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Forums - Politics Discussion - Freedom of speech is under attack and it could get worse

I'd argue that free speech is at an all-time high, primarily thanks to tools and tech like the WWW and smart phones.

That is why it is under attack, the establishment effectively had control over idea dissemination for decades thanks to their monopolising of the airwaves and education systems, in recent years they've started to lose that control, and now they're trying to fight back.

As far as I can see, though, the horse has already galloped from the field, and they're desperately trying to close the gate.



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IFireflyl said:

I get what you're saying, I do... but this just goes back to the slavery issue. There are other examples, I'm sure. Slavery is a big one, and it is one that can't be argued. Everyone knows it happened. People didn't get together and say, "You know what... it's probably not a good idea that we own another human being." They got together and said, "Make someone else work for me?? How much?!!?!?!!" It was a disgusting thing to do, and because their weren't laws against it people got on board. Because people weren't restricted they said, and did, what they wanted to do. A lot of people. A lot. So what happens if we let people freely speak out (publically) against the government/races/religions, and enough people agree? That kind of hate speech is what causes war and pandamonium. It causes people to turn on each other. It causes a rift between two or more entities. Your idea is great, but only if it works 100% of the time. We know that people are stubborn, so when stubborn people have opposite views, and they can publicly vent whatever they want it just causes problems. When it doesn't work, when people make the wrong choice, there is pain and suffering for generations. That kind of bad far outweighs any good.

That is absurd. Laws don't prevent things from happening. They are an attempt to enshrine in legal code what a society already values. Anywhere slavery has existed - and anywhere it continues to exist - as an institution, it has not been for a lack of laws. Instead, laws in such places have been on the side of slaveholders and restrict the speech of those opposed to slavery, just as any laws against speech will only restrict those who oppose the status quo.



badgenome said:
IFireflyl said:

I get what you're saying, I do... but this just goes back to the slavery issue. There are other examples, I'm sure. Slavery is a big one, and it is one that can't be argued. Everyone knows it happened. People didn't get together and say, "You know what... it's probably not a good idea that we own another human being." They got together and said, "Make someone else work for me?? How much?!!?!?!!" It was a disgusting thing to do, and because their weren't laws against it people got on board. Because people weren't restricted they said, and did, what they wanted to do. A lot of people. A lot. So what happens if we let people freely speak out (publically) against the government/races/religions, and enough people agree? That kind of hate speech is what causes war and pandamonium. It causes people to turn on each other. It causes a rift between two or more entities. Your idea is great, but only if it works 100% of the time. We know that people are stubborn, so when stubborn people have opposite views, and they can publicly vent whatever they want it just causes problems. When it doesn't work, when people make the wrong choice, there is pain and suffering for generations. That kind of bad far outweighs any good.

That is absurd. Laws don't prevent things from happening. They are an attempt to enshrine in legal code what a society already values. Anywhere slavery has existed - and anywhere it continues to exist - as an institution, it has not been for a lack of laws. Instead, laws in such places have been on the side of slaveholders and restrict the speech of those opposed to slavery, just as any laws against speech will only restrict those who oppose the status quo.


You aren't making my point any less valid.



 

IFireflyl said:

You aren't making my point any less valid.

That would be hard to do since it had no validity to begin with. You are pointing to an effect and calling it the cause.



badgenome said:
IFireflyl said:

You aren't making my point any less valid.

That would be hard to do since it had no validity to begin with. You are pointing to an effect and calling it the cause.


Just because you don't understand what I am saying doesn't make it invalid, or wrong. :)



 

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Err..... people didn't sit around a decide to enslave people because of free speech? How bizarre of a claim. Slavery has been a component of humanity since the dawn of time and continues to this day.

Slavery was a component of tribal life, and those who lived in tribes did not have free speech.



SamuelRSmith said:
Err..... people didn't sit around a decide to enslave people because of free speech? How bizarre of a claim. Slavery has been a component of humanity since the dawn of time and continues to this day.

Slavery was a component of tribal life, and those who lived in tribes did not have free speech.


Do you think that slavery just happened without anyone ever talking about? The discussions basically went, "This guy will sell me slaves. I don't see slaves as actual human beings. Who is with me?" And people jumped on board. So what happens when someone says publicly (and this is hyperbole), "Christians/Jews/Islams/etc aren't people! They're slaves to blah-blah-blah! Our teachings say that these people should be stoned to death!" If nobody agrees, no harm, no foul. If people start supporting that then we have wars/riots/etc. Read my previous post about true "freedom of speech" that really just turns people against others, and causes rifts in between two or more entities.

P.S.

SamuelRSmith said:
Slavery has been a component of humanity since the dawn of time and continues to this day.

It took one human to enslave another human, and no other humans to disagree with that motion, for this to have happened. People were truly free at one point. No laws, etc. But someone decided to enslave someone else, and the majority of people did not say, "That's not right! We won't let you get away with this!" It continuing to this day just shows that freedoms should be restricted, because people are selfish.



 

IFireflyl said:

Just because you don't understand what I am saying doesn't make it invalid, or wrong. :)

Just because it's invalid and wrong doesn't mean I didn't understand it. You think that laws shape society rather than society shaping laws. That's not hard to understand. It's just silly.



badgenome said:
IFireflyl said:

Just because you don't understand what I am saying doesn't make it invalid, or wrong. :)

Just because it's invalid and wrong doesn't mean I didn't understand it. You think that laws shape society rather than society shaping laws. That's not hard to understand. It's just silly.


I don't think that at all. You're just using tunnel vision. I am saying the laws are there to restrict certain "freedoms" for a reason. That reason is that there are bad people who will do bad things with that freedom. I am saying that we shouldn't have true freedom of anything (speech or otherwise) because there are people who would abuse that. You're interpretting my words poorly.



 

It is, but it is not what you think. Idiot comedians will be able to say whatever they silly hearts desiree, however, anyone exposing hoaxes and evil agendas from the Elite will be silent in no time.
It is all a big circus.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.