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Forums - Sports Discussion - 2015 MLS Thread: Major League Soccer enters 20th season

NewGuy said:
I really want to like and support MLS and see soccer grow in the US. However, truth be told, it is still a poor product. Once they raise the quality on the field, I will be sure to start watching it more closely.

1. I would say follow a club over a league.  Having an invested interest in outcomes makes matches 10x more exciting (least it does for me).  Go to a match, experience the atmosphere and realize what makes the sport special all over the world.

2. Level of play is improving and honestly outside a dozen or so league around the world MLS is very respectable. As someone who has watched Japanese, Australian, Danish, Scottish, and Bolivian matches at times it is fine to me vast majority of the matches.

3. The biggest thing I champion about MLS over other leagues people compare it to (speificially Europe) is that at the start of a season in MLS half of the clubs have legitimate hopes of lifting silver ware, compared to 2-4 in big European leagues.  This makes it far more engaging to me as through the year who will can shift. Right now Dallas has a great start, but maybe they slip up and Seattle or Los Angeles retakes position or Toronto makes a big move or someone else surprises us.

Of course I cannot convince you and appreciate you being nice about not being a fan.



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Augen said:
NewGuy said:
I really want to like and support MLS and see soccer grow in the US. However, truth be told, it is still a poor product. Once they raise the quality on the field, I will be sure to start watching it more closely.

1. I would say follow a club over a league.  Having an invested interest in outcomes makes matches 10x more exciting (least it does for me).  Go to a match, experience the atmosphere and realize what makes the sport special all over the world.

2. Level of play is improving and honestly outside a dozen or so league around the world MLS is very respectable. As someone who has watched Japanese, Australian, Danish, Scottish, and Bolivian matches at times it is fine to me vast majority of the matches.

3. The biggest thing I champion about MLS over other leagues people compare it to (speificially Europe) is that at the start of a season in MLS half of the clubs have legitimate hopes of lifting silver ware, compared to 2-4 in big European leagues.  This makes it far more engaging to me as through the year who will can shift. Right now Dallas has a great start, but maybe they slip up and Seattle or Los Angeles retakes position or Toronto makes a big move or someone else surprises us.

Of course I cannot convince you and appreciate you being nice about not being a fan.


1. amen

2. the level of play isnt that bad, sure they dont play like CL, but well not even all Clubs that qualify for CL play like CL.

3.  the MLS is completly love and meaningless, thats the problem.  the league system has big flaws.  there is nothing like 10k people start crying out loud because your team lost the last game and has to play liga 2 next year(or liga 3...) 



generic-user-1 said:


1. amen

2. the level of play isnt that bad, sure they dont play like CL, but well not even all Clubs that qualify for CL play like CL.

3.  the MLS is completly love and meaningless, thats the problem.  the league system has big flaws.  there is nothing like 10k people start crying out loud because your team lost the last game and has to play liga 2 next year(or liga 3...) 


On point 3 to me it depends on what you want out of a league.  The European model is one that celebrates greatness, while the North American model is one that celebrates competition.  From a neutral perspective it is amazing to watch a Bayern or Barcelona tear through another team 6-0.  However, the actual battle for a league champion has little suspense.  It is "fair" in the sense that the best win 95% of the time, but being that predictable grows weary if you follow a smaller club.  I honestly am really impressed by the commitment of friends I have in Europe who follow a Sankt Pauli or Getafe or Norwich.  They know they will NEVER win a championship unless some billionaire pours money into them like Chelsea or Manchester City or PSG.

I am not saying MLS is perfect, but for me it feels a bit more "fair" in the sense that if a side is bad it is mostly down to poor management, or rebuilding or injuries.  There is a wealth gap, but it is not so overwhelming that smaller club cannot make a move.  Take for example my own club, DC United, which in the midst of getting a new stadium has been more conservative in spending. In 2013 we finished bottom of the league, 19th, and yet due to some great moves in 2014 we finished 3rd.  This year players are older and have injuries so looking mid table or roughly 10-12th place.  I still have hope we can win something in the next ten years, and if we don't it won't be because we never had a chance.

Both systems have their merits, and I am likely biased due to being raised in the US.  I do prefer our model of competition that encourages smart player management over out spending an opponent.



Augen said:
generic-user-1 said:


1. amen

2. the level of play isnt that bad, sure they dont play like CL, but well not even all Clubs that qualify for CL play like CL.

3.  the MLS is completly love and meaningless, thats the problem.  the league system has big flaws.  there is nothing like 10k people start crying out loud because your team lost the last game and has to play liga 2 next year(or liga 3...) 


On point 3 to me it depends on what you want out of a league.  The European model is one that celebrates greatness, while the North American model is one that celebrates competition.  From a neutral perspective it is amazing to watch a Bayern or Barcelona tear through another team 6-0.  However, the actual battle for a league champion has little suspense.  It is "fair" in the sense that the best win 95% of the time, but being that predictable grows weary if you follow a smaller club.  I honestly am really impressed by the commitment of friends I have in Europe who follow a Sankt Pauli or Getafe or Norwich.  They know they will NEVER win a championship unless some billionaire pours money into them like Chelsea or Manchester City or PSG.

I am not saying MLS is perfect, but for me it feels a bit more "fair" in the sense that if a side is bad it is mostly down to poor management, or rebuilding or injuries.  There is a wealth gap, but it is not so overwhelming that smaller club cannot make a move.  Take for example my own club, DC United, which in the midst of getting a new stadium has been more conservative in spending. In 2013 we finished bottom of the league, 19th, and yet due to some great moves in 2014 we finished 3rd.  This year players are older and have injuries so looking mid table or roughly 10-12th place.  I still have hope we can win something in the next ten years, and if we don't it won't be because we never had a chance.

Both systems have their merits, and I am likely biased due to being raised in the US.  I do prefer our model of competition that encourages smart player management over out spending an opponent.

well the MLS system makes much right, but on the other hand it has some big problems.  in germany(europes most interresting big league, because tickets are cheap and you cant own more than 49% of a club) most of the clubs are real clubs, im own my club as much as every other club member, and i have as much voting rights as every other member.    and if we play ba, we could get demoted.  so games not just  count if you are on top, they count a lot more if you are realy deep down.

and we still have smart player management.  number 3 in the bundesliga is a realy small club with realy good management. and number 6 is even smaller...  on the other hand, we can be pretty sure that one big name will be demoted.

and than there is the DFB cup, where my lovely arminia is beating the shit out of much bigger clubs that are 2 divisions above...



Ka-pi96 said:

That's not quite true. Those kinds of teams have a great chance of winning a lower division championship, that and getting promoted to the top league is a great thing to celebrate for the fans. Besides that they always have a chance in the cups which can make those pretty interesting at times.

Besides, most of what you are talking about is the different youth/transfer/wage structures. There is no reason they couldn't keep that stuff the same as it is as well as have promotion/relegation.

That mentality is in large part the tiered system of having clubs every where.  Essentially profesisonal club in England are like professional/minor/collegiate/high school system of US all in one. 

Americans and Canadians have not been conditioned to cheer for winning the second or third division in professional sports.  I think relegation would be devastating for clubs far outweighs beenfits promotion would offer another. In fact promotion could be as deadly as sides are not equipped for new financial demands.  Honestly if promotion and relegation were introduced next year MLS would lose millions and could send the league into a death spiral.



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generic-user-1 said:

well the MLS system makes much right, but on the other hand it has some big problems.  in germany(europes most interresting big league, because tickets are cheap and you cant own more than 49% of a club) most of the clubs are real clubs, im own my club as much as every other club member, and i have as much voting rights as every other member.    and if we play ba, we could get demoted.  so games not just  count if you are on top, they count a lot more if you are realy deep down.

and we still have smart player management.  number 3 in the bundesliga is a realy small club with realy good management. and number 6 is even smaller...  on the other hand, we can be pretty sure that one big name will be demoted.

and than there is the DFB cup, where my lovely arminia is beating the shit out of much bigger clubs that are 2 divisions above...

I will say if there is any model in Europe I would follow, it would be Bundesliga.  It at least keeps supporters in mind, even though seeing Bayern dominate it over time.  I like each year someone surprising or challenging, but I wish the Meister at the end had more variety.

The focus in many leagues in Europe is top and bottom, as I said this pushes for excellence in club. Meanwhile we push for middle and top which encoruages competition.

We do have the US Open Cup (our DFB Cup) and while lower division side hasn't won it since 1999, my DC United finishing dead last in the league actually did win it in 2013 so we do have dimension of three pieces of dometic silver war to battle for.



Augen said:
Ka-pi96 said:

That's not quite true. Those kinds of teams have a great chance of winning a lower division championship, that and getting promoted to the top league is a great thing to celebrate for the fans. Besides that they always have a chance in the cups which can make those pretty interesting at times.

Besides, most of what you are talking about is the different youth/transfer/wage structures. There is no reason they couldn't keep that stuff the same as it is as well as have promotion/relegation.

That mentality is in large part the tiered system of having clubs every where.  Essentially profesisonal club in England are like professional/minor/collegiate/high school system of US all in one. 

Americans and Canadians have not been conditioned to cheer for winning the second or third division in professional sports.  I think relegation would be devastating for clubs far outweighs beenfits promotion would offer another. In fact promotion could be as deadly as sides are not equipped for new financial demands.  Honestly if promotion and relegation were introduced next year MLS would lose millions and could send the league into a death spiral.


distance is clearly important.  im pretty sure im faster in dortmund than some LA fans from LA nee from home to stadium, and i my hometown isnt that close to dortmund, but 100km on the autobahn is  hour at max and the most stadiums are realy close to autobahn exits.

so it doesnt realy matter if i get tired of division 3 or not.



NYC was handed their first loss, 0-1, by Kansas City earlier. I thought the team played well considering all the key players who weren't playing (Villa, Nemec, Shelton, Velasquez). There was another nice crowd in Yankee Stadium, 27k, for a very cold game.



"On my business card I am a corporate president. In my mind I am a game developer. But in my heart I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

Losing Villa was critical for them, it happens.

For DC United absolutely stole 3 points from Los Angeles in the 93rd minute.

Kaka was huge for Orlando making it 2-2 in Montreal.

Another note is Colorado are draw kings with three 0-0 draws. Worst side to watch right now in the league for me.



I've noticed many MLS teams have, or are, creating affiliate teams in the USL. But, I think they way they're going about it is terrible. They're just calling the teams "Seattle Sounders 2" or "New York Red Bulls II" and keeping the teams in their own cities.

What they should be doing is creating affiliate teams with their own unique names in nearby-areas where you want to foster fan support. Teams like DC and Philadelphia have the right idea with affiliates in Richmond and Harrisburg respectively.

It'd make sense for NYC to pursue affiliation with Rochester to foster fan support upstate (Rochester is currently affiliated with New England and NYC is affiliated with a team in NC).



"On my business card I am a corporate president. In my mind I am a game developer. But in my heart I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata