SamuelRSmith said: Nkh3 said: Well, the economy of Greece shrunk by 1/4 in 5 years, That has never happened nowhere else.(in time of peace that is). 27% is the official unemployment rate, however, there are more people without a job (and that's not counting kids or retired people) than with a job.In a country with 10 million people, you can understand that's a lot of misery. Also, the poverty rate is the 2nd highest in all of Europe, aproximatelly 70% of people under 25 years old are unemployed and and and ..... problems never end.I live them every day cause I actually live in one of the poorest areas in Greece. There are not Favellas here but you get my point. Anything worse than what Greece is facing right now IS destruction,If what I named above is not considered a destruction allready. However, not many people here think that anything willl change for the best, despite what most vote for. Myself, I would just like to not be unemployed when I graduate. ( not that I believe that my wish will come tru.) Aim higher. Look abroad. If you're young enough to make decisions regarding your education, get yourself certifications in English language (TOEFL, GRE), study a degree of which there is global demand (ie, Science, Technology, Engineering, Maths), if you can afford, do a Masters at a foreign University, and an internship in the same country. South-East Asia is your best bet: chronic labour shortage and easy immigration laws. Here in Hong Kong, if you're a native English speaker (I know you're not), they'll basically give you a visa because they're so short-staffed on English teachers. I've heard stories of people coming here on holiday, and having job offers before they've gone home. Hell, I probably get 2 or 3 invitations to interviews every other week through LinkedIn and I'm not even looking.

he can work in the EU without visa or anything, and its not just germany that needs highly skilled workers, all of northern europe needs well educated people, and its much closer to home, and the chances that he could get back to greece when the economy is turning arent that low, european companys will need a lot of staff in southern europe when the economy turns.

SamuelRSmith said: Nkh3 said: Well, the economy of Greece shrunk by 1/4 in 5 years, That has never happened nowhere else.(in time of peace that is). 27% is the official unemployment rate, however, there are more people without a job (and that's not counting kids or retired people) than with a job.In a country with 10 million people, you can understand that's a lot of misery. Also, the poverty rate is the 2nd highest in all of Europe, aproximatelly 70% of people under 25 years old are unemployed and and and ..... problems never end.I live them every day cause I actually live in one of the poorest areas in Greece. There are not Favellas here but you get my point. Anything worse than what Greece is facing right now IS destruction,If what I named above is not considered a destruction allready. However, not many people here think that anything willl change for the best, despite what most vote for. Myself, I would just like to not be unemployed when I graduate. ( not that I believe that my wish will come tru.) Aim higher. Look abroad. If you're young enough to make decisions regarding your education, get yourself certifications in English language (TOEFL, GRE), study a degree of which there is global demand (ie, Science, Technology, Engineering, Maths), if you can afford, do a Masters at a foreign University, and an internship in the same country. South-East Asia is your best bet: chronic labour shortage and easy immigration laws. Here in Hong Kong, if you're a native English speaker (I know you're not), they'll basically give you a visa because they're so short-staffed on English teachers. I've heard stories of people coming here on holiday, and having job offers before they've gone home. Hell, I probably get 2 or 3 invitations to interviews every other week through LinkedIn and I'm not even looking.

Logical suggestions, however nobody wants to go away from his family and friends, cause you know...without them you are empty.

I have certificate in English, and I actually study in the civil engineering school of NTUA (National Technical University of Anthens) which is considered the best in Greece and one of the best in Europe.Still, I probably won't be able to find a job here, and even if I do it will be for 400-500 euros and 8 hours in the best case scenario. (Cause people work much more than that, those who do have a job). And I worked my butt off to get into NTUA.

What I'm saying is that, if I don't have a hope of having a normal life here, then who has? It just shoudn't be like this.

(at least there are no studing fees in the University so I'm good for now.)

generic-user-1 said: he can work in the EU without visa or anything, and its not just germany that needs highly skilled workers, all of northern europe needs well educated people, and its much closer to home, and the chances that he could get back to greece when the economy is turning arent that low, european companys will need a lot of staff in southern europe when the economy turns.

You do realise that we've been waiting for the economy to "turn" for almost 7 years now, and a lot of economic indicators are pointing toward a new global recession coming up within the next couple of years?

To steal a quote: there will be no economic recovery, prepare yourself accordingly.

Japan's been waiting for their economy to "turn" for 20 odd years, so don't hold your breath.

But, yeah, go anywhere where you can find work and build savings (another reason to come to SE Asia, taxes so low anybody can easily build savings). If you can do it being "closer to home" sure. Just don't bank on that factor being of any benefit.

Nkh3 said: Logical suggestions, however nobody wants to go away from his family and friends, cause you know...without them you are empty. I have certificate in English, and I actually study in the civil engineering school of NTUA (National Technical University of Anthens) which is considered the best in Greece and one of the best in Europe.Still, I probably won't be able to find a job here, and even if I do it will be for 400-500 euros and 8 hours in the best case scenario. (Cause people work much more than that, those who do have a job). And I worked my butt off to get into NTUA. What I'm saying is that, if I don't have a hope of having a normal life here, then who has? It just shoudn't be like this. (at least there are no studing fees in the University so I'm good for now.)

I understand that pain, it was what scared me most about leaving. You'll soon find that international flights are fairly cheap, so you can go home once or twice a year with ease, and modern technology bridges the other gaps. I'm still in touch with all my friends and family from home through Facebook.

On top of that, you'll always make new friends in the place you arrive. Friends with careers and connections, friends who will open doors for you. Friends from all over the world who'll introduce you to crazy new foods and convince you to go off on random weekend-long holidays out in the Philippines, or Korea, or Skiing in Japan.

I had one friend who offered me the chance to see North Korea. I baulked at the last minute though, the very thought of the place sends chills down my spine.

SamuelRSmith said: generic-user-1 said: he can work in the EU without visa or anything, and its not just germany that needs highly skilled workers, all of northern europe needs well educated people, and its much closer to home, and the chances that he could get back to greece when the economy is turning arent that low, european companys will need a lot of staff in southern europe when the economy turns. You do realise that we've been waiting for the economy to "turn" for almost 7 years now, and a lot of economic indicators are pointing toward a new global recession coming up within the next couple of years? To steal a quote: there will be no economic recovery, prepare yourself accordingly. Japan's been waiting for their economy to "turn" for 20 odd years, so don't hold your breath. But, yeah, go anywhere where you can find work and build savings (another reason to come to SE Asia, taxes so low anybody can easily build savings). If you can do it being "closer to home" sure. Just don't bank on that factor being of any benefit.

the ecomony in greece will turn at somepoint, when the instability is gone europe will make greece its factory for cheap stuff, the wages are allready lower than in china, and its a lot closer than china. northern europe is doing fine atm, and even states like france have way better chances for a real recovery than the us. on the other hand, working 10 years or so in SE asia could be way cooler than working in a small town n southern germany or denmark, or sweden.

Well, having the UK and Switzerland, and also Norway and Denmark in the monetary union wouldn't hurt. :)

generic-user-1 said: the ecomony in greece will turn at somepoint (1), when the instability is gone europe will make greece its factory for cheap stuff (2), the wages are allready lower than in china (3), and its a lot closer than china. northern europe is doing fine atm (4), and even states like france have way better chances for a real recovery than the us (5). on the other hand, working 10 years or so in SE asia could be way cooler than working in a small town n southern germany or denmark, or sweden (6).

(1) Not disputing that. But "somepoint" could be a lifetime away. A lost generation.

(2) Instability seems to be increasing, that's why the Euro is sliding recently. Again, one day stability will return to the region, but there's no saying when.

(3) Unfortunately, it requires a lot more than low wages. For many decades, the United States was the largest exporter in the world with the highest wages in the world, wages are only a tiny, tiny piece of the puzzle. There needs to be easy access to capital, young workforce, business-friendly regulatory and tax environment, the EU itself makes the last two things impossible. And Greek businesses won't have access to capital for, well, generations. Not only does this crisis need to end, but there's also going to have to be a whole lot of confidence-growing and a whole bunch of savings going on. Capital comes from savings, that's the true secret to Asian success. People here save up to a third of their incomes.

(4) The economies of Northern Europe may be chugging along, but they have a lot of fundamental problems that are yet to rear their ugly heads. Large sovereign debts, and huge unfunded liabilities. These things will be a drag on these economies in the near future.

(5) Large population of French expats here in Hong Kong. All share similar mindsets - they love their home country, but they'll never go back. These are the smartest people that France are producing, and they are fleeing the country. They do not believe in the future of France, and there's little evidence suggesting they should. French politics seems to be driven more by jealousy and greed than by sound economic policy. France's best and brightest don't want to pay half of their incomes to the tax man.

(6) Agreed.

Nkh3 said: Logical suggestions, however nobody wants to go away from his family and friends, cause you know...without them you are empty. I have certificate in English, and I actually study in the civil engineering school of NTUA (National Technical University of Anthens) which is considered the best in Greece and one of the best in Europe.Still, I probably won't be able to find a job here, and even if I do it will be for 400-500 euros and 8 hours in the best case scenario. (Cause people work much more than that, those who do have a job). And I worked my butt off to get into NTUA. What I'm saying is that, if I don't have a hope of having a normal life here, then who has? It just shoudn't be like this. (at least there are no studing fees in the University so I'm good for now.)

If you're an engineer, then employment shouldn't be a problem. You'll have to leave Greece though and look elsewhere in Europe. And if you can't find a job there, then apply for immigration to Canada! Engineers are in demand and immigrating here isn't difficult. 

generic-user-1 said: solar and windenergie work realy fine. germany hs 20%, other states have even higher rates(not not so muc heavy industrie, so the consumption is a bit different).

As I often repeat this, it works "really fine" as long as there's substantial amount of readily available and cheap (in terms of EROEI) energy, which it leeches onto. We have passed traditional peak oil somewhere in 2000s, the growth past that time has been based upon hard to excavate and pricey oils like shale, artic, tar sands etc., which will likely to peak very soon as well given current price. It's extremely unrelaistic if not naive to expect alternative energy to be a good replacement for that. Just as illustration -- Sigmar Gabriel: "Wir stehen knapp vor dem Scheitern der Energiewende".

Make yourself and the world a favour -- if you see a green energy sectarian or whoever lobbies for that crap -- punch him in the head until he gets smarter and abandons his illusions.

wangjingwanjia said: Well, having the UK and Switzerland, and also Norway and Denmark in the monetary union wouldn't hurt. :)

I doubt the UK will ever join the Euro. If anything our relationship with the EU will become looser.