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The Wii U is the only console to ever baffle me

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EvenLuck said:

danasider said:

Games like Super Mario 3d World or 8 player Smash (yes, 4 player Smash is online) could have definitely done better with an online experience considering they are multiplayer games.


Smash, I can agree with, because that's the core of the franchise. However, do tell me how Super Mario 3D World would be better with an online experience? 


It's a multiplayer game.



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McDonaldsGuy said:

- The Virtual Console STILL hasn't even reached a third of its potential

100% agree with this, where are the 64 and DS games they promised?



 

English is not my native language

EvenLuck said:

danasider said:

Games like Super Mario 3d World or 8 player Smash (yes, 4 player Smash is online) could have definitely done better with an online experience considering they are multiplayer games.


Smash, I can agree with, because that's the core of the franchise. However, do tell me how Super Mario 3D World would be better with an online experience? 


Instead of having 4 people required to be next to each other, 4 people could play co-op at the comfort of their own homes with strangers or friends. It's not something that would make or break the game, just the fact that a AAA first party top tier game like Super Mario 3d World doesn't offer it is disappointing.



McDonaldsGuy said:
MDMAlliance said:
danasider said:
 Games like Super Mario 3d World or 8 player Smash (yes, 4 player Smash is online) could have definitely done better with an online experience considering they are multiplayer games.

I don't think that making Super Mario 3D World online multiplayer would have made the difference between "Wii U still in a hole" and "Wii U saved," nor would it have made global lifetime sales increase any more than 1m total.  Online multiplayer for a 3D platformer may get some people excited and give it a little more life, but it's not like it's something that makes that much sense.

Even though Wind Waker looks awesome for WiiU, Nintendo got a lot of flack for not delivering a Zelda that looked like the 2012 demo.

Nintendo gets a lot of people saying shit about them regardless of what they do. 


Even though they have been selling well, Amiibos ARE basically collectables, as they don't have a game to really show off their use ala Disney Infinity or Skylanders and the uses they do have are corny.

Amiibos are pretty new, so their uses so far are quite limited, but I think their current uses are not so bad. Also they have already announced some FE amiibos unlocking new characters for Code Name STEAM.

Third party exclusives are alright, but many of the AAA games which a large portion of the gamer community wants to play are not on WiiU. Many of these games are even coming to PS360.

That doesn't really have anything to do with what OP was saying, though. It's a more complex issue that wont have any super simple fixes.

Even though new IPs are in development, they are mostly niche titles (Splattoon, Wonderful 101).

Wouldn't new IPs, by definition, be niche?  Unless you mean the genre, in which case... Splatoon isn't going for a niche genre.  

For all the WiiU apologists, even if you enjoy your console, even if it has many redeeming qualities (including arguably the best game lineup of 2014), many of these complaints shared by the OP, myself or people who don't own a WiiU are not any less valid. It's probably the reason why WiiU will continue to sell so badly until Nintendo finds a way to turn it around with their nextgen console. I'm still rooting for them. I just hope they see the error of their ways like Sony did with PS4 in relation to PS3's faults.

Except a lot of them are not valid since they simply aren't true or are super misleading... or some of them cannot be substantiated.  They can be stated as just opinions, but the whole "Everyone thinks X" or "The main reason X is the case is because of Y" are not true.

The kinds of things OP says has some truth hidden behind them, but are generally not true or don't make sense.




I have sales and public opinion to back up what I say though. I mean we can't deny the reception to the Wii U hasn't been great. The Dreamcast sold more than the Wii U! I know many people besides me who are agitated by it. Even EA got in on the hate with their April Fools joke (last year?). 

It's like with the early PS3 years, except Sony recognized it and started to change. Nintendo seems to be getting even MORE stubborn.

And the Super Mario 3D World point was more of them just being anti-online in 2013. They really need to understand putting online isn't going to rip families apart.

Imagine a Pokemon RPG (or MMORPG) with Amiibos as collectables. Could set the world on fire. Instead we get these corny little toys that actually don't affect gameplay at all. Can anyone tell me the function of an Amiibo? I am being serious too. Every video I have seen of them is pretty much the CPU playing the game or a couple new designs. 

Do you even remember what you were saying?  I'll show you: 
- The gamepad controller. Appeals to no one.  (Appeals to no one, you cannot prove that.  In fact, I can prove that you're wrong)
- Zelda cel shaded. Ugly graphics. (Ugly graphics is completely based off of opinion, and public opinion on the Internet really isn't a reliable source.  You used circumstancial evidence to back up your point, but nothing that definitively proves anything.)
- No console Pokemon. Seriously could sell a billion (I will just assume that you were intentionally exaggerating the number here, but I'm sure you already know that a console pokemon has been made several times already.)
- no 8 player online play? Sad. (This is most definitely not a selling point and is taking away from the fact that Smash has really good online)
- No new IPs. Splatoon is like their only new IP this gen. (First you say "no new IPs," then you mention a new IP.  You also forgot that The Wonderful 101 was a new IP this gen, and that the 3DS had quite a few new IPs as well.)
- Scaring away third parties. (Your reasoning for why this is the case is incorrect.  It's most definitely not as simple as you think it is.)



There are other problems with the things you've said in the OP, but those are the biggest ones that you didn't go back on.

By the way, I am not trying to say that the Wii U is doing fine the way it is, or that everything is good.  I'm pointing out that your argument is weak, full of holes, and has some straight up false information in it.  Many conclusions you come to are faulty, or unproveable.



McDonaldsGuy said:
EvenLuck said:

danasider said:

Games like Super Mario 3d World or 8 player Smash (yes, 4 player Smash is online) could have definitely done better with an online experience considering they are multiplayer games.


Smash, I can agree with, because that's the core of the franchise. However, do tell me how Super Mario 3D World would be better with an online experience? 


It's a multiplayer game

Ok, let me rephrase: why would Super Mario 3D World be better with an online experience? 



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McDonaldsGuy said:

I have sales and public opinion to back up what I say though. I mean we can't deny the reception to the Wii U hasn't been great. The Dreamcast sold more than the Wii U! 

Wii U will still easily outsell Dreamcast lifetime,  if only due to having more desirable franchises.



You can honestly look straight into Tim Lockwood's eyes and say that Zelda U's art style is, "ugly"?

 

cyberninja45 said:

Well he is right on most things.

The gamepad is the wiiu biggest problem, I can't believe people are still trying to defend it.

He is also totally right about super mario 3d world, I remember when I first saw the reveal and stream was sticking I honestly thought it was sequel for 3d land on the 3ds until I confirmed after it was wiiu the letdown was beyond measurable. Then I heard great things about the game especially here on vgchartz, I even remember someone saying it reaches the heights of mario galaxy.

I got the game along with my wiiu and I can tell you that I honestly believe people were genuinely lying about the game, anybody that says some BS about this being one of the best mario they ever played are lying out of their teeth, or never played any other mario.

This game is absolutely no way a mario galaxy, 64 nothing, its exactly what I thought of in the reveal a follow up to 3d land lazily ported across to the wiiu. I can tell you anybody that says otherwise are genuinely lying about the game.

Now I enjoyed 3d land on my 3ds but super mario 3d world does not belong on a home console ever, especially nintendo's first HD console.

Edit- The new zelda artstyle looks really good though.


And theres this guy.

There is so much more to 3D Worldthan a copy-pasted 3D Land. The multiple characters add just enough to the gameplay where I wanted to complete each stage with each one, maybe finding a different way of completing it. The level design was way more expansive and open compared to 3D Land's condensed focus for portable pleasure. It allowed for level design that was a lot more stimulating for a console game. It's also bursting with its own sense of originality all over the place.

And on the subject of it comparing to other 3D entries in the series, I don't think you can. 3D World's entire concept inherantly keeps it from being on the same scope as Mario Galaxy. 3D game with 2D archetypes. With that in mind, I like to think of 3D World on its own merits. I reccomend Somecallmejohnny's review of it. It might make you see it in a new perspective.

Also, calling people who liked a game that you don't "liars"? That's just unnecessary and close-minded. I'm surprised you didn't get yourself modded for that.

Wow, that got sidetracked from the OP...



3D world is the only mario I've loved since Mario 64... and my 3rd favorite mario game.

I have no reason to lie.

The agree with the OP mostly.

Zelda Being cell shaded imo, is partially because they have to imo. They can't do a realistic take because it would look terribly dated at release. Whereas, if they do the cell shading, they can hide behind



MDMAlliance said:


I don't think that making Super Mario 3D World online multiplayer would have made the difference between "Wii U still in a hole" and "Wii U saved," nor would it have made global lifetime sales increase any more than 1m total.  Online multiplayer for a 3D platformer may get some people excited and give it a little more life, but it's not like it's something that makes that much sense.

I'm not saying it would make or break the game or console. I just think the option of online co-op or online whatever is a lot less abundant and not as robust as it is in PS/XBox consoles. These things are little things that add up and when one console consistenly is behind on it, that becomes a problem.

Nintendo gets a lot of people saying shit about them regardless of what they do.

I agree that people will shit talk regardless, and I don't want to be part of the problem. I am just saying that in this case they did a bait and switch. Even the new Zelda (which also looks beautiful, I myself am partial to cel-shading and love games like DQXIII and Okami) isn't in the style of the tech demo which was specifically used to excite people for the new console. Nintendo needs to give people what they want is all.

Amiibos are pretty new, so their uses so far are quite limited, but I think their current uses are not so bad. Also they have already announced some FE amiibos unlocking new characters for Code Name STEAM.

That's cool, but to me the gameplan just isn't as tight or as organized as the competition's. At least until this new game you're talking about comes out. Even so, they will sell like gangbusters, because Nintendo has long refused to merchandise their IP and fans really want these collectables. That's great, but it doesn't offer much in terms of gameplay (again, so far). Then there's the problem of multiple figures coming out for one character. How will the non-smash Mario interactivity compare to the smash one? Will you have to buy multiple Mario's to get all the extra features (which currently are lackluster as is)?

That doesn't really have anything to do with what OP was saying, though. It's a more complex issue that wont have any super simple fixes.

OP said that Nintendo is "scaring away third parties." His argument may have centered on Nintendo's inability to secure 3rd party games with all the money they made last gen, but I was just going a little further with it to generically show the state of 3rd party games on WiiU. A lot of the blockbuster games people want can't be found on Nintendo's console, and that's a problem.

Wouldn't new IPs, by definition, be niche?  Unless you mean the genre, in which case... Splatoon isn't going for a niche genre.  

I don't think new IPs, by definition, are considered niche. Niche concerns being focus on a small specific market group, at least as far as I know the definition to be (but that may be a little different for others). Platinum games tend to develop niche titles (again, this does not reflect the quality of the titles, just their lack of mass appeal). Something like Destiny or Watchdogs, even if inferior in quality to Platinum Games' offerings, are new IPs that have mass appeal, and the hype train behind them, the marketing and the payoff in sales show this.

Except a lot of them are not valid since they simply aren't true or are super misleading... or some of them cannot be substantiated.  They can be stated as just opinions, but the whole "Everyone thinks X" or "The main reason X is the case is because of Y" are not true.

The kinds of things OP says has some truth hidden behind them, but are generally not true or don't make sense.

I agree that some of the statements are blanket statements and made with bias. So are mine, yours and everyone else's to a certain degree. However, I'd argue that sales and current trends back up a lot of what the OP has to say, even if his/her opinions aren't expressed so eloquently. I, myself, touched on some of the issues I personally believe the WiiU to have that are either directly or indirectly related to the OP. I've tried to express them in a more unbiased manner (I really do want Nintendo to succeed). I just think that these little things that nitpickers like me or the OP observe add up and are a reason the WiiU, despite offering a great library of games and unparalled first party titles, will be perceived by the non-WiiU owner as a substandard console in today's day and age. Nintendo has the money and the talent to deal with these and other issues that are holding them back. They should take a page from Sony (and Microsoft with all the changes they've made with the X1), get over their stubbornness, and get with the times.







ishiki said:

Zelda Being cell shaded imo, is partially because they have to imo. They can't do a realistic take because it would look terribly dated at release. Whereas, if they do the cell shading, they can hide behind


I was going to say that too. Twilight Princess, while still a good looking game, looks dated in comparison to Windwaker and Skyward Sword, because of the cel-shading. When done right, like in these cases, cel-shaded games will always look good.