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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 1080p30fps vs 720p60fps

 

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1080p 30fps 258 37.34%
 
720p 60fps 393 56.87%
 
lol vidu gamez r 4 chums 36 5.21%
 
Total:687

It's like comparing small fries with ketchup (720p60fps) vs large fries without ketchup (1080p30fps)



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curl-6 said:
sc94597 said:
curl-6 said:
sc94597 said:

That isn't a very fair comparison of course. You'll need to look at them at different pixel densities (on a larger screen) to get a better idea of the difference. 

I mean on my 22 inch monitor I can't tell a huge difference between (1600x900) 900p and 1080p at 2 feet away for most games, albeit there is a difference in blur if I try to look for it. On my 55 inch HDTV the difference is like night and day at 5-7 feet away, and that is only 900p vs. 1080p, not 720p vs. 1080p. 

You can zoom the images to fill your screen if you like, that's what I did.

I mean you'll have to be zooming on an HDTV to notice a huge difference. Pixel density is just as important as pixel count for clarity. It is kind of like if somebody were trying to see the difference between say 30 fps and 60 fps on a 30hz monitor. Of course you won't see a huge difference, if anything at all. That is probably why people see a larger difference between 480p and 720p than 720p and 1080p despite the proportional increase (3 vs. 2.25 times) in pixels being significant in both cases. 480p was already dated for the size/distances from TV ration, whereas a lot of people have TV's that don't entail a significant ability to perceive the change in clarity for the latter case. 

On my TV, I can switch between 720p and 1080p games without finding the difference conspicuous. I game on a 32" screen, which I generally sit 2 meters back from.

That is kind of like saying I can switch between 30 fps and 60 fps games without finding the difference conspicuous. It might be true for some cases it might not be true for others. The real point is though: for everything else controlled (same game, same monitor/tv) the difference should be quite noticeable. In the end it depends on the game. Some 720p games have excellent image quality because they reduce artifacts and aliasing with a plethora of different techniques. Some 1080p games have horrendous image quality because they don't do these things. There are many other factors to consider of course. But I think the 30fps vs. 60 fps and 720p vs. 1080p (or any other resolution comparison) are very similar. Here is an example of a situation when I knew the resolution was off right away. Dark Souls for the PC was locked to 720p 30fps by the developer. I didn't notice that before I started playing. I noticed the game was blurry and it had horrible aliasing for a 1080p game (I was playing it on my 15.6 inch laptop which can output 1080p.) I did a quick search and found out that it was indeed locked to 720p and I needed a mod to play it at 1080p (or in between.) I applied the mod, and instantly I noticed a clearer picture and not as much aliasing. I did notice the lower framerate too, but I figured it was because my laptop wasn't a high-end laptop and it was running at its best (locked 30fps.) Everybody is different though, and have different abilities to see the differences. 

 



sc94597 said:

That is kind of like saying I can switch between 30 fps and 60 fps games without finding the difference conspicuous. It might be true for some cases it might not be true for others. The real point is though: for everything else controlled (same game, same monitor/tv) the difference should be quite noticeable. In the end it depends on the game. Some 720p games have excellent image quality because they reduce artifacts and aliasing with a plethora of different techniques. Some 1080p games have horrendous image quality because they don't do these things. There are many other factors to consider of course. But I think the 30fps vs. 60 fps and 720p vs. 1080p (or any other resolution comparison) are very similar. Here is an example of a situation when I knew the resolution was off right away. Dark Souls for the PC was locked to 720p 30fps by the developer. I didn't notice that before I started playing. I noticed the game was blurry and it had horrible aliasing for a 1080p game (I was playing it on my 15.6 inch laptop which can output 1080p.) I did a quick search and found out that it was indeed locked to 720p and I needed a mod to play it at 1080p (or in between.) I applied the mod, and instantly I noticed a clearer picture and not as much aliasing. I did notice the lower framerate too, but I figured it was because my laptop wasn't a high-end laptop and it was running at its best (locked 30fps.) Everybody is different though, and have different abilities to see the differences. 

I never argued tht this was anything other than my opinion.
30fps to 60fps is the much more impactful difference to me, so given the choice I would almost always opt for 720p/60fps over 1080p/30fps. Granted, some games benefit from framerate more than others, but those are the kinds of games I tend to play mostly;  platformers, shooters, and racers.



Skidmore said:
NitroCrafter14 said:
Except for twitch shooters, 1080p30 as at least on the big screen I notice 720p to 1080p a lot more than 30fps to 60fps.

Is that humanly possible?


Yes, at least on the TV. I have a 40" and sit only 5 feet away, and do notice 60fps compared to 30, but it isn't night and day. I don't know if it is the motion blur or the controller response or what, but it is much different than the PC, where I can barely stand anything below 40, and 30 to 60 really is night and day. That being said, 30 is still fine for slow paced games, but I prefer 60 for twitch shooters, even on console (reaction times). While sitting relatively close to my TV 720p looks blurry compared to 1080p. I could stand it last-gen, but oddly not now.



torok said:
Nem said:
 


If it was at 60fps you would be able to spot things in the distance very easily because you would have twice the number of frames beeing sent to your brain.

Also, saying its "blurred" is overstating it. Its still as good as what we have had if not better than last gen resolution. I'm sure no one was unable to see the games in their TV's and certainly didnt consider them "blurred".

If you think you make more logic lets aproach it: Your reason to have higher resolution are 1. shooters and 2. only the moments where you need to snipe really far away targets. 60fps improves all of your gameplay. Its not just one specific instance in a single genre. Yeah, logic.


Having 60 fps will help you to spot thing on distance because you have "twice the frames sent to your brain"? That's beyond ridiculous. It can help in reducing input lag and smoothing the animations, but seeing objects in the screen is a image quality characteristic. And image quality involves resolution, not framerate.

Yes, it is blurred. There isn't a way to upscale 720p to 1080p without losing image information because you don't have a direct correlation between pixels (unlike 1080p and 4K or 540p and 1080p). You aren't unable to see your games, but you will se them blurred and with aliasing problems.

Yes, it's logic. It's image clarity. It's about seeing better what you are doing. Seeing better the whole game. Shooter are just one single example. Being able to see far things and to see close things without blur improves your experience as much as smooth animations.


I guess your games are very static if nothing moves. That is the only instance in wich resolution would make things easier to spot than more frames.

See even if instead of 4 pixels, you have 8, that little dot wont be bigger than it was with 4. For you to spot it better, you have to be able to detect its movement or look really closely at the screen. if things are that tiny, chances are the game will give you a zoom in option that trivialises the resolution. I am actually quite appauled at the sugestion. These are not paintings or fotographs you know? :P



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Nem said:


I guess your games are very static if nothing moves. That is the only instance in wich resolution would make things easier to spot than more frames.

See even if instead of 4 pixels, you have 8, that little dot wont be bigger than it was with 4. For you to spot it better, you have to be able to detect its movement or look really closely at the screen. if things are that tiny, chances are the game will give you a zoom in option that trivialises the resolution. I am actually quite appauled at the sugestion. These are not paintings or fotographs you know? :P


It's not about pixel quantity. It's pure math. 720p can't be scaled to 1080p. You have to interpolate pixels and aproximate the image. You are losing information in the image. It becomes blurry and aliased. 30 to 60 fps won't help me to detect a movement. Both are moving. Unless it is crazy fast at 2 meters of the player, it won't make difference.

It's not like "I have 4 pixels instead of 8". It's like "I had 1 pixel and now I need 2". You can't represent it. Let's see:

- 540p: each pixels will occupy 4 pixels in a 1080p screen.

- 720p: each pixel will be interpolated between around 4 pixels. You will lose image information and quality.

I'm appaled at you and all guy here suggesting 1080p won't make difference except on giant TVs. I have a 40', sit at 2.5m and can see it clearly as day. Even 900p with software upscaling is different of 1080p. 720p with no upscaling actually is easily noticeable. Anyone that can't spot the difference needs glasses (mine are recent and correct, of course).



torok said:
Nem said:
 


I guess your games are very static if nothing moves. That is the only instance in wich resolution would make things easier to spot than more frames.

See even if instead of 4 pixels, you have 8, that little dot wont be bigger than it was with 4. For you to spot it better, you have to be able to detect its movement or look really closely at the screen. if things are that tiny, chances are the game will give you a zoom in option that trivialises the resolution. I am actually quite appauled at the sugestion. These are not paintings or fotographs you know? :P


It's not about pixel quantity. It's pure math. 720p can't be scaled to 1080p. You have to interpolate pixels and aproximate the image. You are losing information in the image. It becomes blurry and aliased. 30 to 60 fps won't help me to detect a movement. Both are moving. Unless it is crazy fast at 2 meters of the player, it won't make difference.

It's not like "I have 4 pixels instead of 8". It's like "I had 1 pixel and now I need 2". You can't represent it. Let's see:

- 540p: each pixels will occupy 4 pixels in a 1080p screen.

- 720p: each pixel will be interpolated between around 4 pixels. You will lose image information and quality.

I'm appaled at you and all guy here suggesting 1080p won't make difference except on giant TVs. I have a 40', sit at 2.5m and can see it clearly as day. Even 900p with software upscaling is different of 1080p. 720p with no upscaling actually is easily noticeable. Anyone that can't spot the difference needs glasses (mine are recent and correct, of course).


I think you are misunderstanding and exagerating. The TV thing is that most people dont have huge TV's to even be able to tell the difference.Even on big TV's its difficult to tell the difference unless you sit really close to it, wich is bad for your eye sight.

And more fps obviously makes you see movement better, but theres no point in furthering that point.



Nem said:


I think you are misunderstanding and exagerating. The TV thing is that most people dont have huge TV's to even be able to tell the difference.Even on big TV's its difficult to tell the difference unless you sit really close to it, wich is bad for your eye sight.

And more fps obviously makes you see movement better, but theres no point in furthering that point.


Sorry. I can see the difference in a 40' screen at more than 2m. It's a pretty reasonably sized TV and probably the smallest anyone usually buys (except 32' because they lack room for a bigger set). I have a PS3, where most games are 720p and a PS4, where most games are 1080p, hooked to the same TV, with 2 identical HDMI cables (Monster ones, good quality). I don't have to look close to see the jaggies on the picture.

If you are talking about a 22' TV, something that isn't common because 32'+ TVs have good prices, I've previously played in one and it's terrible to see anything at a distance, so even playing becomes a bad experience. In a normal sized TV (32', 40') at a decent distance (2-3m), anyone who is 20/20 can see the difference because it's clear as water. Even on my PC, with a 22' monitor and sitting at 1.5M, it's easily noticeable.

Saying that you can't spot the difference between 720p to 1080p in these conditions is as ridiculous as saying that you can't differentiate 30 to 60fps. Anyone with a normal vision can.



torok said:

I'm appaled at you and all guy here suggesting 1080p won't make difference except on giant TVs. 

That's a strong word.

Why does it bother you so much?



curl-6 said:
torok said:

I'm appaled at you and all guy here suggesting 1080p won't make difference except on giant TVs. 

That's a strong word.

Why does it bother you so much?

 

Because I see people claiming they don't see a difference that is clear to defend a personal agenda. I prefer resolution over framerate, but I'm not claiming that I can't differentiate 30 to 60 fps, because I can. It's the same for resolution, everybody with a healthy vision can see the difference.

Well, I guess my 40' TV now is a gigantic screen for the standards of this thread. I wonder that if I bought a 55 or 60' set it would be defined as gargantuan.