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Forums - Politics Discussion - China has just banned the burqa in its biggest Muslim city

Samus Aran on 12 January 2015
padib said:
Ka-pi96 said:
padib said:

"and authorities in the Xinjiang city of Karamy barred anyone wearing burqas, niqabs, hijabs or simply “large beards” from taking public buses."

That's sad. Fundamental Islam can lead to violent fanaticism, but not all fundamentalists are fanatics.

It's another sign of increased religious intolerance around the world, and as a Christian I am against it, even if it doesn't affect my personal religion. Freedom is a value of many progressive countries. But none will stand against this.

It is pretty harsh (especially the large beards part), but it makes sense. If you think of it as separate from the religion then people covering their faces when they are in the streets isn't a good thing. They could very well be robbers or something, so from a security standpoint it does make sense.

A question of national security is legitimate. However, that puts into question the legitimacy of masqued carnivals such as Halloween, or living in very cold places such as the arctic due to having to be fully covered in the face.

As for beards and burqas, it is pure intolerance because a beard never was a security concern when it comes to recognising the face of a person.

@Kerotan. I'm confused as to how you think that people who are not religious have not killed for similarly illegitimate reason, and how people of religion have not defended the cause of the oppressed at least at some point in history.

Nowhere in the Quran does it say women need to wear burqas. 



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Samus Aran on 12 January 2015
padib said:
Samus Aran said:

Most religious intolerance comes from other religions, e.g. muslims against christians and vice versa. 

The problem with most religions these days is twofold: 

- They're monotheistic, i.e. there can only be one God.

- They have a universal message, i.e. everyone not following their God will burn in hell.

Sorry for not liking those religions padib! 

Of course I'm merely talking about the institutions behind said religions now. Not every Christian, Jew* or Muslim thinks this way. 

* The beliefs of Judaism considering afterlife are more complicated than Christianity and Islam though. 

If we look at this thread alone as the best common evidence, we already see that most of the "good riddance" type opinion is from the non-religious.

So far, the most religious intolerance I have been whitnessing is from the non-religious.

As for killing by religious people, look no further than ISIS, they are muslims killing muslims. It's not a question of religion here, and mostly never is. It usually is a question of politics.

Islam is not one religion, there are different movements, hence muslims killing muslims. It's religious intolerance against religious people. Muslims are being killed by other Muslims, who just so happen to have different ideas. Of course it is also a question of politics, but that's not the only factor that's at play here. 

IS are also killing Christians in the Middle-East and other religions. 

There has been much more conflict in this world between different movements of religion than religion vs. atheists. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. I don't see atheists blowing up mosques, churches or synagogues... 



WhiteEaglePL on 12 January 2015
padib said:
WhiteEaglePL said:
It's understandable in my view and in China's view.

Which part, the burqas, the hijabs or the beards being frowned upon?


All except beards, unless the beards all look the same....



Samus Aran on 12 January 2015
padib said:
Samus Aran said:

Nowhere in the Quran does it say women need to wear burqas. 

If they want to wear the burqa as an expression of the religion, be it in the Quran or in the Hadith, it's their expression of religion.

A security issue is legitimate, but why frown upon the beards and hijabs? It becomes clearer that the issue is one of fear, paranoia and intolerance.

The origin of the burqa is cultural, not religious. 



WolfpackN64 on 12 January 2015

I can see for visability's sake why they would ban the niqab. But so long as a burqa isn't worn by a public official, I see no harm in it. Also, preventing people from enjoying their religious holidays, in this case the Ramadan is just plain wrong.



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Materia-Blade on 12 January 2015

that's great.



Samus Aran on 12 January 2015
padib said:
Samus Aran said:

Islam is not one religion, there are different movements, hence muslims killing muslims. It's religious intolerance against religious people.

IS are also killing Christians in the Middle-East and other religions. 

There has been much more conflict in this world between different movements of religion than religion vs. atheists. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. I don't see atheists blowing up mosques, churches or synagogues... 

They (non-religious) may not express their intolerance with violence, but they express it with repression, fear and paranoia. With suppression and segregation.

ISIS are killing christians, but my point is that they are killing Shia. These are muslims. The issue is not one of religion. It's an issue of politics. The shia and sunni in the area ISIS is controlling have been tribes at odds, one repressing the other for political reasons.

This needs to be fully understood before putting the blame on religion.

I have a Masters Degree in History, specialising in antiquity and Islam...

Many factors are at play in the Middle East, religion is a very important one of them. Islam isn't just Shia and Sunni, it runs much deeper than that. 

In the Middle East religion and politics go hand in hand by the way... Why seperate them? Do you know what khalif means? 



MoHasanie on 12 January 2015

Wow, that's not good. They shouldn't ban what people choose to wear especially if its related to their beliefs. I mean, I'm not a supporter of the burqa, but I'm against banning people from wearing a scarf.



    

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Samus Aran on 12 January 2015
Ka-pi96 said:
Samus Aran said:

Islam is not one religion, there are different movements, hence muslims killing muslims. It's religious intolerance against religious people. Muslims are being killed by other Muslims, who just so happen to have different ideas. Of course it is also a question of politics, but that's not the only factor that's at play here. 

IS are also killing Christians in the Middle-East and other religions. 

There has been much more conflict in this world between different movements of religion than religion vs. atheists. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. I don't see atheists blowing up mosques, churches or synagogues... 

What about Hitler?

Hitler was a racist. He hated Jews as a race more than he hated Judaism as a religion.

Just like he hated Russians, not because they were orthodox Christians. There are also no sources that prove Hitler wanted to eredicate Christianity in Germany. 



DanneSandin on 12 January 2015

I do not support these kind of things. A woman (or man) should be free to wear whatever they want; if they wanna wear burqa, then go right a head. Making burqas in particular illegal is just wrong, but what do you expect from a communist dictatorship? Now, if they were to ban ALL kind of face masks, then that would be ok, because then you wouldn't target a specific religion/culture.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

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