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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Pokken might be the 3D Pokemon action game many fans dreamed of.

"The competitive fighting game genre has acuminated into what many people might see as a hardcore way of playing, but originally, it was a genre that was enjoyed in a wider range.

This time, with Pokkén Tournament, rather than it being a competitive fighter, it is a competitive action game, as we’re bringing it back to the roots of action and competitive games, by developing it into something that can be ‘enjoyed in a wider range’." - Katsuhiro Hareda

Hareda, from the get go, has tried to refrain from calling this game a fighting game. Instead, it's an "action" game that is also competitive. There are definitely some clear influences from both the Tekken and the Ninja Storm games (and another game, which I'll allaborate on later), but I think they want Pokken to be a different beast all it's own, much like Smash. Smash is really a party brawler, not a fighting game, and I think they want the same kind of thing here. It's sheild system is actually quite like Smash's, too.

When ever I say that Smash isn't a fighting game, a lot of people get offended, as if that's saying it's not competitive, or doesn't take skill to be good at, but that's not the case. It just has a different structure that fighting games that makes it something different, like Kart Racers as opposed to racing sims. I think Pokken is going to be a similar thing. As much as it seemed like Pokken was going to be a traditional fighting game, it seems more and more like that's not going to be the case. Instead, I think they wanted to build a 3D action game with the competitive depth of a fighting game. You know, like how Pokemon is a turn-based RPG that is somehow also harshly deep and competitive?

In a thread I made once saying that Nintendo should make an open world Pokemon hack'n'slash game for the Wii U, I actually suggested this. Hack'n'slash games are synonymous with 3D "action" games. They are the same thing. The reason why I specifically said that the game should be a hack'n'slash/action game is because these are 3D games that are structured in a similar way to fighting games. You build combos, expend meters, blah blah. But while action games are stuctured around single player, fighting games are built around multiplayer. Pokemon does both. That's why, in that thread, I suggested that for that hypothetical game, Nintendo also hire a compitent fighting game director who could balance the Pokemon out. Little did I know that Pokken was doing just that.

And don't get me wrong, Pokken still strays closer to a fighting game in a lot of ways. The biggest is that it's contained in an arena. But that got me thinking "so is Pokemon." In Pokemon, you're challenged to a battle, and brought to an arena. Action games are also not switched to a 2D view mid battle, but that can just be scene as a unique mechanic in Pokken if you're looking at it from an action perspective instead of a fighting game one. You also don't have a lot of action games that force lock on, but one that is actually eerily similar to this is actially PokePark/Pokepark 2 on the Wii.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cRdHh1p8RE&spfreload=10

If you look at the gameplay I showed above, there's undoubtably an uncanny resemblance. 3rd person, behind the back camera. Automatic lock-on with no way to toggle it off. Circular arena with clear, visual markers showing the boundries. Enemy's health bar is on the upper right. Player's health bar is on the lower left. Now of course, those games are painfully simple by comparison to Pokken, and there are some obviously major differences like the lack of the 2D transition, but even the assist-Pokemon system is in that game, and the icon is in the exact same place. Also, you stupidly move on a 3d plain with the dpad, instead of an analog stick here too.

When those games came out, there was a lot of people saying that they wished a Pokemon could expand on the battle foundation of those games. I think it's obvious that Pokken does that. The more and more I anylize this game, the more and more I realize that this is probably going to be the Pokemon action game with "real time combat where you control the Pokemon from behind the back in 3rd person" that a lot of people have been asking for since Pokemon started as a franchise.

It was most likely never going to happen that a game like this included every Pokemon, but I can see this starting a platform, from which they will forever continue to add more and more Pokemon, just like with the RPGs. They already want this to be an ongoing series. We even have hints that this takes place in a far away region called Ferrum. They could, very realistically, keep on adding new DLC packs or making more games in the series where they add like 20 or so Pokemon each time, just like what the RPGs do.

It may be too early to expect an open world in this series, but it's not like it couldn't happen, especially in the home console version. The Naruto Ninja Storm games do something similar. In fact, PokePark does something similar. It wouldn't even need to be this massive open world. Just a small region in a similar vain where the goal isn't to catch Pokemon, but to train and battle them. Pokepark does an absolutely fantastic job of doing this. The world feels open enough to be explorable, but not massive enough to over shadow the main games.

If they structure Pokken like the Pokepark games for the single player, and like they are now for the multiplayer, Pokemon could actually finally have the action game that a lot people have been been begging for for almost two decades. A Pokemon game where battles are "like the TV show." A lot of fans were slightly dissapointed to hear that those 3D images were probably not going to be part of a big Pokemon console game, but a fighting game instead, because it meant a larger wait for that "like the anime" game. Thinking about it again, we might not have been so right.

Things like evolution don't really need to matter for Pokken. They just need to make as many fully evolved Pokemon available as they can for battle. They can stucture a narrative like Colleseum or XD for the battles. That means no wild battles, but a lot of trainer battles, which would fit a game like this, as it explains away why you can't just use any Pokemon.

Lastly, pay attention to something. The arcade game is called Pokken Tournament. But Nintendo trademarked two names. Pokken Tournament and Pokken Fighters. Tournament is specific. There is only one thing you do in a Tournament, and that is compete. That works very well for an arcade game. But then there's Pokken Fighters. Much more broad. It isn't as much about the competition, but the competitors. Now I think a lot of people assumed that the arcade game would be Tournament while the Wii U game would just be a vanilla port of it and be called Pokken Fighters. But is that really the case? We could be very harshly downplaying what this game will turn into.

Think about amiibo for a second. It's meant to transfer info between game and amiibo. There was an only Pokemon arcade game that did something similar called Pokemon Battrio, where you would buy these chips and download your Pokemon onto them to battle at the arcades. Then a 3DS version came out, and you could use those same chips to transfer information between versions. Nintendo could make a line of Amiibo just for Pokken Tournament in arcades, and have you transfer that information back to your copy of Pokken Fighters at home. You bring your Pokemon from Pokken Fighters to play in a focused Pokken Tournament at the arcades.

Now that opens a bunch of doors about why you'd want to bring Pokemon from one game to another. Who knows. Maybe there's a degree of moveset customization. If I'm correct, there's a feature in soul calibur that allows you to build your own character. A much more restrained version of that could be implemented in Pokken. Maybe more like what is present in Smash 4. We can see in the footage something that says "SLv. 1" next to all the Pokemon. "S Level 1?" Maybe there is a degree of training you can do for these Pokemon to unlock unique moves, move variations, and atributes. Nothing quite as deep as in the RPGs, but something a little deeper than what is typical of a game like this. You bring your trained fighters to the arcade and battle it out.

Even without something as big as Pokemon moveset customization, Pokken might not exactly be a fighting game, but it might be much, much more.

Also, Pokepark 2 is such an underrated game. Try it sometime.



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"Yes, I have thought of doing something new, and it makes me very excited to think of new elements for the game. This is just an idea, but as you know, Pokémon is a role-playing game. But, personally, I really like the action type of games, so we just talk about that sometimes. We probably want to add some kind action element to the game." - Junichi Masuda in 2009 to Gameinformer

That's from the Pokemon director himself. He was thinking about adding action elements to Pokemon games. An important thing to note is how he was talking about adding those elements to the RPGs. There have been a lot of action-type Pokemon games since that very interview, but none that do what he's talking about here. Adding action elements to a Pokemon RPG.



spemanig said:

"Yes, I have thought of doing something new, and it makes me very excited to think of new elements for the game. This is just an idea, but as you know, Pokémon is a role-playing game. But, personally, I really like the action type of games, so we just talk about that sometimes. We probably want to add some kind action element to the game." - Junichi Masuda in 2009 to Gameinformer

That's from the Pokemon director himself. He was thinking about adding action elements to Pokemon games. An important thing to note is how he was talking about adding those elements to the RPGs. There have been a lot of action-type Pokemon games since that very interview, but none that do what he's talking about here. Adding action elements to a Pokemon RPG.

Its interesting because watching that gameplay from Pokken I was imagining a pokemon battle system for an RPG where the 4 face buttons are your main attacks, you can change the nature of the attack depending on how long you hold down the button for. i.e tap for a quick watergun/squirt, hold for a more powerful version. Outside of your main attacks you'd be granted basic navigation and defence abilities, specifc to the pokemon, its natural abilities and its speed/defence attributes which you can obviously train. My immediate thoughts is that the handheld games should always be turned based, but I'd love to see a console interation of Stadium 3 incorporate real time action gameplay. Theres only so much a turn based system can do to bring Pokemon alive, watching the anime (which is now shit) you truly get a sense of how unqiue each pokemon and its behaviour/attributes are, this rarely translates in the actual games IMO. It will also finally allow environments to play a key part in battle, something the anime has always focused on but hasn't been fully recreated in the actual games.



I would love it if Pokmon added a traditional mode and action mode to their main rpg games. Action mode is like this and traditional mode is turn based. People would be able to change on the fly.



teigaga said:

Its interesting because watching that gameplay from Pokken I was imagining a pokemon battle system for an RPG where the 4 face buttons are your main attacks, you can change the nature of the attack depending on how long you hold down the button for. i.e tap for a quick watergun/squirt, hold for a more powerful version. Outside of your main attacks you'd be granted basic navigation and defence abilities, specifc to the pokemon, its natural abilities and its speed/defence attributes which you can obviously train. My immediate thoughts is that the handheld games should always be turned based, but I'd love to see a console interation of Stadium 3 incorporate real time action gameplay. Theres only so much a turn based system can do to bring Pokemon alive, watching the anime (which is now shit) you truly get a sense of how unqiue each pokemon and its behaviour/attributes are, this rarely translates in the actual games IMO. It will also finally allow environments to play a key part in battle, something the anime has always focused on but hasn't been fully recreated in the actual games.


While I wouldn't exactly compare Pokken to the stadium games, I do think that it is trying to take their place. Masuda was right; there's really no point to those games now that we have Pokemon battles in 3D. Pokken allows for a console Pokemon spin off that can still differenciate itself from the main series games.

A lot of people, including me, thought that mapping 4 different attacks to the face buttons seemed like a no brainer, but now that I've seen how Pokken does it, I see how that can overcomplicate things a bit. Truthfully, the Pokemon have plenty more attacks than the can in the RPG with less buttons. There were even things like Machamp with Bulk Up/Focus Energy, which is great to see. I'm not really a fan of the assist Pokemon concept, but I do think it's a clever way of including more Pokemon in the game.

I do think that XY did a great job of protraying the nature of each Pokemon species. The 3D animation really does work wonders, especially with little touchess like the affection bonuses in battle. Even though I think XY are some of the weakest games in the series, I've never felt more connected to my Pokemon individually.

With the inified platform, there really won't be a handheld or console only Pokemon game anymore, so I hope the games can rival each other in scale. You can tell that Genius Sonority tried to do that with Colloseum and XD, but I don't think they did a good job at all. The very nature of this game being an action fighting game instead of a turn-based one gives them a much better chance at succeeding, if they can keep the game feeling like an adventure.

Tekken 6 had a story driven single player campaign too, so it isn't like Hareda is opposed to exploration in a fighting game, even if it was very limited in that case.



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Samus Aran said:
I would love it if Pokmon added a traditional mode and action mode to their main rpg games. Action mode is like this and traditional mode is turn based. People would be able to change on the fly.


I think the fact that Nintendo is paying an entire company to make a completely different Pokemon game with action combat like this pretty much guarantees that that will never happen, lol. I think the main games will forever remain turn based, while action stuff will be relegated to spin offs.

That being said, Pokken is by far Pokemon's most serious attempt at a game or a system like this, which is extremely exciting, and clearly very promising, even if it ends up as only a fighting game, and nothing beyond that. You have to remember, before Pokken, we had PokePark and Pokemon Rumble. That's it lol we've come a long way.



spemanig said:
Samus Aran said:
I would love it if Pokmon added a traditional mode and action mode to their main rpg games. Action mode is like this and traditional mode is turn based. People would be able to change on the fly.


I think the fact that Nintendo is paying an entire company to make a completely different Pokemon game with action combat like this pretty much guarantees that that will never happen, lol. I think the main games will forever remain turn based, while action stuff will be relegated to spin offs.

That being said, Pokken is by far Pokemon's most serious attempt at a game or a system like this, which is extremely exciting, and clearly very promising, even if it ends up as only a fighting game, and nothing beyond that. You have to remember, before Pokken, we had PokePark and Pokemon Rumble. That's it lol we've come a long way.

I know it will never happen, just think it would be cool. I'll be happy if Pokken Tournament becomes a main stay.



Samus Aran said:

I know it will never happen, just think it would be cool. I'll be happy if Pokken Tournament becomes a main stay.


For me, if Pokken can accomplish what I describe in the OP, it'll be equal to the main games. Unless Pokken absolutely stinks, there's no way I see the game not being a Pokemon staple from now on. It's doing the one thing that makes Pokemon so immortal. It's easy to get into for beginners, but there is clearly a ton of depth for advanced players.



Watching the footage more, the fact that each side has it's own "trainer" could be seen as very telling.



"enjoyed in a wider range"

Pfft, sounds casual as shtuff. On a serious note, I'd rather they focus on a full fledge, 3D pokemon Adventure for the Wii U. It doesn't even have to be all 700 something pokemons, just make the original 151 and I will buy 6 copies.



"Trick shot? The trick is NOT to get shot." - Lucian