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Forums - Politics Discussion - Vaccination mediatic blitz

Bfriedli said:
curl-6 said

Herd Immunity?  Please make an excuse for this where 100% were vaccinated with measles vacine and still over 50% got measles.  http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm?mobile=nocontent  

Iam just showing others that don't know why some don't vacinate or partial vacinate reasons why and a differnt point of view.  We can go back and forth tell the end of days on both of our reasoning and Again this is about forcing people to get vacines without a choice not about banning vacines and Again ZERO MEASEALES DEATHS IN USA IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.  Yes partialy due to vacines but also cleaner society and way better health care. Also measles clears up on its own and was purposely spead like chickenpox was when I was a kid once you get it shouldn't get it again.  Measles is not DEADLY, it when the 6% infected get Pneumonia that's when the Pneumonia can kill elderly or infants WITHOUT going to hospital. 

http://www.sfcdcp.org/measles.html

 

 



 http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm?mobile=nocontent  

If the students had not been vaccinated, those 21 cases could have been 200, and more severe ones as well, as even diminished immunity is associated with milder illness.

This case is an example of herd immunity limiting the scope of an outbreak.

Measles IS a deadly disease. It killed 145,000 people in 2013 alone; about 400 every day. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

From your link:

"About 1 in 1,000 people with measles get encephalitis, a serious brain infection. Measles illness during pregnancy can cause early labor, miscarriage, and low birth weight infants. Measles in people with AIDS or weak immune systems can be very severe. In the U.S. people can still die from measles (about 2 per 1,000, usually related to pneumonia or encephalitis)."



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Bfriedli said:
curl-6 said

Herd Immunity?  Please make an excuse for this where 100% were vaccinated with measles vacine and still over 50% got measles.  http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm?mobile=nocontent  

Iam just showing others that don't know why some don't vacinate or partial vacinate reasons why and a differnt point of view.  We can go back and forth tell the end of days on both of our reasoning and Again this is about forcing people to get vacines without a choice not about banning vacines and Again ZERO MEASEALES DEATHS IN USA IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.  Yes partialy due to vacines but also cleaner society and way better health care. Also measles clears up on its own and was purposely spead like chickenpox was when I was a kid once you get it shouldn't get it again.  Measles is not DEADLY, it when the 6% infected get Pneumonia that's when the Pneumonia can kill elderly or infants WITHOUT going to hospital. 

http://www.sfcdcp.org/measles.html

 

 



Over 50%? Only 3.9% of the student population got measles. Where are you getting your over 50% number?

Also, can you really say that measles isn't deadly if it causes other diseases/complications which can be deadly as curl pointed out? 



curl-6 said:
Bfriedli said:


 http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm?mobile=nocontent  

If the students had not been vaccinated, those 21 cases could have been 200, and more severe ones as well, as even diminished immunity is associated with milder illness.

This case is an example of herd immunity limiting the scope of an outbreak.

Measles IS a deadly disease. It killed 145,000 people in 2013 alone; about 400 every day. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

From your link:

"About 1 in 1,000 people with measles get encephalitis, a serious brain infection. Measles illness during pregnancy can cause early labor, miscarriage, and low birth weight infants. Measles in people with AIDS or weak immune systems can be very severe. In the U.S. people can still die from measles (about 2 per 1,000, usually related to pneumonia or encephalitis)."

Lol.  Limiting the outbreak, true but this shows it doesn't work!! Sorry to typo 5% too, not 50%. 
Again for the millionth time, talking about USA NOT WORLD NUMBERS!! We have acess to medical and extremly cleaner living condition.  And in the USA there has been around 1800 cases in the last 15 years.  So 1 person in the last 15 years got encephalitis.  Compared to over 100 deaths from the measles vacine. JUST CLARIFYING AGAIN USA ONLY.  

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/opinion-search



Bfriedli said:
curl-6 said:

 http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm?mobile=nocontent  

If the students had not been vaccinated, those 21 cases could have been 200, and more severe ones as well, as even diminished immunity is associated with milder illness.

This case is an example of herd immunity limiting the scope of an outbreak.

Measles IS a deadly disease. It killed 145,000 people in 2013 alone; about 400 every day. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

From your link:

"About 1 in 1,000 people with measles get encephalitis, a serious brain infection. Measles illness during pregnancy can cause early labor, miscarriage, and low birth weight infants. Measles in people with AIDS or weak immune systems can be very severe. In the U.S. people can still die from measles (about 2 per 1,000, usually related to pneumonia or encephalitis)."

Lol.  Limiting the outbreak, true but this shows it doesn't work!! Sorry to typo 5% too, not 50%. 
Again for the millionth time, talking about USA NOT WORLD NUMBERS!! We have acess to medical and extremly cleaner living condition.  And in the USA there has been around 1800 cases in the last 15 years.  So 1 person in the last 15 years got encephalitis.  Compared to over 100 deaths from the measles vacine. JUST CLARIFYING AGAIN USA ONLY.  

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/opinion-search

How about you take a look over to Germany to see where we could go if we allow vaccination rates to drop. There are about 122-2308 cases of measles each year in Germany, some fatal, and the population of the USA is about 4x theirs. This would mean rates equivalent to 500-9000 cases each year. According to curl's stats, 1/1000 get encephalitis and 2/1000 cases are fatal (in the US). This would mean a rate of about 1-18 deaths per year if we allow vaccination rates to drop. Germany isn't some third world country...

http://www.dw.de/measles-rise-sparks-vaccine-debate-in-germany/a-16932413

In just the last 4 months in Germany, there have been 375 cases of measles...this is a real problem

http://www.dw.de/berlin-outbreak-blasts-hopes-of-eradicating-measles-in-germany-by-2015/a-18235648

PS: In some limited number of cases, the vaccine doesn't result in full immunity, which is just another reason why herd immunity is important. We need to keep our percentages above the herd immunity threshold to protect those who can't get vaccinated and those who didn't gain full immunity.



Bfriedli said:

Lol.  Limiting the outbreak, true but this shows it doesn't work!! Sorry to typo 5% too, not 50%. 
Again for the millionth time, talking about USA NOT WORLD NUMBERS!! We have acess to medical and extremly cleaner living condition.  And in the USA there has been around 1800 cases in the last 15 years.  So 1 person in the last 15 years got encephalitis.  Compared to over 100 deaths from the measles vacine. JUST CLARIFYING AGAIN USA ONLY.  

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/opinion-search

Completely untrue about the hundred deaths from the measles vaccine. 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/mmrdeaths.asp
Specifically the 100 deaths statistic's source is from data from VAERS.

When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

 

People need to understand that the reason measles death rates and contraction rates are low is because it has been nearly irradicated thanks to the vaccine. The number of measles cases right now are fairly insignificant. What would be a problem is if more and more illinformed parents decide against vaccinating their kids for non allergy related reasons and cause the measles rate to continue to increase. 
http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/graph-us-measles-cases

And more importantly what would be the biggest problem is if people start avoiding vaccinations for more serious viruses. This is a good explination for why we should not stop vaccinating against viruses that have been erradicated in the US. Measles is just a very good example showing how a virus all but irradicated in the US can start coming back.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm

I understand I will probably never convince everyone because some people have already made up their minds. But I urge people on the fence to look for actual scientific articles, check sources carefully, and not fall for misleading statistics. This is mostly done by cherry picking specific numbers and flat out not understand what certain numbers actually impy. A very good example of this is the original poster's claim that the measles vaccine caused 100 deaths in the past 10 years.

Thankfully a majority of people still choose to vaccinate and as long as that continues it won't be a huge issue for a small group of people to avoid vaccinations. We might have to deal with small outbreaks every now and than but to be honest there are a lot more pressing things to worry about. We just need to make sure that the amount of people who avoid vaccinations stays small and everyone both vaccinated and not will be fairly unlikely to catch these viruses.

For more information the CDC has a lot of information and I also encourage people to read the actual references they list.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Autism/antigens.html
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/meas.html
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism/



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Bfriedli said:
curl-6 said:

 http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm?mobile=nocontent  

If the students had not been vaccinated, those 21 cases could have been 200, and more severe ones as well, as even diminished immunity is associated with milder illness.

This case is an example of herd immunity limiting the scope of an outbreak.

Measles IS a deadly disease. It killed 145,000 people in 2013 alone; about 400 every day. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

From your link:

"About 1 in 1,000 people with measles get encephalitis, a serious brain infection. Measles illness during pregnancy can cause early labor, miscarriage, and low birth weight infants. Measles in people with AIDS or weak immune systems can be very severe. In the U.S. people can still die from measles (about 2 per 1,000, usually related to pneumonia or encephalitis)."

Lol.  Limiting the outbreak, true but this shows it doesn't work!! Sorry to typo 5% too, not 50%. 
Again for the millionth time, talking about USA NOT WORLD NUMBERS!! We have acess to medical and extremly cleaner living condition.  And in the USA there has been around 1800 cases in the last 15 years.  So 1 person in the last 15 years got encephalitis.  Compared to over 100 deaths from the measles vacine. JUST CLARIFYING AGAIN USA ONLY.  

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/opinion-search

It shows no such thing. Without it, the virus would have spread through those school like wildfire instead of only affecting a small number, and mild cases could have been life theatening ones instead. Over 400 students were at the school, and only about 5% of those were infected. That's incredibly low considering that without immunity, 90% of people sharing a space with a Measles carrier will catch it.

And the 100 deaths from the vaccine was already debunked by another poster above me.

The only reason Measles cases and deaths in the US are so low is because of extensive vaccination. 1 in 500 Measles cases is fatal in the US. If vaccination keeps the case count low, that means no deaths. Once vaccination rates drop, case counts go up, and with it the likelihood of deaths.



Free choice to vaccinate. But if you do not vaccinate your children, better stay away from me and my family.



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WorldBreakerHulk said:

How measles made a comeback from scishow

http://youtu.be/kjFPUoIXd80



Part 2 - The Science of Anti-Vaccination

http://youtu.be/Rzxr9FeZf1g

 

Watchmojo

10 Anti-Vaccine Movement Facts

http://youtu.be/XrXzkPygrCo



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sundin13 said:
Bfriedli said:

Lol.  Limiting the outbreak, true but this shows it doesn't work!! Sorry to typo 5% too, not 50%. 
Again for the millionth time, talking about USA NOT WORLD NUMBERS!! We have acess to medical and extremly cleaner living condition.  And in the USA there has been around 1800 cases in the last 15 years.  So 1 person in the last 15 years got encephalitis.  Compared to over 100 deaths from the measles vacine. JUST CLARIFYING AGAIN USA ONLY.  

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/opinion-search

How about you take a look over to Germany to see where we could go if we allow vaccination rates to drop. There are about 122-2308 cases of measles each year in Germany, some fatal, and the population of the USA is about 4x theirs. This would mean rates equivalent to 500-9000 cases each year. According to curl's stats, 1/1000 get encephalitis and 2/1000 cases are fatal (in the US). This would mean a rate of about 1-18 deaths per year if we allow vaccination rates to drop. Germany isn't some third world country...

http://www.dw.de/measles-rise-sparks-vaccine-debate-in-germany/a-16932413

In just the last 4 months in Germany, there have been 375 cases of measles...this is a real problem

http://www.dw.de/berlin-outbreak-blasts-hopes-of-eradicating-measles-in-germany-by-2015/a-18235648

PS: In some limited number of cases, the vaccine doesn't result in full immunity, which is just another reason why herd immunity is important. We need to keep our percentages above the herd immunity threshold to protect those who can't get vaccinated and those who didn't gain full immunity.

the most cases come from schools for children of very special parents.  rightwing, organic,vegan,alternative medicine.

homeopathy is very strong in the group of the highr educated without proper scientific education.