pain as possible. And with most Halal sacrifices, the animals are stunned. Like almost 90% of them. I don't know where that video was shot, but I know Muslims that would be seriously offended for being misrepresented as cruel like that.



spemanig said:
Qwark said:

You've not read most it did you a greater ammount of mixing a single culture in Europe wih the Western one will mean a direct change of politics in Europe since our political system is based on political parties if large groups of muslims will vote for a big single muslim party or win votes by being muslim supportive that is possible in Europe or better said the way our politics work. When that happens and it probably will in one hundred years Europe will become a hybrid continent with a lot of friction between parties since people can't live all to well together when they are culturally different. Look at Israel, The Middle East, Africa to many (or some not very well mixing) cultures on a small area results in friction.

And then mixing cultures will convert to driving out the original ones like we did in the US, New Zealand and Canada and I take it you don't care to much for our Jews either since antisemitism is already going trough the roof, imagine a further mixing. We've accepted muslims best way we can yet thousands (4 or 5 by now) are fighting for IS right now well being born and raised in Europe and imagine what happens when they come back.  We've seen the events in Paris and Copenhagen, believing this will not happen again is delussive, yet taking a passport isn't possible anymore. 


...Or Europe will be a better continent with and acceptance of different cultures that can live together in harmony and accept each other's differences. Before segregation ended in the US, there was tension, violence and hostility, and there were a lot of people who thought the same things you're saying. Then it all worked out because people started acting like people. And now, the biggest racial issues in the U.S. would make MLK roll his eyes out of how inconsequential they seem compared to how things used to be.

Corruption is one thing, but embracing different culture is completely different. These people aren't evil; they're different.


Problem is people haven't handled diffence (since they don't like it all to much) very well the last 1000 years, no problems in the US you say the black community is still being discriminated, but they've sort a accepted it like women since 1980's. Recent events in Australia, Canada, Paris, Copenhagen have proven this isn't always the case with every culture. Take the Chinese culture they integrated in the US never to be botered by anyone. The problem with current imigration is that long not all of these people want to come here, like back in the eighties but they are forced to leave to a country due to violence and the recieving country has believes which can't be much different from there believes one certain areas not saying which are right, but that creates tension.

This tension can't simply be ignored, in that way cultural communities exist which don't want to specifically change but want to hold on to their old ways, which isn't a problem until they represent a significant part of a country like 10-15% which it will be in about a century with an own political party. And when everyone one ot those people do vote for parties like that because they actually have something to win, and a pretty big part of other people who can vote don'tl like now such a party could become pretty big. At that point religous rules and constitutional laws could mix and that wouldn't be appreciated that much since there has been a whole lot of hobo for something like ritual slaughtering which many people don't care to much about, or the black pete discussion for that matter. 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

spemanig said:
Qwark said:

You've not read most it did you a greater ammount of mixing a single culture in Europe wih the Western one will mean a direct change of politics in Europe since our political system is based on political parties if large groups of muslims will vote for a big single muslim party or win votes by being muslim supportive that is possible in Europe or better said the way our politics work. When that happens and it probably will in one hundred years Europe will become a hybrid continent with a lot of friction between parties since people can't live all to well together when they are culturally different. Look at Israel, The Middle East, Africa to many (or some not very well mixing) cultures on a small area results in friction.

And then mixing cultures will convert to driving out the original ones like we did in the US, New Zealand and Canada and I take it you don't care to much for our Jews either since antisemitism is already going trough the roof, imagine a further mixing. We've accepted muslims best way we can yet thousands (4 or 5 by now) are fighting for IS right now well being born and raised in Europe and imagine what happens when they come back.  We've seen the events in Paris and Copenhagen, believing this will not happen again is delussive, yet taking a passport isn't possible anymore. 


...Or Europe will be a better continent with and acceptance of different cultures that can live together in harmony and accept each other's differences. Before segregation ended in the US, there was tension, violence and hostility, and there were a lot of people who thought the same things you're saying. Then it all worked out because people started acting like people. And now, the biggest racial issues in the U.S. would make MLK roll his eyes out of how inconsequential they seem compared to how things used to be.

Corruption is one thing, but embracing different culture is completely different. These people aren't evil; they're different.

Is culture not too all incompassing to simply say that another culture in different and not better or worse in some ways?

I also think it's important to draw a line between muslims and Islam. Most muslims like christians in western nations have only a very superficial understanding of their religion and don't spend to much time focusing on the darker aspects of the text.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

First of, the OP mixes stuff together. Islamism and Islam are to radically different things. Second, do you really think that just because a person is Muslim, she it he automatically vote for an Islamic party? Also, we have several Christian parties in Europe and you don't seem to react to them the same way, even though people who have claimed themselves to be Christian has caused way worse tragedies than radical Muslims. I would say that the post is full unfounded judgement of people who happen to belong to one religion, and I think that mindset is wrong whether you direct it at Muslim, Christians, Jews, atheists or anyone else. Try to start seeing people as people instead, that could help you ALOT.