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Forums - Sports Discussion - American Football - What should be the penalty for the Patriots underinflated balls vs the Colts?

ohmylanta1003 said:
Let's not forget that the Colts only scored 7 MOTHERFUCKING POINTS!!! No team deserves to win only scoring 7 points in an entire game.

Let's us ot forget they punish things based off the principle that cheating is always cheating.



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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gd0kGhIcF4



chocoloco said:
ohmylanta1003 said:
Let's not forget that the Colts only scored 7 MOTHERFUCKING POINTS!!! No team deserves to win only scoring 7 points in an entire game.

Let's us ot forget they punish things based off the principle that cheating is always cheating.

I agree with this, there are ways to gain an advantage over an opponent that are acceptable , hiring talent, training talent ect.  Then there are ways of gaining an advantage over an opponent that are against the rules , juicing, deflating your balls below the acceptable limit ect.  That said when it comes to the Colts game, unacceptable advantage or not, the Colts were not going to win that game.  It makes me wonder though if deflating the balls  has been a season long practice how many times during regular season did this alleged practice save them from one or more turnovers while carrying the ball?  How much might that have changed their season? By my count there have been 4 games where they won by 7 points or less.



mornelithe said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gd0kGhIcF4


If you believe that video and their "conclussion" then why were the colts footballs all still within the acceptible PSI range? Those balls were in the exact same weather.  I'm not convinced they did cheat but I'm also not convinced they didn't.



The_Yoda said:
mornelithe said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gd0kGhIcF4


If you believe that video and their "conclussion" then why were the colts footballs all still within the acceptible PSI range? Those balls were in the exact same weather.  I'm not convinced they did cheat but I'm also not convinced they didn't.

What were the Colts ball pressure pre-game?  What were they at half-time?  And...given that we know that the pressure WOULD drop over time, given the difference in temperature from when they were inflated to halftime.  Exactly how did the Colts balls not change, at all?

You assume that the NFL (who's integrity is top-notch, right?) and the Refs (Also, impervious to integrity issues..apparently), aren't just playing cover your ass, because they didn't perform their due diligence pre-game.  We also know that the Ravens/Colts had concerns prior to this, and the NFL was aware of it.  So this was basically a sting operation run during the AFCCG, how exactly do they not have eyes on the balls at all times?

We cannot test for what we do not know.  Without hard numbers for the Colts balls, one can only theorize. 



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mornelithe said:
-SNIP

What were the Colts ball pressure pre-game?  What were they at half-time?  And...given that we know that the pressure WOULD drop over time, given the difference in temperature from when they were inflated to halftime.  Exactly how did the Colts balls not change, at all?

You assume that the NFL (who's integrity is top-notch, right?) and the Refs (Also, impervious to integrity issues..apparently), aren't just playing cover your ass, because they didn't perform their due diligence pre-game.  We also know that the Ravens/Colts had concerns prior to this, and the NFL was aware of it.  So this was basically a sting operation run during the AFCCG, how exactly do they not have eyes on the balls at all times?

We cannot test for what we do not know.  Without hard numbers for the Colts balls, one can only theorize. 

I agree, we don't know enough that's why I'm not calling them cheaters.  Another thing that crossed my mind was the Pats balls could have started out at the low threshold and the Dolts balls on the the high side, both could have dropped the same amount of PSI through the game but with different starting points it could have left the Colts still in compliance while the Pats balls fell below compliance. Like I said we don't know enough, I just wondered if they are found to be cheating what should their punishment be, thus the OP.  Personally IF they were cheating 25 grand (if you get caught) seems a very cheap price to pay for lowering your chances of turnovers.



The_Yoda said:
mornelithe said:

What were the Colts ball pressure pre-game?  What were they at half-time?  And...given that we know that the pressure WOULD drop over time, given the difference in temperature from when they were inflated to halftime.  Exactly how did the Colts balls not change, at all?

You assume that the NFL (who's integrity is top-notch, right?) and the Refs (Also, impervious to integrity issues..apparently), aren't just playing cover your ass, because they didn't perform their due diligence pre-game.  We also know that the Ravens/Colts had concerns prior to this, and the NFL was aware of it.  So this was basically a sting operation run during the AFCCG, how exactly do they not have eyes on the balls at all times?

We cannot test for what we do not know.  Without hard numbers for the Colts balls, one can only theorize. 

I agree, we don't know enough that's why I'm not calling them cheaters.  Another thing that crossed my mind was the Pats balls could have started out at the low threshold and the Dolts balls on the the high side, both could have dropped the same amount of PSI through the game but with different starting points it could have left the Colts still in compliance while the Pats balls fell below compliance. Like I said we don't know enough, I just wondered if they are found to be cheating what should their punishment be, thus the OP.  Personally IF they were cheating 25 grand (if you get caught) seems a very cheap price to pay for lowering your chances of turnovers.

And that's what's so frustrating about this situation.  Many media sources are already reporting as if the facts, evidence etc... are in and the NFL has already confirmed the Patriots guilt and fined them 25K, when in fact they've simply acknowledged 11 balls didn't meet the NFL's rules for pressure.  That video, actually provides reasonable doubt.  Which is a very key thing.  And I agree, not knowing the Colts pre-game pressures, we cannot say they didn't hand in over-inflated balls.  Just too much we don't know, and too many media mouthpieces clouding the issue.



mornelithe said:
The_Yoda said:
-snip

I agree, we don't know enough that's why I'm not calling them cheaters.  Another thing that crossed my mind was the Pats balls could have started out at the low threshold and the Dolts balls on the the high side, both could have dropped the same amount of PSI through the game but with different starting points it could have left the Colts still in compliance while the Pats balls fell below compliance. Like I said we don't know enough, I just wondered if they are found to be cheating what should their punishment be, thus the OP.  Personally IF they were cheating 25 grand (if you get caught) seems a very cheap price to pay for lowering your chances of turnovers.

And that's what's so frustrating about this situation.  Many media sources are already reporting as if the facts, evidence etc... are in and the NFL has already confirmed the Patriots guilt and fined them 25K, when in fact they've simply acknowledged 11 balls didn't meet the NFL's rules for pressure.  That video, actually provides reasonable doubt.  Which is a very key thing.  And I agree, not knowing the Colts pre-game pressures, we cannot say they didn't hand in over-inflated balls.  Just too much we don't know, and too many media mouthpieces clouding the issue.

@ bolded

Sad as it is to say welcome to modern American news reporting.



The_Yoda said:
mornelithe said:

And that's what's so frustrating about this situation.  Many media sources are already reporting as if the facts, evidence etc... are in and the NFL has already confirmed the Patriots guilt and fined them 25K, when in fact they've simply acknowledged 11 balls didn't meet the NFL's rules for pressure.  That video, actually provides reasonable doubt.  Which is a very key thing.  And I agree, not knowing the Colts pre-game pressures, we cannot say they didn't hand in over-inflated balls.  Just too much we don't know, and too many media mouthpieces clouding the issue.

@ bolded

Sad as it is to say welcome to modern American news reporting.


Indeed, American news is atrocious, it's why I listen to/read the BBC.



Here's an intriguing alternate theory, that very well could be a legit grey area. What if the Patriots purposefully use warmer air in the ball? Or purposefully inflate the ball in a warmer room? The point here is the rule itself dictates PSI at the time of handing it to the Ref, but there's absolutely nothing in the rules discussing air temperature. This would not only be nearly impossible to prove, but it would also be technically w/in the rules, due to the balls being at the proper PSI at gametime, over the course of the game, the internal temp would drop and with it the PSI.