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Forums - Sony Discussion - Bloodborne | Chalice Dungeons - Explained!

I understand that everyone in this thread apparently thinks that I am the biggest idiot in the world. I am not a stupid person. I understand logic and reason. I don't see hack-and-slash being able to be defined as "juggling enemies", or "getting large combos". In my eyes the videos that DerNebel posted above look identical in terms of how the characters are attacking. That is what constitutes a hack-and-slash game. You hack... and you slash. That's what the Devil May Cry video showed. That's what the Bayonetta video that I looked up showed. That's what the Bloodborne video that DerNebel posted above showed. To me it seems like everyone has their own idea as to what does, and does not, constitute a hack-and-slash game. If juggling enemies and getting large combos is what makes it hack-and-slash, then Disgaea is a hack-and-slash game. In Bloodborne your character is a little slower than in Devil May Cry. But the character is still hacking... and slashing. I don't think playing every game in the world will help me see the logic of the posters in this thread, because the only logic I have heard is opinion. Opinions are fine. I have my opinion. In my opinion "juggling" and "combos" have nothing to do with the word "hack" or "slash", nor does the character speed. I'm not attacking anyone. Everyone is attacking me for having an opinion. I already said that it's okay if people don't agree with me. But apparently everyone has to keep telling me that I'm wrong, even though there isn't any providable fact that says this.



 

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IFireflyl said:

I understand that everyone in this thread apparently thinks that I am the biggest idiot in the world. I am not a stupid person. I understand logic and reason. I don't see hack-and-slash being able to be defined as "juggling enemies", or "getting large combos". In my eyes the videos that DerNebel posted above look identical in terms of how the characters are attacking. That is what constitutes a hack-and-slash game. You hack... and you slash. That's what the Devil May Cry video showed. That's what the Bayonetta video that I looked up showed. That's what the Bloodborne video that DerNebel posted above showed. To me it seems like everyone has their own idea as to what does, and does not, constitute a hack-and-slash game. If juggling enemies and getting large combos is what makes it hack-and-slash, then Disgaea is a hack-and-slash game. In Bloodborne your character is a little slower than in Devil May Cry. But the character is still hacking... and slashing. I don't think playing every game in the world will help me see the logic of the posters in this thread, because the only logic I have heard is opinion. Opinions are fine. I have my opinion. In my opinion "juggling" and "combos" have nothing to do with the word "hack" or "slash", nor does the character speed. I'm not attacking anyone. Everyone is attacking me for having an opinion. I already said that it's okay if people don't agree with me. But apparently everyone has to keep telling me that I'm wrong, even though there isn't any providable fact that says this.

Actually I agree with you. Bloodborne is, essentially, a hack and slash role playing game. The focus is on the hand to hand combat, but the difference that Bloodborne has with DMC or Bayonneta is that those two don't have role-playing elements.

Aside from that you are basically right, Bloodborne is a hack and slash role playing game.



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

Anfebious said:

Actually I agree with you. Bloodborne is, essentially, a hack and slash role playing game. The focus is on the hand to hand combat, but the difference that Bloodborne has with DMC or Bayonneta is that those two don't have role-playing elements.

Aside from that you are basically right, Bloodborne is a hack and slash role playing game.

That is exactly why I would classify this as an Action-RPG, Hack-And-Slash game. That's the point I made earlier when I said that games have multiple genre's, but I got some heat from it, because apparently people don't want hack-and-slash to be a description for this game for reasons that are beyond me.



 

IFireflyl said:

I am not claiming to be an expert. I'm just saying the only definition that I found for hack-and-slash seems to fit this type of gameplay. This looks like a (better) variation of Diablo to me, and that was considered a hack-and-slash type game. This game also seems to have the Devil May Cry 4 feel to the battle system, and you defined that as a hack-and-slash game. I'm not sure why you're being so defensive. I'm not attacking you. I'm just saying the information I am finding would say this game would be considered a hack-and-slash game. If you don't agree, you don't agree.


DIABLO IS A DUNGEON CRAWLER. IT IS NOT A HACK AND SLASH game.

I'm done. I can't. If seven examples with definitive glaring similarities to each other, not at all present in Bloodborn isn't proof enough, nothing is. 

"This game also seems to have the Devil May Cry 4 feel to the battle system"

No, it absolutely does not. They are completely different. Even Punch Out is a more apt example of the combat system in Bloodborn than Devil May Cry. The combat system in Devil May Cry's, and all of the hack-n-slash games I mentioned, is focused on chaining combos, flashy moves, and arcade-like gameplay. They have combat mechanics inspired by fighting games, and the entire purpose of those games is to make the combat feel as deep, complex, and cathardic as possible.

NOTHING like that is in Bloodborne. The combat isn't the point; it's the tool. Your warped definition of "hack n slash" literally includes any game with combat in it. Hack n Slash games are akin to fighting games in function and execution, only it's focused on single player while fighting games focus on multiplayer. If Devil May Cry is Street Fighter 2's story mode, Bloodborne is Zelda 2. You're figuratively calling Bloodborne a fighting game. That's literally how completely innacurate calling Bloodborne a hack-n-slash is. Do you get that?

It's not something you do or don't "agree" on. Catagorization isn't an opinion. There are objective functions at play here. I'm not being defensive. I just hate when people miscatagorize things.



IFireflyl said:
Anfebious said:

Actually I agree with you. Bloodborne is, essentially, a hack and slash role playing game. The focus is on the hand to hand combat, but the difference that Bloodborne has with DMC or Bayonneta is that those two don't have role-playing elements.

Aside from that you are basically right, Bloodborne is a hack and slash role playing game.

That is exactly why I would classify this as an Action-RPG, Hack-And-Slash game. That's the point I made earlier when I said that games have multiple genre's, but I got some heat from it, because apparently people don't want hack-and-slash to be a description for this game for reasons that are beyond me.

Well some people might get mad when you compare Bloodborne and DMC because they are very different experiences.



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

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IFireflyl said:
GribbleGrunger said:
IFireflyl said:

I am not wrong. If you can prove to me how I am wrong I will concede. I have given you examples of definitions/games that show that I have a valid point. You have said that I am wrong because you want me to be wrong. The one example you gave (Devil May Cry) has a battle system that is almost exactly like Bloodborne, yet somehow Devil May Cry is a hack-and-slash game, but Bloodborne is not? Your logic doesn't add up, and I will not admit that I am wrong to "faulty" logic.

You are the only person I've ever come across in ALL the threads on ALL the forums that thinks this is a hack and slash. We're discussing this RPG elsewhere at this very moment. And here's a little something for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodborne

You clearly couldn't move along.

You just wanted to tell me I'm wrong because you think I'm wrong. You have given me no proof of anything.

Edit: And you still haven't explained how this gameplay is different from Devil May Cry which you cited as a hack-and-slash game. How is this gameplay different? Please tell me?

from your wiki link: "Hack and slash or hack and slay, abbreviated H&S or HnS, refers to a type of gameplay that emphasizes combat"

games like GoW and DMC are considered because the list of combat abilities looks like this.   it's long and full of combo options.

in the souls series that list is condensed to this: weak attack is R1.  Strong attack is R2.

the souls series has great combat in it but clearly isn't emphasizing combat.  there is a heavy emphasis on exploration and stategy.  that's what makes souls and bloodborne not a hack and slash.  it's an action rpg or maybe just an action game depending on your view of the rpg elements which are (to be honest) quite lite in the series.

 

also dungen crawling isn't really a genre.  genre's typically refer to the gameplay the user does,.. shooting, fighting, racing, ect.   dungen crawling can be done in many genres and is more like "cinematic".  you could have a cinematic shooter or cinematic rpg or cinematic action adventure game.  it describes the environments not the user interaction.  if anything is a sub-classification of a genre.



Anfebious said:

Actually I agree with you. Bloodborne is, essentially, a hack and slash role playing game. The focus is on the hand to hand combat, but the difference that Bloodborne has with DMC or Bayonneta is that those two don't have role-playing elements.

Aside from that you are basically right, Bloodborne is a hack and slash role playing game.


NO. Darksiders is a hack and slash RPG. Bloodborn is a dungeon crawler with RPG elements.



spemanig said:
IFireflyl said:

I am not claiming to be an expert. I'm just saying the only definition that I found for hack-and-slash seems to fit this type of gameplay. This looks like a (better) variation of Diablo to me, and that was considered a hack-and-slash type game. This game also seems to have the Devil May Cry 4 feel to the battle system, and you defined that as a hack-and-slash game. I'm not sure why you're being so defensive. I'm not attacking you. I'm just saying the information I am finding would say this game would be considered a hack-and-slash game. If you don't agree, you don't agree.


DIABLO IS A DUNGEON CRAWLER. IT IS NOT A HACK AND SLASH game.

I'm done. I can't. If seven examples with definitive glaring similarities to each other, not at all present in Bloodborn isn't proof enough, nothing is. 

"This game also seems to have the Devil May Cry 4 feel to the battle system"

No, it absolutely does not. They are completely different. Even Punch Out is a more apt example of the combat system in Bloodborn than Devil May Cry. The combat system in Devil May Cry's, and all of the hack-n-slash games I mentioned, is focused on chaining combos, flashy moves, and arcade-like gameplay. They have combat mechanics inspired by fighting games, and the entire purpose of those games is to make the combat feel as deep, complex, and cathardic as possible.

NOTHING like that is in Bloodborne. The combat isn't the point; it's the tool. Your warped definition of "hack n slash" literally includes any game with combat in it. Hack n Slash games are akin to fighting games in function and execution, only it's focused on single player while fighting games focus on multiplayer. If Devil May Cry is Street Fighter 2's story mode, Bloodborne is Zelda 2. You're figuratively calling Bloodborne a fighting game. That's literally how completely innacurate calling Bloodborne a hack-n-slash is. Do you get that?

It's not something you do or don't "agree" on. Catagorization isn't an opinion. There are objective functions at play here. I'm not being defensive. I just hate when people miscatagorize things.

Dude Diablo is a point and click game.



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

Damn it, people. Anyone who's played a Souls game knows that it's not a hack-n-slash game. Also, if you're playing as a magic-user, what then?



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