The main thing I've learnt is the term "Antipenultimate"

Lol, I hope that's not all you got out of it.

I'm not really sure what to say to this other than "Okay" and I'll agree with the general notion of 'it should be harder', but I'll say I personally found the mechanics of combat in Skyward Sword to be more engaging and free than the button prompts of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Not necessarily the motion control, but the plethora of moves and ways to use the sword as well as the visual cues of enemies. Also, the Cave of Ordeals in Twilight Princess is way, way harder (especially the second time through which doubles the amount of enemies) than the Savage Labyrinth, which is just as easy as the rest of Wind Waker. I do agree the Zelda series needs more of those kinds of dungeons.

I forgot to mention, great original post. It's nice to see people out efforts in.

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying, I do disagree with the thought out into Zelda 1's balancing. Yeah there were a lot of easy parts, but the game didn't have save states until the virtual console version, it would kick you back to the beginning of the level with no expendable items and three hearts forcing you to leave the dungeon and restock before attempting it again, in whole. There were rooms that were immensely difficult placed in mid-level dungeons that were almost as difficult as the final boss of the entire game. It is just a matter of throwing enough enemies on the screen, and while they are beatable, they are among the most difficult challenges in any Zelda game by far. Nothing in later games rivals them except for that death mountain dog person with the axes in Zelda 2.

Boy, that was a bit of a tiresome read, haha. It looks like we have someone who loves WW and is quite the show-off with this 3 heart runs, haha!

Sorry, I just kid. It was a good read and made me think about things I didn't consider, like combat in Zelda. Compared to other games like Souls, Zelda's combat system seems a bit on the simpler side, aside from WW and TP. You make a good point about the visual keys in WW. They were great and really helpful too, when you're starting a striking combo or make a block, it was really good.

I think that was in WW and not TP because of the styles. Since WW has a lighter, cartoonier style, those ques fit with the style, but also as a way to help the player. TP goes for a more serious tone, which something like this may have not worked so well (it can be argued it can, but I figured they chose to leave it out).

It would be great if learning new moves was something naturally through progression and not a hidden thing, such as maybe being taught after beating a dungeon or something. Though with Zelda Wii U, that would be a little hard to do while keeping the total freedom feel of the game. Maybe they can design certain enemies that are harder to beat without knowing a special move, to encourage exploration to find the special move to come back and beat the monster. I don't know if that is a good idea. I'm not a designer, haha...

Aside from that, that's all I got. I enjoyed reading this, and I hope Zelda has a bit of a mix of all these things. I want hordes of easier enemies to beat, and some tougher single battles which requires more thinking and understanding the enemy patterns to beat. I at least want to fight some iron knuckles in the next one! ; )

i'll be back.

I like the idea that hidden skills could make enemies more difficult if learned. I don't really think of how Zelda enemies worked harmoniously to provide difficulty but I think it's true! It made the classic 2D games more difficult and promoted more reflexive gameplay that was enjoyable.

I think one feature that recent 3D Zelda games lack (haven't played Skyward Sword or Majora) are traps and deterrents in dungeons. A Link to the Past had a variety of these in the game including plenty of spikes blocks, holes in floor that even send you a floor down to impede progress, blocks that shoot fireballs, a trail of fireball, invincible jnyxes that steal tiny amount of your magic and health, and moving floors.

And if you think about, dungeons are suppose to have traps and deterrents! The only dungeon that seemed to have plenty of traps and deterrents in 3D Zelda was the Shadow/Sheikah temple in Ocarina of Time (haven't played MM or SS). 3D Zelda games seem to replace traps and deterrents with puzzles instead. However I think a good balance between traps, deterrents, and puzzles would make 3D Zelda dungeons more challenging and new!

Edit: Sorry for not formatting my wall of text earlier!

Death isn't the only measure for challenge in a game and I really do think it is overstated. If I get into a situation where I feel like I am overwhelmed or I really have to think, I will be put in a situation that I consider challenging, even if I then have a flawless run of the area. I think there have been numerous times in Zelda games when I have felt that challenge, be it walking into a boss room and thinking "what do I do" for a minute or two, or every time I faced a Stalfos in Skyward Sword. Then you have puzzle/traversal difficulty, which is a whole other thing.

I do agree that difficulty needs to be ramped up and these moments don't happen frequently enough, but I don't think changing the fairy system has anything to do with that.

i didn't really read the OP i'll just say this,..


...zelda doesn't need a complex combat system akin to DMC or whatever. simple combat can be okay sometimes. looking back at my personal favorite zelda (a link to the past) all i could do was 1. sword 2. charge sword 3. run with sword. that was enough because the was a great variety of enemies that made those 3 things still feel quite varied.

i think in the newer zeldas (at least the ones i've played) the variety in enemies isn't as good and that is really where people are criticizing zelda's combat.

also, the old zeldas had cooler bosses. it's the bosses in MM that makes it one of my favorites. TP, WW had shit for bosses compared to MM. it's amazing how much a satisfying boss can do to make an entire game feel satisfying.

I do think you've isolated exactly what made old Zelda combat difficult. Enemy aggression was only a small part of it, enemy variety is a bigger thing. It happens in Monster Hunter as well, where the lesser wyverns can become a big danger when combined with a full-fledged Monster in the room. The insectoid Bnhabra, for instance, have a sting which can cause total paralysis for critical moments if they sneak up on you, or a projectile they can shoot that brings a defense (i think?) debuff. These enemies are such a non-threat by themselves, but add a lot of danger to an already dangerous fight with the monsters.

In Zelda's case, of course, no one enemy is as dangerous as Tetsucabra or any other Monster, but then the lesser enemies are also more aggressive, and there can be more of them.